Index: Blood Angels

[xxxjtmxxx]

but points?

[Goranged]

22 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

@BlindhamsterPersonally, I'd rather run a SPriest with Vanguard Vets, or Librarian if I'm going cheap. The difference between AP-1 and -2 on the squad is huge!

 

though going whole hog with a priest and captain seems like it could be really nasty! 
 

ten 2w bodies with 3+/4++/5+++ (plus two 4+ W bodies), and 5+ attacks on the charge at S7+ each has its appeal...

dante + 10x vv + sp

chapi + 10 dc

termi cap + 5x termis with chainfist

10x voids men at arms ( oc2)

5 heavy intercessors (oc2)

3 5x RAS

1 Whirwind

1 Glad Lancer

 

—- other options

change HI for Sniper Scouts (2w, good char killer and stealth++)

change Chapi with Lemartes(-1 dmg)

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Goranged

[Blindhamster]

21 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

@BlindhamsterPersonally, I'd rather run a SPriest with Vanguard Vets, or Librarian if I'm going cheap. The difference between AP-1 and -2 on the squad is huge!

 

though going whole hog with a priest and captain seems like it could be really nasty! 
 

ten 2w bodies with 3+/4++/5+++ (plus two 4+ W bodies), and 5+ attacks on the charge at S7+ each has its appeal...

Just think most marine lists probably want a captain now to make stratagems more viable. 

[Karhedron]

Grav Devs in a pod would definitely put a dent in Knights, even without OOM (better with, obviously). I think 24" range is probably enough to avoid being screened out against more balanced armies. Is a pod the best option or would some other Transport have mileage?

 

21 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

in the above list... if you dropped astorath and the 10 DC

 

you'd save 410 points...

 

2x5 devastators with lascannons is only 240

1x10 tacticals with grav and a hammer or fist would be 175 for 415

 

Which is fair. However at that point I assume we would be looking to run GSF rather than SoS?

[Blindhamster]

22 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Which is fair. However at that point I assume we would be looking to run GSF rather than SoS?

Honestly, I think purely objectively GSF works better for jump pack heavy armies that want to charge simply because it gives a tool that lets you do it better (by actually improving the potential to get there)

 

SoS is just not a good one because it shoehorns you into a one dimensional method of play that is going to be the equivalent of telegraphing your attacks in any kind of real fighting. It provides absolutely nothing to units that aren’t charging, whilst GSF will let you mimic overcharged engines on your tanks once a game, it’ll let your slightly less combat orientated units fall back, shoot and then charge again if needed and it’ll let you combat units get across the table to do their thing more quickly.

 

but

 

using SoS and simply accepting that you’re taking it purely for flavour or to buff a couple of specific hard hitting units is totally fine too (and is probably what I’ll do too most of the time), even if you were to stick with the above list, swapping the DC for a second vanguard unit and dropping a captain with them instead of astorath and then replacing the vindicators with the 2xdevs and the tacticals still feels better

 

EDIT

to elaborate a bit more, I view the SoS detachments failings as:

• incredibly one-dimensional, moreso than any other detachment
• total lack of movement abilities on an army that relies on getting to combat quickly
• core detachment bonus is unique of the melee detachment bonuses for not being "always on", not even "first round", it requires playing so aggressively that it feels bad as is.
• trying to capitalise on the detachment bonus be going "all in" on assault feels like a trap because you simply arent going to get the charge off all the time, and there's only so many units you can fall back and charge with when its a stratagem (another reason for a captain to feel especially important in blood angels armies). Assault also simply doesn't give us the tools for tank hunting or monster hunting and taking ranged combat units "feels bad" because they will get no benefit at all from the detachment bonus (an issue templars have on two of their options - but at least they get options and their melee ones work 100% of combat rounds)

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Blindhamster

[Paladin777]

53 minutes ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

but points?

470, compared to the 430 for 10 SG without a leader. 

[xxxjtmxxx]

SG is not an option for me at the moment

[Karhedron]

I am reconsidering SG. At more points than Terminators, on the face of it, they look over-costed.

 

But they do have quite a few buffs. -1 to Hit in Melee, -1 to Wound as long at the WL is in the squad and OC2 are quite good buffs. Terminators having a 4++ is nice but in an edition noted for lower AP, it is only going to make a difference against the heaviest attacks. Even power fists won't discriminate. SG have a big advantage in terms of mobility too.

 

I still think SG are over-priced compared to Terminators but perhaps not by as much as it looks at first glance. A Jump Captain as WL works very nicely with them.

[Blindhamster]

Another battle report:

Spoiler

 

This time blood angels vs necrons, another loss for blood angels. This Blood Angels list leant hard into the detachment and took a bunch of characters.

[DemonGSides]

I think necrons are just busted right now. Reanimation protocols has more synergy in a single army than the rest of the games armies combined. 

[Paladin777]

Except for maybe GSC. 

[DemonGSides]

GSC does look ok as well I haven't played much against them over the years. Necrons were ok in 9th but they are on a new level with the different protocol nonsense they got going on now.

[Morticon]

6 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

I think necrons are just busted right now. Reanimation protocols has more synergy in a single army than the rest of the games armies combined. 

 

So interesting after the initial gripe fest about reanimation. 

I'm curious how quickly people switch over to Gladius (if at all)

[Xenith]

On 6/17/2023 at 1:05 PM, Karhedron said:

 

At this point I see no reason not to give every SG a plasma or Inferno pistol. Same with Death Company.

 

Been that way since they dropped points for upgrades in Arks - every death co marines comes with free inferno pistol and power sword! 

 

Maybe the prices SG to be the same, assuming every model took a fist and inferno?

 

Not looked at the BA index too much, great to see the analysis by you guys. Vanvets still seems a decent option, but DC seem to be the winners maybe?

[Rhavien]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

Maybe the prices SG to be the same, assuming every model took a fist and inferno?

Unfortunately you can only take 1 fist per 5 man. Pistols are not restricted, so feel free to unleash the inferno 

 

Regarding the winterseo batrep: I guess the BA player fell for the character trap that @Blindhamster and others already have stated. His army was ridiculously small because he took nearly everything with a rank and name on it. 

[Xenith]

4 minutes ago, Rhavien said:

Unfortunately you can only take 1 fist per 5 man. Pistols are not restricted, so feel free to unleash the inferno 

 

 

That's what I'm wondering - if the point cost was based on the possible 9th ed loadout, while the datacards were changed themselves. 

Bit annoying as my SG are 50/50 fists to other weapons, so I might just use them as Fists Encarmine! 

[Paladin777]

Yeah, that list looks pretty horrendous, to be honest. I don't think I'd run more than 3 leaders, and no more than one of them being one of the expensive names leaders. 
 

notable exception might be the apothecary biologis in a 6 strong squad of aggressors because he's cheap and is probably fantastic with them. 

[Blindhamster]

Cheap leaders are probably fair game, but yeah I think you want no more than one on the expensive side.

 

and I’m convinced you really want at least some battle line or other OC2 units too

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Paladin777 said:

notable exception might be the apothecary biologis in a 6 strong squad of aggressors because he's cheap and is probably fantastic with them. 

 

Boltstorm particularly. With a 6-man squad that is an average of 39 shots so 6-7 auto-wounds from shooting alone. In melee that is likely to be 3 auto-wounds from the Fists.

 

The only thing that makes me hesitate slightly that Aggressors weapons are all twin-linked meaning that auto-wounds are not quite such a big buff for them. 

 

I wonder if it would be worth adding Bolter Discipline? That means your 6s also explode. In the Devastator Doctrine, your Hits explode and auto-wound on 5+. 

[Xenith]

Hopefully this isn't a 'start of 8th ed' thing where the US tourney scene claimed that BA were the strongest marines because assault cannons were great and BA could take the most assault cannons...

 

Personally I feel that characters have usually been a trap, possibly moreso now when they can't go off and hunt things on their own, or tank wounds for the unit. 

 

My personal rule is to try and have no more than 10% of my army be characters, ideally much less unless they can have a serious impact on the game in their own right. I find that units do the heavy lifting, and scrore better. 

 

Mephy with fights first and tycho adding assault to bolters, then getting 12A might be worth the price of admission, likewise Lemartes with the -1D buff, otherwise probably just be taking the basic sang priest. 

[Xenith]

5 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

In the Devastator Doctrine, your Hits explode and auto-wound on 5+

 

Did they clarify the interaction between stuff that has lethal hits and sustained hits? So do the bonus hits from sustained automatically wound like lethal hits, or do they have to roll to wound as normal and don't benefit from the other special rules.

 

I think in 9th they had to rol lto wound as normal, and bonus hits didn't benefit from other rules. 

[Blindhamster]

9 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

Did they clarify the interaction between stuff that has lethal hits and sustained hits? So do the bonus hits from sustained automatically wound like lethal hits, or do they have to roll to wound as normal and don't benefit from the other special rules.

 

I think in 9th they had to rol lto wound as normal, and bonus hits didn't benefit from other rules. 

No sustained hits have to roll to wound as normal 

[Karhedron]

38 minutes ago, Xenith said:

My personal rule is to try and have no more than 10% of my army be characters, ideally much less unless they can have a serious impact on the game in their own right. I find that units do the heavy lifting, and scrore better. 

 

Interesting. Have I been seduced by the shiny synergies on offer? Is "more boys, fewer toys" the way to go?

[Paladin777]

I might go as high as 15% on characters, but overall I agree. Boys over Toys does seem the way to go. 
 

it really seems like Hero-Hammer is dead, and I'm actually pretty OK with that. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Paladin777

[Paladin777]

@KarhedronOnly half your shots are TL on bolter aggressors. The 3.5+ (from Blast) from the grenade launcher aren't.