Wh40k 10th Edition Horus Heresy Units In 10th Edition

[Spagunk]

Please forgive this step into possible politics but believe me it's relevant.

 

My wife is immuno-compromised. She has practically no immune system. I can ask people I play games with to wear a mask (I do without fail). Some may wear one, nearly all do not. I cannot FORCE people to wear a mask at any point. Because of this, more often than not, I have to exclude myself from games unless we're somewhere I feel comfortable playing (I.E. constant air circulation/filtering etc).

 

This is similar to Legends. You can ask all you want but you cannot force someone to let you play Legends. Your only recourse is to either remove those units from your list or cancel/bow out of the game. This has and does happen and you are quickly labeled "that guy" if you insist or try to push that point. If you don't go with the flow, you're the outlier.

If you happen to find that great group of people that let you play legends, awesome. We're happy that you found your people. But someone like myself must be VERY selective and can't afford the social interaction needed to find that one group.

[Blindhamster]

clearly it isn’t everyone’s experience though, this thread has people saying their experience is different.

 

fact is, it absolutely is people’s choice to allow or not allow legends, it’s also a fact that gw have actively said what their view on it is. It’s a new edition, things change, people can totally opt to stick to views based on how legends was, but gw have given a nudge to suggest otherwise.

 

There is an opportunity to open up the discussion on if these units/legends should be fair game in gaming groups and stores again, gw are encouraging people to go ahead and use them.

 

if they opt not to, that isn’t on gw, it’s on the people opting not to allow something that gw have outright stated are legal in games that aren’t their tournaments. 
 

my experience of local stores and groups is that legends will be fine, probably even for local tournaments tbh. But I may be just super lucky. Hopefully more groups will embrace legends and it can be more than the graveyard it was for many last edition.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

10 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

The point is, people use the newest ruleset, which is the GT ruleset, as their baseline. Calling it "tournament prep or tournaments" is inaccurate, because it is used for casual and pick-up games as well.

 

Call it stupid, call it the community's problem, tell people they are wrong, whatever. Does not change the fact that it happens.

 

I agree with Sword Brother Adelard..

I know you and I have had our disagreements thru the posts, but I am convinced the issue with "people want to use the newest ruleset, which is the GT ruleset, as their baseline" is driven by the tournament community. How many casual gamers want to go out and buy additional resources to game with? There have been plenty who have tried to argue with me that because money is tight for so many, then they can't do xyz.. Yet they have the funds to purchase campaign books, and tournament packs, and all the other shenanigans that GW puts out, just to have an army local opponents will bless off on? That's dumb. 

No. The problem is they can't get a game at WH40k's base level because of the attitudes, sentiments, and standards the community has developed that IS centric to tournament play. The internet is a massive part of that problem because people can't break themselves away from it. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Bloody Legionnaire

[Spagunk]

9 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

clearly it isn’t everyone’s experience though, this thread has people saying their experience is different.

 

fact is, it absolutely is people’s choice to allow or not allow legends, it’s also a fact that gw have actively said what their view on it is. It’s a new edition, things change, people can totally opt to stick to views based on how legends was, but gw have given a nudge to suggest otherwise.

 

There is an opportunity to open up the discussion on if these units/legends should be fair game in gaming groups and stores again, gw are encouraging people to go ahead and use them.

 

if they opt not to, that isn’t on gw, it’s on the people opting not to allow something that gw have outright stated are legal in games that aren’t their tournaments. 
 

my experience of local stores and groups is that legends will be fine, probably even for local tournaments tbh. But I may be just super lucky. Hopefully more groups will embrace legends and it can be more than the graveyard it was for many last edition.

I think that's a region difference. The US has a different scene in a general sense than Europe or the UK. "Rugged Individualism" is the term but it does really weird things to people regarding social interactions and general attitude. Not to mention that we're very spread out here despite what our large population centers lead you to believe.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Spagunk

[Joe]

I've been fortunate enough that our local community has always been happy to use the Legends units (admittedly, we also still run older editions of the game as well, alongside long deprecated systems - we even had a Warmaster event this weekend gone!), however I empathise with the members here who aren't in a similar position. I understand the reasoning behind the decision on Geedub's end, however it does genuinely suck for many people.

 

I'm glad that at least Custodes and Knights aren't as badly hit here; tacit acknowledgement that both armies still lack enough unit profiles at least.

[Rain]

2 minutes ago, Spagunk said:

I think that's a region difference. The US has a different scene in a general sense than Europe or the UK. "Rugged Individualism" is the term but it does really weird things to people regarding social interactions and general attitude. Not to mention that we're very spread out here despite what our large population centers lead you to believe.

 

Oh, come on. I don't want to veer off too far into real world social politics, but the problem can very easily be argued as the opposite, that is, herd mentality. If "everyone else" accepts GT packs/rules as the "default" way to play, then newcomers just accept it as "the way it is" and being the "rugged individual" trying to use his Legends units makes you the outcast who ends up with no opponents.

 

Herd/tribe instincts and agreeing with "the consensus" because it is easier, and it helps one fit in socially are a basic part of human psychology on any continent. Add to this the internet, and the additional alienation of people that grow up with far more digital contact with other humans than face to face contact, and, well, you don't get fertile ground for "negotiation" against the mainstream opinion on which toy soldiers you can play with.

[DemonGSides]

So are people just already planning on using the last GT pack from 9th edition when they start playing 10th?

[WAR]

=][= Thread is locked for a few days to allow everyone to calm down and remember the rules of B&C =][=

 

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[spessmarine]

Feeling a bit salty over this line:

 

Quote

... balancing this ever increasing range of miniatures for competitive games has become unwieldy.

 

And then seeing the index with 5 lieutenants and 7 land speeders

[Nuriel-666]

1 hour ago, spessmarine said:

Feeling a bit salty over this line:

 

 

And then seeing the index with 5 lieutenants and 7 land speeders

Because the real reason is: we don't want you to use one army for two systems.

[Magos Takatus]

2 hours ago, spessmarine said:

Feeling a bit salty over this line:

 

 

And then seeing the index with 5 lieutenants and 7 land speeders

I've always thought having a separate sheet for Lieutenant picking his nose while holding bolt pistol in left hand on a Wednesday afternoon was unnecessary and they should be consolidated into as few sheets as possible.

[armarnis]

Apparently GW thinks their customers are not bright enough to be able to select a specific profile depending on the armour a given choice ist wearing. 

 

This will only become worse over time before they claim a single choice with all the possible equipment options will BE the new hot sausage we all need. Terrible 

[Arkhanist]

2 hours ago, armarnis said:

Apparently GW thinks their customers are not bright enough to be able to select a specific profile depending on the armour a given choice ist wearing. 

 

This will only become worse over time before they claim a single choice with all the possible equipment options will BE the new hot sausage we all need. Terrible 

 

Wellll, having worked retail in my youth, they might not be entirely wrong about that...

 

They'll probably do a combined datasheet when they eventually release a multi-option phobos LT kit.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Arkhanist

[SalamandersBro]

As a 30k player, I think it's pretty cool. I haven't played 40k since 3rd, Necrons and Tau came out. It also gives me the chance to see if I like how 40k plays before I decide to invest in another army.

 

I wouldn't mind trying my Salamanders out against some Orks or Aeldari in 10th. 

[Gederas]

On 6/10/2023 at 3:46 AM, armarnis said:

Apparently GW thinks their customers are not bright enough to be able to select a specific profile depending on the armour a given choice ist wearing. 

 

This will only become worse over time before they claim a single choice with all the possible equipment options will BE the new hot sausage we all need. Terrible 

Having worked in Customer Service my whole life (first as a busser at a restaurant, then phone lines for AAA) THERE'S A REASON why this implication from GW exists

 

People are dumb. Individuals may be smart, but people as a whole are idiots.

[Brother_Angelus]

On 6/10/2023 at 2:02 PM, spessmarine said:

Feeling a bit salty over this line:

 

 

And then seeing the index with 5 lieutenants and 7 land speeders

Despite all of those entries they apparently don't even have a Typhoon in UM colours so just photoshopped the cyclone missile launchers onto the tempest and forgot to remove the chin gun. I'm surprised the old land speeders are surviving into yet another edition. Terrible kit that it is.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Brother_Angelus

[OttoVonAwesome]

6 hours ago, Brother_Angelus said:

Despite all of those entries they apparently don't even have a Typhoon in UM colours so just photoshopped the cyclone missile launchers onto the tempest and forgot to remove the chin gun. I'm surprised the old land speeders are surviving into yet another edition. Terrible kit that it is.

Hey I love my speeders and different Captains. At least they justified having seperate datasheets by giving them all clearly defined role abilities. It's far better than 9th edition where there was no real sane reason to seperate them since they didn't join units or have abilities related to thier role that would plug up thier precious card real estate.

 

None of this relates to thier decision to seperate the heresy units into legends entries for one Chaos has 1/10th of the entries and they are the real losers about it with even deamon engines getting restricted wich tells me those are getting 30k rules pretty soon. It's about seperating the ranges not balance and they will never ever just come out and say it. Balancing units all the data comes from tournements and they wouldn't release a legends entry if they didn't feel it was balanced already in thier mind everything is perfect until the meta's tournement data tells them otherwise so cutting them off from that source has to do with something else since it is no more work than they would be doing with any other unit in any army. They don't know it's broken until we break it.

 

I'm not gonna keep anyone from playing legends units. There's zero chance any of it as op as the list me and my group are cooking up like I don't see how the whirlwind scorpius will be better than the whirlwind already is or how predator variants and sicarans could possibly be better to the point of replacing the gladiators. The BaC contemptor is in the index so what do I care if someone wants it to have different guns that unit especially since it's base points at least will see updates. Yep all good to me. Everything in that index is viable except for you know who but that's a different topic alltogether.

[Borbarad]

If they are retiring the Boxnought, is that only for marines or are grey knights also affected? With only a fraction of data sheets, the removal of one unit is quite noticeable. 

[OttoVonAwesome]

4 hours ago, Borbarad said:

If they are retiring the Boxnought, is that only for marines or are grey knights also affected? With only a fraction of data sheets, the removal of one unit is quite noticeable. 

The retired the original not the venerable and consolidated thier two datasheets into one. I doubt they'd just take it away from Grey Knights.