Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Adeptus Custodes

[GenerationTerrorist]

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

Custodes definitely look weaker against tanks, even with rerolling Axes.

 

I think most people are confident though that there isn't a class of infantry they can't carve through with ease.

 

And the legacy of Forge World doing heavy lifting makes many players at ease. But as a Codex release, the Land Raider is pretty much the only option, since melta weapons are so weak against vehicles nowadays.

 

I would be worried if not for the Forge World Dreads I love, but I'm interested to see how GW squares this hole for the Codex. 

 

Hopefully we get plastic Telemons, etc.

Or can use the HH Contemptor with all the options.

[CL_Mission]

35 minutes ago, GenerationTerrorist said:

 

Hopefully we get plastic Telemons, etc.

Or can use the HH Contemptor with all the options.

It would be quite strange it they don't get access to the new options on the Contemptor, the old kit has been discontinued after all. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

They did say new models were coming with all codex releases if i recall correctly, so perhaps some of tge forgeworld range will transition next spring.

[Captain Idaho]

44 minutes ago, GenerationTerrorist said:

 

Hopefully we get plastic Telemons, etc.

Or can use the HH Contemptor with all the options.

 

I will literally buy 2 straight away (I already have 1 in resin) just because the only thing better than a Dreadnought is a giant  Dreadnought!

[TrawlingCleaner]

19 hours ago, Hellex_The_Thanatar said:

Literally no range game previewed so that's not feeling awesome. Slayer of tyrants I was hoping for a +1 to wound or something since str9 against anything with armour over 10 is yeouch. 

 

Not to be that guy and "Ummm-actually" but, full rerolls to wound and +1 to Wound work out to be statistically, essentially, the same except for 2+ and 6+ to wound. Interesting, the more dice you roll, the better rerolls become:

 

Spoiler

6 wounds Vs Double Toughness

Full Rerolls: 1 Wound (0.8333 chance of rolling a 6 on 5 dice)

+1 to wound: 2 Wounds

 

6 wounds Vs Higher toughness:

Full Rerolls: 3 wounds (2 wounds, rerolls gains an extra 1)

+1 to wound: 3 wounds

 

6 wounds Vs Same Toughness:

Full Rerolls: 4 wounds (3 wounds, rerolls gains and extra 1.5)

+1 to wound: 4 wounds

 

6 wounds vs Lower Toughness:

Full Rerolls: 5 wounds (4 wounds, rerolls gains 1.33)

+1 to wound: 5 wounds

 

6 wounds Vs Half Toughness:

Full Rerolls: 5 wounds (0.8333 chance of rolling 2+ on 1 dice)

+1 to wound: 5 Wounds

 

 

30 wounds Vs Higher Toughness:

Full Rerolls: 16 wounds (10 wounds, rerolls gains 6.66 )

+1 to wound: 15 wounds

 

30 wounds Vs Same Toughness:

Full Rerolls: 22 wounds (15 wounds, rerolls gain 7.5)

+1 to wound: 20 wounds

 

30 wounds Vs Lower Toughness:

Full Rerolls: 26 wounds (20wounds, rerolls gain 6.66)

+1 to wound: 25 wounds

 

The numbers grow exponentially the more dice you roll

 

Oath of Moment and Votann's Eye of the Ancestor tier 2 abilities essentially work out to be the same statistically wise until you start rolling more dice (40 boltgun shots get more use out of full rerolls than +1).

Additionally Sustained hits [1] works out to be +1 to hit for anything that has BS3+ or worse, Sustained hits [2] is +2 to hit for anything BS4+ or worse.

Obviously all that doesn't account for actual dice rolling, upwards and downwards spikes etc but at least on paper, they're essentially the same

 

Phew, now I need a cold shower!

[prava]

12 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

 

Thing is, Eldar literally negate the chief component of the game - random chance using dice.

 

GW have done it, so limiting psychic powers isn't far fetched. And all the armies that have psychic powers can attack the Adeptus Custodes units with them instead of Sisters of Silence, using their Mortal and mundane weapons to fell the T3 Sisters.

 

It isn't a balancing factor really. Though I'd agree that we shouldn't see an aura of prevention of psychic powers and abilities, just not let them affect the SoS.

 

 

 

But by doing it they improve their own rolls, they are not negating your own. So, they are not negating your saves, or FNP, or making you fail charges. They improve their own.

 

Limiting psychic powers is precisely what GW is doing with Custodes. They are giving them 4+ FNP against mortals AND SoS have improved FNP against psychic. If you make this part redundant you are wrecking some interactions that are being created. Want an example? The new CK Abominant does mortals (psychic) in an area of 9" around him. Any damage he does translates into units being forced to do Battleshock tests if they are below starting strength.

 

So, what happens if SOS become absolutely unaffected by psykers? That you are negating a key part of the interaction of an army.

 

Now, if you tell me that A SINGLE MODEL (like a Culexus) can't be DAMAGED by psychic attacks then we could get to an agreement of some sorts. But full units that can be included in multiples?

 

11 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

@prava The thing to keep in mind is that negation of psychic powers IS PARTICIPATION in the psychic phase for some armies. SoS, and Custodes HAVE NO PSYKERS, so negation was their way to participate in the psychic component of the game. SoB have the same problem- deny the witch was their participation in the psychic phase, and many of their other rules keyed off their anti-psychic power. Of course, all those powers will have been eliminated now, not necessarily because of the removal of the psychic phase, but because of the removal of the excess strats, subfaction abilities and other rules that the people who were unhappy with 9th would label "bloat" and I would label "flavour."

 

SoS at least retain significant interactions with psykers and psychic powers, and some of the new interactions even make SoS feel more special, not less, so they're going to be okay. And when the dex comes, there may be an Anathema detachment that leans into SoS rather than the Golden Boys. I hope so anyway; I love SoS, but I'm lukewarm on Custodes. 

 

The SoB, however, don't have the same kind of interaction with the psychic phase in the new edition, so their status as the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus doesn't make as much sense as it did for the previous 8 editions of the game. They're also less likely to get a detachment that highlights that aspect of their fluff; and if they do, it could end up being an Ordo Hereticus detachment if this edition does in fact give us an Imperial Agents dex.

 

As @Khornestar says though, what might have been isn't as important as what is, and I am just happy that they care enough about SoS to mention them in the preview at all. I hope that Custodes get some new toys this edition, and I hope that at least one of those toys goes to the SoS. It's a long shot, but including them in the profile gives me hope.

 

 

Negation of psychic powers, to me, is a simple way to keep an army fluffy. Other armies have no participation in the psychic phase (neither they have psychics nor they have anty-psychic): like Imperial Knights, TAU, etc.

 

To me, the fluff is being mantained for the simple reason that SoS and Custodes are very hardy against psychich attacks. Specially SoS with rules that are not detachment-dependant.

 

SoB... we don't know what they will have. Same for Black Templars.

 

10 hours ago, Dark Legionnare said:

That's a bit of an invalid opinion, and I don't mean that abrasively, just matter-of-factly. A small squad or two of sisters being immune to psychic damage or effects to fit their lore isn't going to make psykers any less effective.

 

They're essentially SoB statlines with some fun, fluffy rules to prevent psychic from affecting them, just them. It's not an unbalancing or disruptive force as a whole. 

 

If they had an aura of "nothing can use anything 'psychic' (attacks, ability, etc ..) if within 12 inches of them" then while that may be fluffy, I could see that being disruptive and agree with you; avoid that. Fitting as that would be fluffwise, ultimately could be a problem to face the interactions of "only buff other friendlies" abilities while within that 12 and how they might completely hamstring GK, demons, or Thousand armies. Fluffy, but not fun in that regard; possibly invalidating everything those forces do instead of the sisters just, and only, protecting themselves like my sample idea.

 

As for why I said "invalid", there's already credence to things "Just ignoring" components of the game. Terminators automatically ignore any and all hit modifiers on their data sheet. Immediately invalidating any (psychic or otherwise) effects that might make something harder to hit to everything else in the game. Arguably, that unit ability is far more likely to be mass disruptive to other forces than the hypothesized SoS just making their own unit immune to psychic stuff affecting just their unit.

 

Food for thought, let's say down the road, a key survivability to GSC (who are usually wet tissue durability) is their psykers having effects of -1 to hit at longer ranges to make their troops a bit more surviveble, and fit a lore of being skulking about ambushing things. It only "affects" their joined unit, not the enemy units targeting them. SoS as I proposed do absolutely nothing to change that, but Terminators give no damns and are still hitting the GSC on 3, invalidating a key defensive trait of theirs.

 

Just because you disagree doesn't make my opinion invalid :D

 

Yes, sisters being immune to psychic does affect everything. What happens if you include 6 units of SoS? If you tell me that a Culexus, which you can only include one in your army shouldn't be affected then we could have a discussion over a few beers. Because it is ONE model. But you can have many units of SoS and negating psychic makes some new rules they are creating absolutely redundant... which was a problem in 9th for the psychich phase: some armies neither had psychic nor anti-psychic and they could only watch other players do stuff, but they were suffering the consequences. This is gone for 10th, and with Chaos Knights we can see how they are entangling everything: the Abominant does psychic damage in 9", and if a unit is damaged they have to check for Battleshock.

 

And negating a full aspect of the game (psychic) isn't even remotely similar to ignoring modifiers. GSC -1 to hit is a defensive rule that others might ignore. Just as Mortal Wounds is a way of ignoraing save rolls altogether. But they do not ignore rules of the game all the time*. A 3+ FNP against psychic is equivalent as having 3 times the wounds characteristics.

Does it ignore psychic? No, but it makes it 66% less damaging. We can call it MITIGATION instead of IGNORING. 

 

*The one that worries me is the "can't be targeted outside X", like BELAKOR has. That negates so many things im not sure it can ever be properly balanced.

 

9 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

People are all asking "how could they deal with high t tanks?" when they saw DG preview. Do they ask same question when they saw custodes?

 

Allarus with re-roll wounds and S7 Ap2 D2 should deal with tanks without issue. And it is the only custodes unit we have seen, we can guess that bikes will destroy tanks as well (+1 to wound on the charge means they will do short work of anything... + their fusion missiles), they also have dreadnoughts and tanks.

 

The Allarus, for instance, have something like 36% (with LETHAL HITS katha) of hit-to-failed-save conversion (against T < 14, 3+ save, vehicle/characer/monster). A unit of 3 with spears should deal around 10 damage. If you had other rules, stratagems or stuff this can only go further. Very decent if you ask me.

 

---

 

edit: WOW, my browser logged me out as I pushed "submit" and I thought I lost my wall of text! Turns out this clever forum has a way of keeping your draft, Thank the Emperor!

Edited May 24, 2023 by prava

[jaxom]

Just wanted to chuck in that nulls exist on a spectrum, just like psykers. They’re not always completely immune and it can become a rock-paper-scissors of who is more powerful.

[Indy Techwisp]

Just gonna throw my hat into the ring here and say that even with SoS not outright ignoring Psychic effects, a Psyker Heavy Army very much won't want to face a Talons Army.

The Custodes can tank mortals and the SoS are a nightmare to hit with Psyker powers now.

The entire army seems built specifically to punch through Psychic armies as is, so as far as I can tell, the SoS don't need to be even stronger vs Psykers.

 

Also consider the possibility that Grey Knights and/or TSons will probably have a significant amount of Psyker effects, possibly in unorthodox places compared to other armies, so straight ignoring Psychic effects could potentially mean turning off the entire army's ability or no-selling Strategems

[Captain Idaho]

2 hours ago, prava said:

 

But by doing it they improve their own rolls, they are not negating your own. So, they are not negating your saves, or FNP, or making you fail charges. They improve their own.

 

 

To be honest It's irrelevant whether it's affecting your dice rolls or the opponent's. They're ignoring the expensive toughness value you paid for on your Monolith by scoring an automatic wound.

 

Your issue was nothing should ignore a portion of the game, which should include the core proponent of a dice game - random chance.

[DemonGSides]

11 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

To be honest It's irrelevant whether it's affecting your dice rolls or the opponent's. They're ignoring the expensive toughness value you paid for on your Monolith by scoring an automatic wound.

 

Your issue was nothing should ignore a portion of the game, which should include the core proponent of a dice game - random chance.

 

No they aren't?  They get a limited number of dice they can replace.  If they spend all of those dice trying to defeat one monolith, there's still the whole rest of your army to contend with.

 

Your argument feels really disingenuous.

[Rain]

I guess the difference is the limit to the “ignorance” of game mechanics, and the degree of player agency. Eldar have a limited number of FD, that yes, they can regen, but it’s not like they just don’t roll dice. The Eldar player still has to make active choices about how to invest his FD.
 

This is a bit different to a unit just ignoring all psychic effects, all the time, without player choice or input. Kind of how in older editions, Fearless just ignored morale and pinning, and that was that. That said, I agree insofar as I think total randomness negation mechanics are bad in a game of this kind.

 

Rerolls are one thing, but to be able to replace rolls with known, set values, even it limited, feels against the spirit of the game. It takes the drama away from really needing to land that big shot, or make that big save roll, and is probably a gateway to many abilities some may consider overpowered. But it does require player agency, unlike flat “ignore X passively all the time” rules.

[BadgersinHills]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:08 PM, painting.for.my.sanity said:

Erm, does anyone know why the chap in the coloured strip down the left side of the Instagram story for this looks like a zombie in Allarus Terminator Armour?

 

Was curious about it myself.

[DemonGSides]

19 minutes ago, Rain said:

Rerolls are one thing, but to be able to replace rolls with known, set values, even it limited, feels against the spirit of the game. It takes the drama away from really needing to land that big shot, or make that big save roll, and is probably a gateway to many abilities some may consider overpowered. But it does require player agency, unlike flat “ignore X passively all the time” rules.

 

The easy counter argument to this is; it's limited, and if your enemies entire battle strategy hinged on them surviving a single attack, then, well, they're bad at the game, which you can only do so much balancing for.  They have a maximum of 12 rolls to influence; if they influence a lot early, they get no influence later on (Or limited, or even BAD influence!).  So even  the original concern isn't really founded; if the entire game always came down to a single roll, sure, keep that 6 until you REALLY need it.

You've lost three Wraith Walkers because "Well I might need that six for later to protect Eldrad!".  That's a legit trade-off, one an eldar player has to think through, and one that can't be replenished.  There's thought behind it.  Very similar to how Battle Sisters deal with their fate dice, it requires knowledge, planning, and tactics.  And if you choose wrong, you can be punished, HEAVILY, for it later on in the game.

Meanwhile, "Hypothetical SoS" walks up against a psychic army and just laughs and laughs and laughs as the enemy has lost it's main offensive option, in a game about killing the enemy and taking their territory.  Doesn't feel like a good comparison.

Edited May 24, 2023 by DemonGSides

[Indy Techwisp]

20 minutes ago, Rain said:

Rerolls are one thing, but to be able to replace rolls with known, set values, even it limited, feels against the spirit of the game. It takes the drama away from really needing to land that big shot, or make that big save roll, and is probably a gateway to many abilities some may consider overpowered. But it does require player agency, unlike flat “ignore X passively all the time” rules.

 

Even with Fate Dice replacing a roll with a Known value, the player still had to roll those dice initially, so there's still an element of randomness with it.

 

Hypothetical "Just turn off Psykers" SoS just outright no-selling a feature that is the Core Faction Identity of some factions is a lot worse than just not rolling some dice imo.

 

Imagine if the Custodes had a Unit that could just turn off Oath of Moment, or Turn off WE Charges.

That's the sort of situation Grey Knights and TSons would be in of SoS just turned off Psykers

[Rain]

9 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

The easy counter argument to this is; it's limited, and if your enemies entire battle strategy hinged on them surviving a single attack, then, well, they're bad at the game, which you can only do so much balancing for.  They have a maximum of 12 rolls to influence; if they influence a lot early, they get no influence later on (Or limited, or even BAD influence!).  So even  the original concern isn't really founded; if the entire game always came down to a single roll, sure, keep that 6 until you REALLY need it.

<snip for brevity>

Meanwhile, "Hypothetical SoS" walks up against a psychic army and just laughs and laughs and laughs as the enemy has lost it's main offensive option, in a game about killing the enemy and taking their territory.  Doesn't feel like a good comparison.

Uh, did you only read half of my post or something? I explicitly said that FD are limited, require player agency, and are different from effects that flatly ignore game mechanics at all times without player input.

 

As to how powerful it is, that can be a never-ending discussion, but clearly some rolls are a bigger deal than others, and being able to guarantee that Fire Prism shot lands instead of having to roll for it feels a bit cheaty. How strong it shakes out to be, we shall see, but seeing as the dice can he regened, and it’s Eldar, it will probably be strong.

 

Edit: Maybe I worded my initial post with insufficient clarity. So, to make it really explicit: I agree that FD are different in kind from effects that just ignore psychic abilities without player input. I agree that flatly ignoring psychic abilities is bad for the game. I think FD are also bad for the game, but for a different reason than “passive ignore” effects. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Rain

[Indy Techwisp]

Just now, Rain said:

and being able to guarantee that Fire Prism shot lands instead of having to roll for it feels a bit cheaty. 

 

If you're spending your 6 to make the Hit, you haven't guaranteed the Wound.

And if you have two 6s or a 6 and a 5 which you spend to lock in the hit and the wound, that's 2 dice spent on one attack.

You could also lose the 6 you spent on the hit if the opponent makes their save.

 

Fate dice are a temporary resource, and spending them all on 1 big gun is a good way to have none left to save your Warlord in a pinch.

[DemonGSides]

4 minutes ago, Rain said:

Uh, did you only read half of my post or something? I explicitly said that FD are limited, require player agency, and are different from effects that flatly ignore game mechanics at all times without player input.

I know, that's why I agreed and expounded on it.  The only counter was to the argument that they are random reducing, which they really aren't, and even the little bit of randomness they reduce is found elsewhere.

Not everyone's trying to fist fight ya, Khorne ;)

 

4 minutes ago, Rain said:

As to how powerful it is, that can be a never-ending discussion, but clearly some rolls are a bigger deal than others, and being able to guarantee that Fire Prism shot lands instead of having to roll for it feels a bit cheaty. How strong it shakes out to be, we shall see, but seeing as the dice can he regened, and it’s Eldar, it will probably be strong.

 

You get to do that a limited number of times.  So it's not really a never-ending discussion, there's actual limits.  Regeneration isn't automatic, it requires input, once again creating decision matrices for both players - do we target the dice generators, or the dice beneficiaries?  Did the dice actually roll good; do we kill the guy that makes the dice roll good, or just eliminate new dice being brought into the game?

 

Meanwhile, hypothetical SoS literally have no restraint to them; 60 Prosectuors, 30 Witchseekers and 30 Vigilators rove up a game board with little to restrain them against a psychic heavy army, and they literally have nothing they can do; there's no one to target to remove the benefits of their ability, theirs no strategem that turns off Anti-Psychic, and frankly there's too many bodies for the regular weapons to chew through.

Is it hyperbole?  Absolutely, but we're already engaging in that when we assume that every fate dice is a 6 and there's unlimited access to them.
 

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, DemonGSides said:

Meanwhile, hypothetical SoS literally have no restraint to them; 60 Prosectuors, 30 Witchseekers and 30 Vigilators rove up a game board with little to restrain them against a psychic heavy army, and they literally have nothing they can do; there's no one to target to remove the benefits of their ability, theirs no strategem that turns off Anti-Psychic, and frankly there's too many bodies for the regular weapons to chew through.

 

Don't forget that with how they've shown detachments working there's almost 100% going to be a Detachment that hard Focuses SoS, especially considering there's been rumours swirling around about more types of SoS being added with new minis.

 

A hypothetical SoS army wouldn't just turn off Psychic effects with their whole army, they'd have an entire detachment purpose built for it.

[DemonGSides]

See that I would be fine with; if my detatchment rule gives them "Shut down psychic powers around them, but here's a whole bunch of stipulations", it adds back in that decision making that would be missing if it was just "All Sisters are IMMUNE".

[Dark Legionnare]

5 hours ago, prava said:

Just because you disagree doesn't make my opinion invalid :D

 

Yes, sisters being immune to psychic does affect everything. What happens if you include 6 units of SoS? If you tell me that a Culexus, which you can only include one in your army shouldn't be affected then we could have a discussion over a few beers. Because it is ONE model. But you can have many units of SoS and negating psychic makes some new rules they are creating absolutely redundant... which was a problem in 9th for the psychich phase: some armies neither had psychic nor anti-psychic and they could only watch other players do stuff, but they were suffering the consequences. This is gone for 10th, and with Chaos Knights we can see how they are entangling everything: the Abominant does psychic damage in 9", and if a unit is damaged they have to check for Battleshock.

 

And negating a full aspect of the game (psychic) isn't even remotely similar to ignoring modifiers. GSC -1 to hit is a defensive rule that others might ignore. Just as Mortal Wounds is a way of ignoraing save rolls altogether. But they do not ignore rules of the game all the time*. A 3+ FNP against psychic is equivalent as having 3 times the wounds characteristics.

Does it ignore psychic? No, but it makes it 66% less damaging. We can call it MITIGATION instead of IGNORING. 

 

*The one that worries me is the "can't be targeted outside X", like BELAKOR has. That negates so many things im not sure it can ever be properly balanced.

Absolutely, man.  Didn't mean it any way offensively, hence mentioning not abrasively. Just couldn't think of a better term than "invalid", since you mentioned mine "Making 0 sense" when there's things already (and with a sigh in the same vein because I'm sure they'll be plenty more because GW can never help themselves) that negate whole facets of some rules systems. Certainly don't hold your opinion or voiced stuff in any low regard or anything of that note. 1000% would chat over beers indeed! 

Certainly do see exactly what you're saying, for sure. I concur with the sentiment for design as a whole. That said, if somebody was going that hard on sisters, they're probably a maniac!  I feel like what are essentially bolter-babes and some okay melee isn't too threatful if spread wide like that. They'll still die as easy to a stiff breeze that comes their way from the weapons the factions toting psychic en masse can muster. Certainly not hurting to clear out 3+ T3 models en masse across the board I feel like.  To me, it feels like sacrificing some bulletproof established fluff just to maintain something in the vein that wouldn't matter all that much to do said proposed effects.  But I digress!  They like to take a lot of cleavers to various lore/fluff in the last 5 years especially, so we'll see what comes further!

Edited May 24, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Captain Idaho]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

No they aren't?  They get a limited number of dice they can replace.  If they spend all of those dice trying to defeat one monolith, there's still the whole rest of your army to contend with.

 

Your argument feels really disingenuous.

 

We all know that you don't have to use all the dice in one go to have an effect, rather select key moments to just ignore the dice rolling mechanic core to the game.

 

Added to this ways to generate additional Fate dice and fix the results through things like Farseers, which further compound the issue.

 

So labelling my position as disenguous is a little ironic... 

[prava]

2 hours ago, Dark Legionnare said:

Absolutely, man.  Didn't mean it any way offensively, hence mentioning not abrasively. Just couldn't think of a better term than "invalid", since you mentioned mine "Making 0 sense" when there's things already (and with a sigh in the same vein because I'm sure they'll be plenty more because GW can never help themselves) that negate whole facets of some rules systems. Certainly don't hold your opinion or voiced stuff in any low regard or anything of that note. 1000% would chat over beers indeed! 

Certainly do see exactly what you're saying, for sure. I concur with the sentiment for design as a whole. That said, if somebody was going that hard on sisters, they're probably a maniac!  I feel like what are essentially bolter-babes and some okay melee isn't too threatful if spread wide like that. They'll still die as easy to a stiff breeze that comes their way from the weapons the factions toting psychic en masse can muster. Certainly not hurting to clear out 3+ T3 models en masse across the board I feel like.  To me, it feels like sacrificing some bulletproof established fluff just to maintain something in the vein that wouldn't matter all that much to do said proposed effects.  But I digress!  They like to take a lot of cleavers to various lore/fluff in the last 5 years especially, so we'll see what comes further!

 

Yeah, I apologise for my "making 0 sense". I didn't need to sound like an ass. Im sorry.

 

Well, do not discount the sisters so quickly. T3 3+ on a world of AP going down means they will be more survivable than ever. Prosecutors won't be killing anything, I think we agree on that, and probably not even psykers... but Vigilators? They look extremely powerful in melee against anything below T10. And if your target is a psyker? The Emperor have mercy on them, because those sisters will not.

 

Also, am I the only one that believes that the Allarus will cost at least 80 points each? T7 infantry body with very decent melee and 2+/4++... you will be able to buy a full squad of sisters for a single Allarus. Their roles are obviously different, no questions there, but I believe in this edition table presence will be very important and chaff units that weren't used before because they would die in an instant might have some uses now.

 

At the end of the day, if you are shooting those sisters you are not shooting those pesky bikes that will be charging you next second...

[Necronmaniac]

Just to jump in on the Eldar ignoring the random dice roll mechanic. If they have weapons that have say, lethal hits, or anti vehicle or devastating wounds (or even combinations of those rules) then actually being able to replace a roll with a known value that you know will proc those additional rules, for example swapping out a miss for a 6 to hit or a failed wound with a 6 to wound which then triggers something like grievous wounds is pretty heinous IMO. At that point they ARE ignoring your saves and toughness because Lethal hits auto wounds and devastating wounds inflicts mortal wounds which ignore your saves and invulnerable saves.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Necronmaniac

[Lord_Ikka]

=][= As a note to all, this thread is about the Adeptus Custodes and their preview. Bringing up other factions in the conversation without it being related to Custodes is off-topic. =][=

[ThePenitentOne]

For those considering SoS 9th vs. 10th:

 

It's worth remembering that the SoS power from 9th wasn't all roses- it affected ALL psykers, not just ENEMY psykers. So if you had a psyker in your army, it needed to be 18" away, otherwise it took a penalty to psychic abilities. Similarly, SoS could never receive psychic buffs.

 

For a Talons army, this wasn't much of an impediment. But if you use SoS in support of the Ordo Hereticus, you might want to bring Karamazov over Greyfax. Similarly, if you ran a Torchbearer Crusade, you want to minimize Librarians, or deploy on opposite sides of the DZ.

 

The new SoS get a minor boost by not suffering these consequences- SoS Bodyguards for Greyfax it is. Make them Witchseekers so you can pile a the whole lot of them into a rhino and then give a scout move. This is no consolation to Talons purists, or SoS purists, but it is something I'm looking forward to doing, especially since I'm going to have 5 SoS soon. 

 

IMHO, the 9th ed version is more consistent with the lore... But I don't think I'll let that stop me from exploring some of the new possibilities that have opened up.