Space Wolves Index

[Marshall Bretton]

So I feel that the changes actually fit with what I was going to try and do for my army.

 

Holding back field with Phobos units for the deep strike denial and some dreds for firepower, probably with Bjorn now. That is potentially a decent tank busting capability if loaded right.

 

Using an elite alpha/beta strike with counts as Ragnar leading BGV (now they can use drop pods) with wg terms and maybe some more BGV. Bring them all down turn 2 or the pods turn 1 and the terms turn 2 depending on the situation.

 

Scatter various leaders throughout for buffs as required.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Fael'Tearmunn said:

Question for you folks: how do we bust tanks open now? Now that S10 is gone on both Wulfens and TWCs, how do you guys plan on killing tanks without going full vanilla units?

 

That is a tough one. Our bespoke units are not well kitted out for tank hunting now. Probably the best option is Long Fangs with 5 Grav Cannons in a drop pod. Not marvellous as you can't add most buffing Characters. 5 Lascannons may be slightly better as at least you can start off stationary so you hit on 3s and Reroll 1s. 5 moving Grav cannons in a pod average 6 wounds on a Land Raider. 5 Stationary Lascannons average 5.6 Wounds. The Lascannons pull ahead vs T11 and lower but are worse vs T13+.

 

The other option is the Hellfrost Destructor on the Stormfang although it is only 1-shot.

 

Beyond that I think it is vanilla unit or an equivalent. Our TDA can mix a tasty selection of weapons including Chainfists and can be buffed up to the eyeballs, particularly if you have a Character like Ulrik leading them who is a massive force multiplier as well and giving out a handy 6+++. 

[Bouargh]

I will ring a more positive bell: I am not as disapointed as I expected I would be.

Really. I was expecting harder hits. I am still satisfied by the overall dynamic (especially the fact that the WG squad leaders remain, although they will be mechanically limited by the rule of 3 - but in typical game sizes, you can almost field 8 easily). Getting GH at 5-10 size is also great for Razorback spamming.

 

Of course we have all these puzzeling issues (1 wound scouts, loss of CCW on Termies with HW...) that are of concern. Especially because of their accumulation.

 

As most (or this is how I interprete the coments), I will probably not use the SW detachment and go to Gladius detachment instead. 

 

 But my biggest concern is the codex release date: getting such an index to be potencialy used for a very long time before getting a proper codex is  IMHO problematic. What was the rumoured publishing dtae for SW Codex? 2 years perspective or so? 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

13 minutes ago, Bouargh said:

 

 But my biggest concern is the codex release date: getting such an index to be potencialy used for a very long time before getting a proper codex is  IMHO problematic. What was the rumoured publishing dtae for SW Codex? 2 years perspective or so? 

I'm not aware of a rumored release date, however, we are verified to have to wait for at least 1 year as we are not in the release schedule that gw put out taking us to spring next year, so summer next is the soonest but will likely be longer.

[Wraithwing]

I would wager that 10th edition is going to be the new format for 40K moving forward, like Age of Sigmar. 
 

Even if our book drops just before 11th, it will still be the same mechanics in the game. 

[Triszin]

Desolation squads fill a gap wolves had.

Indirect

Anti tank

[Starlight_Wolf]

47 minutes ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

I'm not aware of a rumored release date, however, we are verified to have to wait for at least 1 year as we are not in the release schedule that gw put out taking us to spring next year, so summer next is the soonest but will likely be longer.

Taking a rough stab and using 9th as precedent I'd guess they'll release the marine codexes pretty close together, not going to put a solid date down, but I'd be hoping for Autumn 2024, if not maybe Spring 2025 (Based on marines being Autumn 203, DA being Spring 2024),

 

Though I could be completely off the mark, but summer 2024 would likely be predominantly AoS 4th (as that would mark the 3 year mark of the system, and be inline with the Indomitus/AoS 3rd release pattern) so would expect a quieter period for 40k around then as they push the new products for that system.

 

I do preface this by saying this is all pretty WILD speculation on my part, and can't remember how long the transition was between index and codex in 8th (probably a better comparison than 9th in hindsight as by 6 months in I think we had most the non compliant Marine codexes out by that point).

 

For know, I guess it is a case of suck it up and I'll be cracking out Phobos wolves with some Long fangs and BGV with Ragnar to deter anything getting too close. Playing midfield was always one of our strengths, and I'm hopeful that after yesterday we can find some more positives to take forward until the codex glow up occurs (upside is our index to codex switch will hopefully be far more impactful comparative to the other chapters)

[Karhedron]

29 minutes ago, Triszin said:

Desolation squads fill a gap wolves had.

Indirect

Anti tank

 

I am not convinced Desolation squads are the answer. S10 will be wounding on 5s against most heavier vehicles and they cannot have Characters attached who buff that firepower (no Lts for instance). They will do a nice job on lighter vehicles like Eldar Grav Tanks but Codex Marines will likely be using OOM to get mileage out of them for serious anti-tank duty which means Gladius rather than our custom detachment.

 

Mind you, a lot of people sound like they will be going that way anyway.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

10 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

I am not convinced Desolation squads are the answer. S10 will be wounding on 5s against most heavier vehicles and they cannot have Characters attached who buff that firepower (no Lts for instance). They will do a nice job on lighter vehicles like Eldar Grav Tanks but Codex Marines will likely be using OOM to get mileage out of them for serious anti-tank duty which means Gladius rather than our custom detachment.

 

Mind you, a lot of people sound like they will be going that way anyway.

We also have OoM even with our custom Detachment, OoM is the army ability not the detachment ability 

[Karhedron]

3 minutes ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

We also have OoM even with our custom Detachment, OoM is the army ability not the detachment ability 

 

My mistake, you are quite right. OK, that may change the calculus on Desolators. However if we are looking at vanilla units, the good old Vindicator is pretty tasty and definitely viable for anti-tank work.

 

[Kallas]

Both the Vindicator and the Whirlwind are looking solid.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Also for buffing desolation you can add a primaris libraian with bolter discipline. This will give their guns sustained hits. It is the only buff character they can take however so it is definitely light on choices.

 

I do really like the Vindicator, and my squadron of 3 might see some play this edition depending on points. If they total 400 points give or take 10 points I would say they are definitely worth hitting the field 

[Kallas]

[rant]

Spoiler

16 minutes ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

Also for buffing desolation you can add a primaris libraian with bolter discipline.

Love that you can attach characters to Desolation Squads, Hellblaster Squads and Eradicator Squads, but not Devastator Squads. Seems totally reasonable  (It is only Librarians, Ancients and Apothecaries, but still...c'mon...)

[/rant]

 

16 minutes ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

I do really like the Vindicator, and my squadron of 3 might see some play this edition depending on points. If they total 400 points give or take 10 points I would say they are definitely worth hitting the field 

Yeah, at that kind of points range they'd definitely have some good value potential. Unlike previous editions they can really mix it up with their targets: Blast helps a lot in giving consistency to the big guns, and at d6+3 shots they're already not too bad. And Siege Shield is just funny for popping units that think they can tie them up in melee 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Kallas

[jpwyrm]

Funny enough, I have painted two Vindicators at the end of 9th for an event. They were okayish, very swingy of course, but I always had a soft spot for the Vindicator. I'm very happy with the new dataslate and think they might see more action in 10th (even though last time I swore it was the last time I used them!).

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Has anyone sent some feedback to GW? I am looking for a template for a respectful email. At least regarding the big errors?-wolf scouts and wg terminators? Is there anything else that’s a glaring error? I want to be as respectful as possible. But they did a poor job. I expect better from an editing and design point of view.

 

Remember when the Sonic the Hedgehog movie went back to the drawing board when the wider internet coached them on their errors. This is our sonic moment. 

[tetsuhau]

32 minutes ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

Has anyone sent some feedback to GW? I am looking for a template for a respectful email. At least regarding the big errors?-wolf scouts and wg terminators? Is there anything else that’s a glaring error? I want to be as respectful as possible. But they did a poor job. I expect better from an editing and design point of view.

 

Remember when the Sonic the Hedgehog movie went back to the drawing board when the wider internet coached them on their errors. This is our sonic moment. 

 

Now I know a lot of people will breeze past this thinking it won't change anything and it might not, for sure, but hey can't hurt right? Like not saying I know how to build this game and balance the entire 40k ruleset, but I think we can all agree this is bad. 

[Starlight_Wolf]

When your army's index is one of two held up as one that has had the army be gutted, I'd say there's definite room for feedback. 

 

Worst we can do is drop an email and if enough land they may accelerate the incoming FAQs at the very least (they have to be coming since I saw in the Chaos index 3 forces rhinos lack 'firing deck' yet others don't, among other issues) :)

[TiguriusX]

10th edition is a shooting game

 

Melee is bad

 

-You get overwatched and cant prevent it (can be done in movement phase...fire bad!)

-Melee is bad at killing high T

 

Indirect and other shooting will be big

Bring lone operator type units to counter indirect

 

Vindicators + LS are my first army to test

High T defense and high S gun

 

Desolators (chaff objective killer using Oath of moment and multiple squads) + whirlwind (d cannon killer)

 

10th SW is not going to remotely resemble 9th SW

[Starlight_Wolf]

19 minutes ago, TiguriusX said:

10th edition is a shooting game

 

Melee is bad

 

-You get overwatched and cant prevent it (can be done in movement phase...fire bad!)

-Melee is bad at killing high T

 

Indirect and other shooting will be big

Bring lone operator type units to counter indirect

 

Vindicators + LS are my first army to test

High T defense and high S gun

 

Desolators (chaff objective killer using Oath of moment and multiple squads) + whirlwind (d cannon killer)

 

10th SW is not going to remotely resemble 9th SW

 

Can anyone remember when 40k wasn't solidly shooting oriented?

 

I started in 5th when charges from Deepstrike/reserve were a thing and I know when Overwatch was brought in during 6th (oh god, the 'for the greater good' PTSD comes rushing back) it solidly shifted towards a shooting emphasis (at least in my meta) and got steadily worse as super heavies and knights became prominent, I can't honestly remember when Close combat has really come back from that point (I say this I didn't get many games of 9th in so I may have just missed the boat there)

[TiguriusX]

Just now, Starlight_Wolf said:

 

Can anyone remember when 40k wasn't solidly shooting oriented?

***

 

(I say this I didn't get many games of 9th in so I may have just missed the boat there)

9th had multiple metas where melee was king

 

And SW as counter assault were good bc of it

 

Top sisters and harlequins players during those metas hated pairing into my SW

[Wolf Guard Dan]

1 hour ago, tetsuhau said:

 

Now I know a lot of people will breeze past this thinking it won't change anything and it might not, for sure, but hey can't hurt right? Like not saying I know how to build this game and balance the entire 40k ruleset, but I think we can all agree this is bad. 

If we want traction we have to get buy in from the other factions. Asking your friends to send an email in support is what we need to do. Yesterday was a bit weird that even other factions were coming on the News thread to offer their condolences on what happened to our faction. 

[tetsuhau]

19 minutes ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

If we want traction we have to get buy in from the other factions. Asking your friends to send an email in support is what we need to do. Yesterday was a bit weird that even other factions were coming on the News thread to offer their condolences on what happened to our faction. 

 

I can set my gaming group to task. We better to get a template letter?

[Wispy]

1 hour ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

If we want traction we have to get buy in from the other factions. Asking your friends to send an email in support is what we need to do. Yesterday was a bit weird that even other factions were coming on the News thread to offer their condolences on what happened to our faction. 

I dont think the distinction matters.  A customer is a customer.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

31 minutes ago, Wispy said:

I dont think the distinction matters.  A customer is a customer.

Correct. We need numbers

 

2 hours ago, tetsuhau said:

 

I can set my gaming group to task. We better to get a template letter?

When I have time later I’ll try and aggregate what could be addressed with some feedback. 

[Wispy]

Oof that Wulfen sheet is looking like more of an error the next day with the new sheets coming out today.

 

I don't understand why Wulfen can't get the same treatment that terminator loadouts get. Essentially the same options as an assault terminator - claws or hammers or some sort of power weapon.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Wispy