Wh40k 10th Edition Space Marine Index

[ThePenitentOne]

There is a financial incentive for GW to ensure that the paid content is more refined than the free stuff.

 

Hopefully, they will revise the sheets for the dexes and commercial cards- I know they've already gone to print, but I wouldn't be surprised if the digital content was the rough draft; this would have been the folks translating the 9th data sheets into 10th formats; while they are doing this, other members of the team are rough cutting all the rules for the new units we haven't seen yet.

 

Both draft versions are used to generate the final dex/ card commercial release. Then GW says: Indexes can't include any new unreleased units, so they digitize the rough draft of existing units.

 

Maybe that's wishful thinking... But time will tell.

 

Seriously though: if you swap the name of the Assault Squad and Vets, it absolutely comes out the way it should... So much so that I think perhaps that's what happened, and it slipped past the editor. Here's hoping.

[Arkangilos]

2 hours ago, Emicus said:

Why combat squad? 6x5 of each troops choice is insufficient for you? You gotta get that fat 12x5 of each?

So I can put a tactical squad in razor backs? 
 

So I can play a fluffy way to represent a fire support element and an assaulting element of the same squad?

 

Are competitive reasons the only reasons you can ever think of for a toy game?

 

ETA: maybe you just aren’t aware that tactical squads are minimum of 10, so you can’t use your razor backs with them. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Dr. Clock]

Welp - couldn't resist playing index hammer against my buddy's Nids using 9th points. I went second, Nids lost by turn 3.

 

First impressions:

 

Captain + Assault Intercessors: Really quite chonky frontline with all that free armour of contempt.

 

Chaplain + Assault intercessors: Wreck face. Blitzed 10 Stealers, ate a Carnifex charge and kept ticking. Top marks.

 

Judiciar + Bladeguard: auto-take - walked all over pair of Oathed carnifexes in turn 2

 

Hellblasters + Bolter Discipline Lieutenant: lost 2 first time I fired and one other died to venom cannon in first turn, meaning they had almost no impact on the game. I only have 5, so I think I'll still use them occasionally for lulz, but throw Lieutenant in with Captain's Intercessors next time. Better yet I'll probably swap an Infernus squad in for Overwatch shenanigans once they arrive (fingers crossed for tmrw).

 

Thunderstrike speeders: Hekkin good! My pair accounted for flyrant and trygon without breaking sweat.

 

Eradicators: Yep. Not needing Oath means they can go for a different target, which is what happened in my 2nd turn - Eradicators + Thunderstrikes nuked Trygon while I used Oath to assault pair of Carnies threatening surviving intercessors.

 

Inceptors: Cool. Oath + dmg 3 plasma is fun (Opponent let me take the plasma for free). Sustained 2 bolters are good Objective broom as well.

 

Outriders: Fine, I guess. Wish they punched a bit harder. Chaplain on bike might be fun, because everyone loves Devastating... Don't really fancy losing characters from Intercessors or Bladeguard for it tho. Expect they'll still have good utility for secondaries / board control (just played 'Only War') as long as they remain affordable.

 

Intercessors: Solid. Heavy makes them fun for holding rear.

 

Reivers: Game ended before they arrived.

 

Overall:

 

Doctrines are really good: tactical in turn two let me cut down melee threats with DS / Reserves pretty good and let me skirt Broodlord and Prime to push through on enemy objective. Oath of Moment defines the faction; big 'surgical strike' vibes. Shoot the Big Ones. Also Armour of Contempt - I basically didn't find time to use any other strat (did re-roll one charge)

 

I probably did end up with a better build using 9th points, but I also had better dice luck, and I think opponent went too aggro in T1 to the effect of dropping like a quarter of the army (20 Stealers and Flyrant) before it hit properly. Very interested to see the points...

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Malakithe]

5 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

On a more negative note, take a look at this silly stack of cards.

 

I don't know what GW will do or when, but they definitely have to do something and soon. This can't be the faction they expect new players will be jumping into with ease and simplicity. 

 

 

GW finally goes digital, prints more cards then most casinos have

[DemonGSides]

That's brutal, Doc. 2000 point game?  Was the enemy mostly monsters?

[jaxom]

13 hours ago, Bradeh said:

About that Rhino article, the grammar was pretty clear at the time... You can't transport Primaris. 

 

 

Specifically, you can't transport certain units, as identified by those armor tags. I think it's a small, but important, difference in perspective. See next reply.

 

13 hours ago, Jorin Helm-splitter said:

I like that they made outsiders 3-6 and that they can be joined by an atv. They did lose the extra attacks on the charge ability but I actually prefer being able to bulk up the squad a bit.

 

It also creates a parallel to the existing Bike Squadron with Attack Bike. If a player wanted to, they can now easily Counts-As either set of models as either unit type (for the most part). See next reply,

 

13 hours ago, Carcosa said:

€: the chaplain on bike is just on profile for OG and primaris marines.

 

 Any model can now be Firstborn or Primaris, with the major factor being mechanical interactions (which I will assume are for balance reasons, as to avoid cynicism). The Bike and Outrider units stand out particularly because they actually share the same unit special rules (Turboboost & Outrider Escort).

 

13 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

On the other hand there's still some major silliness with datasheet loadouts, as GW struggles fiercely to remove any possibility of someone running a model that isn't stock, and Primaris STILL being forbade from traveling in Rhinos is just stupid. Especially given that in most other respects they've removed a lot of that nonsense. Let them in already!

5 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

What's even worse is Firstborn not fitting on Impulsors! Again, if you assume Firstborn are in-universe actually noticeably smaller than Primaris, like at all (not even to the degree shown by old-scale Marines compared to the more "true-scaled" Primaris minis) then they should have no problems boarding one. Having Firstborn unable to use Primaris transports isn't just nonsensical, it actively hurts the game in every aspect- in fluff-representation and the ability to build the army people actually want. In fact, it serves no purpose beyond forcing people to play the game the way GW wants.

5 hours ago, sandrorect said:

 

They maybe think if primaris can go in rhino there is no reason for us to buy impulsors. Maybe some firstborn units still will be disapering and rhinos and firstborn servo units will be some of these units so GW think is better to separate the units.

 

But as we don´t know want the designers wants, we can only speculate. But is more probably is a model an sale reason than a in-universe explanation.

 

3 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Sternguard can't go in Rhinos... big mistake there. They need to be in 10s to really take advantage of the Devastating Wounds ability they have on all their bolt weapons. So it's Drop Pods or nothing, as people surely won't fork out points for a Land Raider or Repulsor just for 8-10 Sternguard now?

 

Silly.

 

If it were me, my design thought is that Rhino's can't take Tacticus units because improving the mobility of 10 Hellblasters, 10 Desolators, 10 Reivers, etc is a greater boost to what they can do than what I would want while keeping the Rhino reasonably pointed. But I'm trying to be generous towards the Design Team, they could just be pushing kits.

 

13 hours ago, Bradeh said:

 

The Primaris/Firstborn being one is out the window when they released that article saying Rhinos can't take Primaris. Tacticus/Phobos is just the more subtle way of saying Primaris now. Sternguard are basically Primaris. I think GW wanted to protect certain sculpts/units like Terminators/Land Raiders so they made it seem like Firstborn is back. Nothing has changed though if you look at any marketing or artwork in books it's all Primaris + certain protected sculpts like new Terminators, etc. 

 

13 hours ago, Kallas said:

Primaris Captains and Captains are identical, except in the wargear options and what units they can go on. Why can't a Captain join a unit of Sternguard? Why can't a Primaris Captain join a Tactical Squad? It's baffling and utterly stupid: it's clearly not a balancing issue about their buffs, because they're identical, and their available wargear options that are equivalent are also identical - if someone wants to give their Primaris Captain a Thunder Hammer, bloody let them and just consolidate the two datasheets! Similarly, we've got all Primaris/Firstborn characters being almost perfectly identical...except the Techmarines, who have different Wounds, why?

8 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Like emperor allmighty this document is THICC. Guess it would be when theres 8 different captains. As many chaplains, lieutenants etc. Some sheets like assault marines were also split to two, with and without jump packs.

 

Honestly feel like the distinction between tacitus and classic marine characters shoulda been dropped. Just have any differences be in gear options only.

 

I think it makes a twisted sense from a marketing. The armor keywords gate certain unit-transport interactions for the reason I stated above. The other area to look at is the characters. Why the differentiation? I think it has to do with presentation. I think someone at GW (and I'm guessing it's marketing) doesn't want pictures from GW events where old sculpts are directly mixed in with new sculpts. That's why I think the characters with Firstborn and Primaris differentiation (and it's really Mk7 vs Tacticus differentiation) have the same unit rules. At the end of the day, it's about how they look and not what they do. I think it's dumb, but it fits with some of GW's other decisions (especially how they rolled out Aura's in 9th). As for the Primaris Captain with Thunderhammer; if the Codex does pan out like the Index, I expect we'll see a lot of Primaris-body based Tactical Squads, Assault Squads, Characters, etc, who are wearing "I Can't Believe It's Not Tacticus Armor"... because it's really just the armor and weapons that now determine the unit type.

 

Having said that, there are inconsistencies among the characters. Primaris Librarians and Primaris Lieutenants are lack Primaris keyword and instead have Primaris Lib/Lt as keyword along with Tacticus while the other Lib/Lt options don't. Meanwhile Primaris Capt has "Primaris, Capt" keyword combo which makes me think they started one way and switched part way through.

 

13 hours ago, Kallas said:

For reducing bloat, we now have more units split out into separate datasheets: Land Speeders are now three different datasheets of 1 speeder, instead of one single datasheet of 1-3 speeders. I know it's so they can give them different abilities, but they really didn't need to. Same for the Assault Squad: JP and non-JP have a different ability and Movement, but they could literally put that under the Wargear Abilities section ("If this unit has Jump Packs, it has the Hammer of Wrath ability and Mv12", otherwise it has Chainsword Doctrine and Mv6""). It's insane that they claimed that they were making the game 'simplified but not simple' and then they go and clutter it up with even more guff.

9 hours ago, Kallas said:

It would have helped if they didn't expand the number of datasheets present (eg, Land Speeders being split instead of consolidated); and things like Primaris Captains and Captains being separate, instead of just being one sheet. There are so many datasheets that could be consolidated easily.

 

 

I blame the growth of the tournament scene and it's influence on list-building. GW's survey data showed that people more often buy kits if they thought they'd be "playable" in addition to liking how the models looked. "Playable" for those who want a quick check often means it can be found in a tournament player's list. Giving each unit it's own bespoke rule helps solidify a reason to take it compared to the other as people explore unit combinations. Could they have put it all in one entry (as per your example)? Sure, but that's against their current paradigm of presenting each unit as having one key role.

 

13 hours ago, Lord_Valorion said:

What have they done to Vanguard Vets?????!!!!

 

13 hours ago, Kallas said:

And Vanguard get utterly gutted, even more so than Tyranid Warriors (Warrior weapons were at least relatively similar, even if they still had a different purpose between them; Thunder Hammers and Chainswords are not).

12 hours ago, Squark said:

While I'm mostly ambivilent about the weapon condenscing, I have to admit that Assault Squads having more weapon options than Vanguard Vets feels backwards. Probably to do with Wargear prices being eliminated wherever possible, but you'd think they'd have at least done a heavy/light weapon split like on the basic Heretic Astartes.

11 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

just want to reiterate, they utterly neutererd vanguard vets lol...  their rules equate to basic power weapons. Not even close to hammers or fists. Agree with others in that they should have had a heavy melee option

11 hours ago, Karhedron said:

I just tracked down a box of the lovely Blood Angels Vanguard Vets and got them magentised. I was planning to spray them this weekend. 

10 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Vanguard Veterans seems like a cheap shot. In fact the Sternguard getting no Sergeant options either just makes both squads seem very specialised and not particularly Elite.

 

Worst of all, is twin Lightning Claws, power fists and Thunder Hammers exist... so why can't I use them now?

 

Terrible.

3 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Cor the biggest disappointment in this Index is Vanguard. They're so weak now and don't even represent the weapons they might have - double lightning Claws? Nah.

 

Now Assault Marines are better equipped with melee weapons, unless you're trying to blend a horde.

 

It's about role. Vanguard Veterans were too broad in application because of all their weapon options. Even as "The Meta" changed, the answer wasn't for Space Marine players to look at other units, it was just to swap the weapons on their Vanguard Veterans. Now they have a role: durable anti-infantry, which is why I think they weren't given a "heavy weapon" option. Do I think it's good for the Faction? Yes. Do I think VV got hit too bit hard? Also yes, especially as the 4++ won't matter if there's not as much AP-2 around. But depending on points, a mobile unit with Atk4 Str5 AP-1 D1 Lethal Hit on Charge could have a place.

 

I am hoping a Sternguard MPK (and perhaps a new Vanguard kit?) has parts and options for a Sergeant. I like how it helps them stand out from the rest of unit with same helmet color.

 

13 hours ago, Kallas said:

Then, as someone has pointed out: Tactical Squads must be 10-strong. Why?! Because it's 10 models in the box?  sake, this is so stupid. 

12 hours ago, Firedrake Cordova said:

I'm also a little surprised that composition of the command squad is limited, so you have to have a company champion and ancient, unless I'm misreading it (I've always just had a sergeant, apothecary, and 3 marines).

 

Also, Tactical Squads have lost their combat squad party trick, which means that Razorbacks are somewhat limited? (I'm also surprised that the Razorback kept the twin assault cannon option)

3 hours ago, Bradeh said:

 

Orange Knight is being pragmatic that's why. At the end of the day it all comes down the famous saying of, it is what it is. GW doesn't want you converting and mixing, that's why they have gone to this system, no model no rules and limited wargear options Primaris range. They want to build what's in the box and play it. Do I like it? No, but Primaris is here to stay and is the future of the range. So unless GW is going to balance 200+ units something has to change or go. 

 

It took me a long time and listening to hobby talk in a lot places before it really hit home how many people actually like to buy a box and just build it without having to think about details. It's particularly strong in the AoS community, but it's present in the 40k community as well. I expect it's also why a Command Squad is now exactly what's in the box: 1 Ancient, 1 Apothecary, 1 Champion, and 2 Veterans. GW doesn't care if you kit bash, but the kit's are designed more for those who don't want to kit bash. It's like how boxed cake is designed for people who just want to make a cake from a box, because the people who are going to add their stuff are going to add their own stuff without the company ever knowing about it and just seeing sales numbers for boxed cake. Every time someone buys a kit for conversion purposes, all GW sees is the kit getting sold.

 

12 hours ago, Dark Legionnare said:

Welp, that's our first hard house-rule right out of the gate before the edition is already out. GW.  Across the 8 marine armies in our playgroup, at least 5 (my own crimson fists included) have sternguard that love sailing around in rhinos and razorbacks.

 

12 hours ago, Large and Moving Torb said:

The Tactical unit comp change is really obnoxious. I have a small Dark Angels army with a Razorback and was planning on adding another with a five-man Tac squad. I guess that is going to have to be a second Devastator squad now, just with bolters so I can take my second RB.

I expect this will not be uncommon. The nice thing about what we've seen so far is that, for those lucky enough to have a common play group, house-ruling seems really easy to do. The other thing I could see happening is the Codex including rules like Votann and other Factions have for splitting a single squad between two transports.

 

 

12 hours ago, Karhedron said:

If I am reading this right, Stormravens can now carry Primaris Dreadnoughts. I think my Brutalis just found a ride! 

 

 

11 hours ago, Paradogmatic said:

 

I don't think it does because the Redemptor for example has they keyword 'Redemptor Dreadnought' not 'Dreadnought'.  This one will probably need clarification to keep people happy

 

EDIT: HUH - I just noticed the Brutalis has both 'Dreadnought' and 'Brutalis Dreadnought' -- I guess unless they change it that one does work. That has to be an error

 

Maybe, maybe not. It fits with the idea of some of the keyword choices and interactions being about how the Design Studio wants things to work: Stormravens have always been a Dreadought-transport, so it should be able to transport at least one new Dread kit and it would really cool for that to be the Brutalis.

 

 

8 hours ago, Arkhanist said:

There's still gaps - no equivalent of assault marines or vanguard veterans for example, or several of the devastator options. (and the primaris missile guys are urgggh). And BA death company and sanguinary guard - the total backbone of the faction in 9th - are firstborn only still.

 

There's plenty of consolidation they could do with the current datasheets though, and even combine a bunch of firstborn and primaris units ala sternguard* under one datasheet. But stuff like bikes, land speeders, captains, lieutenants, apothecaries, chaplains could all share sheets with just the back having the appropriate loadout options - it's not like there's not space, and just ditch the firstborn/primaris split in most cases AND the 'this kit has THIS datasheet, and that kit with slightly differentoptions gets THAT sheet'. You could even do the same for most of the dreadnoughts. People can play with old models with current datasheets if they want to (just as you can currently play with the ancient, tiny RTB01 marines) or use their bigger cousins if they prefer the proportions. Block rhinos from taking gravis and terminators, sure, but why can they not take phobos and tacitus when land raiders can? It's stupid.

 

Hell, even for primaris you could probably combine stuff like hellblasters and infernus into one sheet, and it's mad to have so many different damn phobos lieutentants.

 

Sure some base sizes might be different, but they didn't care about when they did the bump to 32mm for firstborn (and 40mm for terminators) and base size has never been consistent in the official rules. But they are working SOO hard to make everyone buy a new army of primaris even if they don't want to, without wanting to deal with the backlash that dropping firstborn entirely would rightly engender, so this monstrosity of a list is the result.

 

* obviously without doing the whole combi-weapons thing.

6 hours ago, Tymell said:

 

Yep, agreed. So many of these are basically just the same thing but with a different suit of armour or load-out. 

 

I talked about a lot of related stuff above, but that is one thing I heartily agree with. A person can now make a Firstborn army will all "Primaris" units and vice-versa.

 

 

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

See here's the problem, and that's assuming we should just go along with what GW wants us to do because they say so. They have no actual power over us, ESPECIALLY nowadays.

 

*SNIP*

 

Like I say, this isn't some kind of rage against the machine styled rant- if you like 10th, that's fine. But the way certain posters seem to act like GW is right to do what they want because GW wants to do it and GW is always right and we should just accept it is a little tiresome. Because no, nobody has to accept it- if they don't like it then they're more than welcome to say as much and are also more than welcome to point people to other options.

*SNIP*

 

TLDR: What GW wants doesn't matter. What the player wants is the only thing that matters and if GW does not deliver it, the player is under no obligation to use what GW produces.

You're right, we're living in a golden age of game options. GW has a deathgrip on market-share, however, and that does give them power in some ways. It would take me an active effort to get local players to try out something like Future Fire Fight, but they all know 40k. Could it be worth the effort? Maybe, and that will vary from person to person, group to group. Sometimes it's just easier to go to McDonalds than convince everyone to try the new Jamaican-Argentinian fusion place.

[Brother Lunkhead]

=][=

 

While the general content has remained constructive, a few fraters are posting in a manner that is not advancing this conversation in a healthy direction and some are getting a bit agitated as a result. I urge you to think carefully before you post and keep your thoughts here constructive and relevant.

 

=][=

 

[Marshal Reinhard]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Am I the only one who thinks that scouts going to 2W was unnecessary?

Actually very interested/hopefull of the implication this has

[macradam_hue]

As a non competitive player that returned in 8th (so almost wholely primaris) I'm really pleased with this index. It feels like there are reasons to bring different units in terms of options and rules - it feels like different units bring much more of a flavour and purpose now, even if they aren't 'meta' or whatever. 

 

Biggest personal win is bigger squads of Outriders - 3 max felt rubbish

[Orange Knight]

31 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Actually very interested/hopefull of the implication this has

 

I'm hoping they are refreshing the models. I really like the Black Templar Neophytes, and updated Scouts that look like those will be a big improvement. 

[Cpt.Danjou]

After seeing that pile of datasheet cards, I am happy that I stopped playing Space wolves in the 8th, and you guys who play World Eaters and Votanns should be happy that you have so few units to choose from.  ;) The most fun thing about those datasheets, is that in 6 months they are out of date, because GW with their almighty wisdom, will change the online datasheets, changing wordings/wargear/abilities. So then everyone who bought them will have a nice paperweight.

 

Cpt. Danjou

 

 

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

Scouts went up to two wounds???

 

Well , maybe I’ll be giving ‘combat patrols’ with my scouts and scout bikes a try, then. In small games they might actually do decent by themselves. Bit annoying snipers can’t take heavy bolters anymore given my current proxy setup but I have a sniper proxy I can use instead. 

[Dr. Clock]

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

That's brutal, Doc. 2000 point game?  Was the enemy mostly monsters?

It was a bit brutal, yes. 2000 pts; pretty wide mix of stuff: 30 termigants, 15 horms, 3x3 shooty warriors, Flyrant, 2xCarnies, Trygon, Deathleaper, 2x10 Stealers, Prime, Broodlord. By his turn 3 he had 20 termigants, horms, Broodlord and Deathleaper , 2x3 warriors, and badly wounded Prime left... I'd lost ~8 assault intercessors and 3 hellblasters, but his heavy hitters all got walked off before they could connect basically.

 

Basically feels like if you don't get the charge or fights first, it's an uphill road with Nids. He tried to use Stealers up front to challenge/trade on objectives but assault intercessors took them apart pretty easy... He'd have been better off threatening stealers turn 2 assault from behind a hormie/termie creen than handing me a first turn charge because I don't really have much turn 1 anti-infantry fire. Oh well - think he learned something anyway: stealers are not for trading, they're for counter-assault. Now what I'm worried about is mostly Von Ryan's Leapers - Strike First is a big deal.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Karhedron]

7 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

A little lame Sternguard can't be joined by Firstborn characters, but frankly they suck in melee and I'd rather Assault Marines now anyway.

 

Blood Angel Sternguard get 5 S5 attacks on the charge, that's going to put a dent in something.

[MasterDeath]

3 hours ago, Silas7 said:

 

 Keep an invictor warsuit around to punish whatever is trying to thin your reivers out, some room to play mental games here. Do I focus the Reivers before they reach my lines and take some shots back or do I need to kill/pin-down the warsuits and risk having some squads get shocked and stay shocked.

I assume thats what marines will be about. Unit to Unit interactions. The CSM Preview mentioned something Like that

[Karhedron]

6 hours ago, Dark Shepherd said:

Might have to recheck this but Phobos Librarian attached to a unit of Eliminators is going to take a lot effort to, emm, eliminate

 

True but Sniper Scouts get the same rule of being untargetable outside 12" too. Granted their sniper rifles aren't as good as Eliminators but you can take them in bigger squads and I suspect the points saved by not needing the Libby will pay for quite a few extra Scouts. I haven't tried crunching the numbers but my hunch is quantity trumps quality. Plus the Scouts are 2W too now.

[Zoatibix]

My main army is Tyranids. That was a very painful read. 
 

I take the points on points and possible tactical errors…but by the sound of it the Nids got their arses absolutely handed to them in CC as well as shooting. 

And yes, this is just one game.

 

Did the Nids get to do anything cool…or even just successfully…? 

 

[Dried]

8 hours ago, Dried said:

I don't understand something. When I have different toughness in the same unit (ATC in outriders, calgar with his Citrix) what toughness value so I use for the wound roll (done before allocating the attack)?

Can't find it in the rules.

Anyone knows the answer?

I can see 2 datasheet at least with mixed Toughness (Outriders and Calgar).

I just checked in the English dataseets and it's the same.

[Malakithe]

2 hours ago, Dr. Clock said:

Strike First is a big deal.

Sounds like BGV + Judge Judi is going to be a auto-include

[Orange Knight]

1 hour ago, Dried said:

Anyone knows the answer?

I can see 2 datasheet at least with mixed Toughness (Outriders and Calgar).

I just checked in the English dataseets and it's the same.

 

You wound to roll against the models you are hitting. The bodyguard are always the target unless the weapon has precision.

 

Assume Calgar and his two Victrix have joined a unit of Bladeguard Veterans; You would simply target the Bladeguard, and then the Victrix. Even though Calgar comes with the Victrix, he's the only one with the character keyword.

 

Snipers could target Calgar himself directly and would roll against his toughness. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Orange Knight

[Doobles57]

28 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

You wound to roll against the models you are hitting. The bodyguard are always the target unless the weapon has precision.

 

So you would simply target the Bladeguard, and then the Victrix. 

 

Snipers could target Calgar himself and would roll against his toughness. 

While that's very likely the intent with Calgar, he and the honour Guard are a unit that is attached. Once the Bladeguard are dead, Calgar are Victrix are just a unit, not a leader and bodyguard. 

 

Similarly there's no answer I can find to the Outrider with atv question. Guessing a faq is in order for mixed toughness units. 

[Orange Knight]

That may well be true. Although it would probably be in his favour if he was the direct target. Higher toughness and a FNP roll. 

 

The opponent would have to declare the target.

[jimbo1701]

So the reiver lt is still useless right?

[Arkhanist]

35 minutes ago, Doobles88 said:

While that's very likely the intent with Calgar, he and the honour Guard are a unit that is attached. Once the Bladeguard are dead, Calgar are Victrix are just a unit, not a leader and bodyguard. 

 

Similarly there's no answer I can find to the Outrider with atv question. Guessing a faq is in order for mixed toughness units. 

 

The rule for Deathwatch in 9th (the only one I know of that was left) was that you targeted the majority toughness, and in the event of a tie the controlling player picked. I expect we'll see a similar answer in a FAQ, since they seem to have kept working to eliminate mixed toughness units in most cases; even character toughness has been adjusted to match their bodyguard unit in some cases.

[Blindhamster]

6 minutes ago, jimbo1701 said:

So the reiver lt is still useless right?

the unit? Not really, they all have precision in melee and ranged, which means they can just assassinate characters regardless of bodyguards.

they force battleshock every fight phase for any unit theyre in melee with and make it harder to pass battleshock in the first place, AP modifiers are less common than they were so their lack of one feels less bad

Edited June 10, 2023 by Blindhamster