Wh40k 10th Edition Adeptus Custodes Index

[Helycon]

Such a shame, as I love the aesthetic of the Forge World models and their rules were great for 8th edition. I do feel they dropped the ball on pretty much everything Forge World related this time around. The rules for every model just seems like a statline for a similar imperial weapon with a different name. Absolutely nothing stands out as the best weapons the imperium has to offer. It feels like they ran out of time quickly. Probably comes down to shareholders 

[Balerion84]

I kind of agree, but I am going to try Sagittarum with Coronus anyway, I think it migh be ok for non-tournament play. 

 

2x Caladius with Arachnus looks like auto take to me. 

 

And I'm also going to try Orion, even with the points cost, damn it all, that advance+charge is good and the amount of dakka it puts out is pretty nuts. Probably not good enough for the ridiculous cost, but I'll be damned if I don't try it at least once! :D

 

Ares might also be worth a try, maybe instead of the 2x Caladiuses. 

 

1x3 Venatari with lances might worth a try, they are ridiculously expensive, sure, but maybe they can make it work. 

 

Hopefully some points rebalancing will come soon. That might help make the fw stuff more usable because the rules in general are not bad I think. 

[Borbarad]

5 hours ago, Helycon said:

 I do feel they dropped the ball on pretty much everything Forge World related this time around. The rules for every model just seems like a statline for a similar imperial weapon with a different name.

While I agree with that weapon (and model profiles) don't live up to expectations, I would not say that all the choices are per se bad.

 

Here is my 50 cents on the Custodes FW choices:

 

The Good

(Good data sheets with a proper role)

Calladius Grav-Tank: Good anti-tank gun, good platform, good reliability. Fills the gap of ranged anti-tank.

 

Sagittarum Custodians: Longer range shooting with decent rules on top. Custodes don't struggle with anti-infantry so these might be less atratcive than previously, but otherwise not bad.

 

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought: Better and cheaper than the regular Contemptor. Despite losing some stats, it still delivers >D2 in combat that can fill a gap in the Custodes army. Decent amount of mortal wounds on the charge if tank shocking.

 

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought: Good defensive profile for not too expensive of a price. Could be an interesting alternative for a Custodes squad against armies that generally struggle with higher toughness.

 

Coronus Grav-Carrier: Fast and tough transport for a much cheaper price than before. The fire support isn't as useful in Custodes as it might be in other armies. Overall ok, but it might struggle to find a role in this particular army.

 

The Bad

(Fundamentally bad data sheets)

 

Custodian Guard with Adrasite and Pyrithite Spears: Pyrithite could have been interesting if they could double shoot. Overall a bad package for a ridiculously steep price. 

 

Aquilon Custodians: Side-grade to the Allarius at best for a considerably higher price. Their long-range armament options don't match their rules. Flamer / claw option might see play against hordes.

 

Agamatus Custodians: Just as the Vertus, their profile and cost is a mis-match. Their guns must have been better to really capitalize on their once-per-game rule.

 

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought: Underwhelming profile, which is essentially a more survivable but less klily Redemptor. It's not bad, but not great either.

 

The Ugly

(Good data sheets that are too expensive)

 

Venatari Custodians: Interesting data sheet with actually good rules. Could fill a gap in the Custodes lineup. Too expensive at the moment, but if the price goes down they will see play.

 

Pallas Grav-attack: Too expensive for what it can do. Probably doesn't have a clear role, but for 90 points it could be an interesting points gap filler and harassing unit.

 

Orion Assault Dropship: Interesting guns and interesting rules. Too expensive at the moment, but for a cheaper price it could see play.

 

Ares Gunship: Cheaper then the Orion but probably still too expensive. Good anti-tank armament; for a cheaper price it could see play.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Borbarad

[Balerion84]

Agree with that write up. Except for Pallas, I don't really see a role for it. It's not going to hunt vehicles and neither elite infantry I think. The gun si too weak, the speed isn't amazing, OC is low... not sure what it's supposed to be doing honestly. 

 

I think Telemon has more of a role than Pallas. 

 

Also here's a question I saw on reddit. Can an Inquisitor join Sagittarum? Which ability takes precedence, the one of the leader joining (in which case shield captain wouldn't be able to join sagittarum) or the unit being joined? :D

 

I really want to put Kyria and squad of Sagittarum in coronus. :D

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Balerion84

[Borbarad]

1 hour ago, Balerion84 said:

Agree with that write up. Except for Pallas, I don't really see a role for it. It's not going to hunt vehicles and neither elite infantry I think. The gun si too weak, the speed isn't amazing, OC is low... not sure what it's supposed to be doing honestly. 

 

I think Telemon has more of a role than Pallas. 

 

I think you are making a good point here. 
 

What is the role of the Pallas in 30k? Does it at least make sense there?

[Balerion84]

27 minutes ago, Borbarad said:

I think you are making a good point here. 
 

What is the role of the Pallas in 30k? Does it at least make sense there?

Yeah, in 30k it's a nice little fast fella (1-3 in a unit), with 16" move, deep strike and outflank and an anti-tank arachnus blaze cannon which rerolls all hits and needs at worst 4+ to penetrate vehicle armor (Lance keyword) and S8 (which also insta squashes anything with t4 and lower that happens to fail a save) with AP1 (so if you penetrate that armor, you can make the whole vehicle go boom on a roll of 5+, regardless how many wounds it has left). It's 2 shots, 18" range and after penetrating vehicle's armor, it can do 1 more wound on a 6+. 

 

It's a clear vehicle hunter, just like it was always in 40k too in the past. That's why I don't understand the change to Arachnus weapons in 10th. They were always anti vehicle guns, even the regular one, non-heavy arachnus. 

 

So I don't know what Pallas is supposed to do now. I don't think custodes need help with hunting infantry and it's not going to do anything against vehicles, even with +1 to wound... 

 

Actually, all other units, even bikes, have something they are (supposed to be) good at, except for Pallas in my opinion. 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Balerion84

[RenegadeKorps]

On 6/24/2023 at 9:38 AM, Balerion84 said:

Also here's a question I saw on reddit. Can an Inquisitor join Sagittarum? Which ability takes precedence, the one of the leader joining (in which case shield captain wouldn't be able to join sagittarum) or the unit being joined? :D

 

I really want to put Kyria and squad of Sagittarum in coronus. :D

 

As written, an Inquisitor can join Sagittarium. 

[Balerion84]

Hopefully it'll stay like that after faq. 

[Helycon]

On 6/24/2023 at 2:31 PM, Borbarad said:

While I agree with that weapon (and model profiles) don't live up to expectations, I would not say that all the choices are per se bad.

 

Here is my 50 cents on the Custodes FW choices:

 

The Good

(Good data sheets with a proper role)

Calladius Grav-Tank: Good anti-tank gun, good platform, good reliability. Fills the gap of ranged anti-tank.

 

 

On 6/24/2023 at 2:31 PM, Borbarad said:

Ares Gunship: Cheaper then the Orion but probably still too expensive. Good anti-tank armament; for a cheaper price it could see play.

While I agree not all is necessarily a flaming wreck and there are some good datasheets, I did feel I expected more. Perhaps some higher points as well, but they don't feel like the Elites they are quite a lot of the time. 

 

Appreciate the write-up though! I guess we'll see what the edition brings. Did need to order another box of Wardens and a second Blade Champion (that of course was sold out, but my pile of shame is large enough as-is anyway  

[Borbarad]

1 hour ago, Helycon said:

Perhaps some higher points as well, but they don't feel like the Elites they are quite a lot of the time. 

I fully agree here. I’m also quite disappointed with GW’s take on some of the data sheets, particularly the Aquilon and Telemon. 
 

While not a bad unit per se; the latter is simply a slightly sturdier redemptor with worse shooting. At least it functions as a brick I guess. 
 

The Aquilon really disappoint in terms of output. I would designed them as either elite or horde killers depending on the armament with 10A S6 AP2 D1 claw or 5A S12 AP2 D3 fist attacks each. Even if they were priced through the roof; they would at least fill a gap in the custodes line up. 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Borbarad

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Bit of an aside to index talk but weird: Blaze cannons could have been a 10-12-18 scaling  but this weird place of going from 6 to 12 to 18 means as a weapon they don't feel defined for a role. Not a fan of the smallest profile though it is a way to fish for devastating wounds but with damage 1? There are better options. 

 

Aquilons have the most issues, and are such a side upgrade and for the points I have  a few thoughts without LOWERING them.

 

First would be just fixing their weapons profiles: 

Lastrum could easily have been given rapidfire AND sustained hits 1 or 2. Giving them a full blown role of chaff slayers with the powerclaw. 

 

Fist goes without saying, just bump to str10. 8 makes ZERO sense.  

 

Talon is dandy as is, it's completely reasonable.

 

The firepike is a literal insult to custodes armory.  Give it the suppression ability. Like -2 to move and charge. That would be freaking awesome making it lower damage than lastrum but more utility for overwatch.  

 

Adrathic destructors should CLEARLY have devastating wounds.

 

The other options to fix aquilons is to change their once per game to something worth them points.  Give them a once per game: shoot everything TWICE or CC twice. That fixes the heavy assault infantry role into ACTUALLY being heavy. It also justifies their price if they are able to pull double duty one turn. 

 

 

[Balerion84]

oh I'm so mad about the arachnus profiles... the premier custodes anti tank weapon is only sometime AT

 

also, heavy arachnus profile on caladius is d6+2 while on ares and orion, the same gun is d6+1

I'm not going to accuse anyone of substance abuse, but someone was on something while writing the arachnus profiles

 

also, had my first game of 10th yesterday against necrons, it was mostly just test game to try the rules

 

4 guards with a blade champ (without veiled blade) is NOT enough to put a dent into 20 warriors with Orikan, overlord and thralls

here's how it went, 4 guards and blade champ went into this brick on t2

on t5 there was a 20 man warrior group with Orikan, overlord and thralls and no guards or blade champ

 

on the other hand, the 4 guards and blade champ were cheaper and locked them in combat for the whole game

it was also the only necron unit on the table in t4

with the guard units being cheaper, I'd take that as a moral victory, but unfortunately, the warriors were controlling the objective most of the time, so, eh

 

 

Arachnus on Caladius was sweet, doomsday arks went all Ninja and just *poof* disappeared 

 

Arachnus on the Coronus, sucked

Sagittarum jumping out of coronus t1 and together with the coronus deleting 10 immortals was nice although it was close, exactly 1 more save rolled and they'd survive

I didn't use the coronus+sag combo wombo after that, I just left the sags standing on no man's land objective for the rest of the game taking some potshots and suppressing heavy destroyers

They were not bad, but not sure how often I'll be taking them in the future.

If coronus had a proper arachnus gun, it'd be much better, right now I'm not sure if it's worth it.

 

I'm going to be taking vindicare in the future. For sure. 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Balerion84

[Dark Legionnare]

10 hours ago, Balerion84 said:

oh I'm so mad about the arachnus profiles... the premier custodes anti tank weapon is only sometime AT

 

also, heavy arachnus profile on caladius is d6+2 while on ares and orion, the same gun is d6+1

I'm not going to accuse anyone of substance abuse, but someone was on something while writing the arachnus profiles

 

also, had my first game of 10th yesterday against necrons, it was mostly just test game to try the rules

 

4 guards with a blade champ (without veiled blade) is NOT enough to put a dent into 20 warriors with Orikan, overlord and thralls

here's how it went, 4 guards and blade champ went into this brick on t2

on t5 there was a 20 man warrior group with Orikan, overlord and thralls and no guards or blade champ

 

on the other hand, the 4 guards and blade champ were cheaper and locked them in combat for the whole game

it was also the only necron unit on the table in t4

with the guard units being cheaper, I'd take that as a moral victory, but unfortunately, the warriors were controlling the objective most of the time, so, eh

 

 

Arachnus on Caladius was sweet, doomsday arks went all Ninja and just *poof* disappeared 

 

Arachnus on the Coronus, sucked

Sagittarum jumping out of coronus t1 and together with the coronus deleting 10 immortals was nice although it was close, exactly 1 more save rolled and they'd survive

I didn't use the coronus+sag combo wombo after that, I just left the sags standing on no man's land objective for the rest of the game taking some potshots and suppressing heavy destroyers

They were not bad, but not sure how often I'll be taking them in the future.

If coronus had a proper arachnus gun, it'd be much better, right now I'm not sure if it's worth it.

 

I'm going to be taking vindicare in the future. For sure. 

 

 

I took a Vindicare over the weekend thinking it'd be fun, but not terribly impactful; then felt pretty dirty using him by the end of the game. But that was him among plenty of other guns. (Guard) He killed a character per turn 1-3 without issue and it felt mean (anti-fun) on top of the usual guard fusilades of fire.

I think an army I definitely wouldn't feel dirty about taking him in is custodes; given the lack of precision and much lessened amount of guns across the faction that skewed the Vindi into "feels bad" like the aforementioned Guard game. So, give him a whirl!

Edited June 26, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Balerion84]

Indeed, I can see why he can feel mean, so I wasn't feeling right taking him in the end, but seeing how my blade champ wasn't able to do anything to Orikan in that necron warrior brick, I felt I was missing something that can deal with problematic characters properly. As you say, there's indeed lack of precision in the army it seems, gotta cover that weakness somehow.

[GenerationTerrorist]

I'm having my first game of 10th this weekend, against Thousand Sons.

Going to give a try to Trajan and a 10-man brick of Custodian Guard with Vexilla. Magnus' boys look quite strong from their Index, so hoping for a good game.

[DemonGSides]

15 hours ago, GenerationTerrorist said:

I'm having my first game of 10th this weekend, against Thousand Sons.

Going to give a try to Trajan and a 10-man brick of Custodian Guard with Vexilla. Magnus' boys look quite strong from their Index, so hoping for a good game.

 

I'm also probably taking my custodes into either a 1kSons or Votaan this Sunday.  I've got Trajann and a Blade Champion leading two 5 man Custodes squads, a knight Centura leading some Prosecutors, 1 Shield cap on Bike leading 5 Vertus Bikes, and 3 Allarus Terminators.

Probably gonna lose, but my opponent doesn't field many vehicles so it should at least be competitive.  I wish Trajann could shack up with Terminators.

[GenerationTerrorist]

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I'm also probably taking my custodes into either a 1kSons or Votaan this Sunday.  I've got Trajann and a Blade Champion leading two 5 man Custodes squads, a knight Centura leading some Prosecutors, 1 Shield cap on Bike leading 5 Vertus Bikes, and 3 Allarus Terminators.

Probably gonna lose, but my opponent doesn't field many vehicles so it should at least be competitive.  I wish Trajann could shack up with Terminators.

 

Trajann being able to join Terminators would probably be a bit broken!

 

I'm going to run him with the 10 man Guard squad, then a pair of Terminator Captains each leading 5 Allarus (4 Spears, 1 Vexilla) for Teleport shenanigans. 3 Wardens to hold backline, plus a Dawneagle Captain with Ceaseless Hunter.

 

Still tinkering with the rest of the points, but am tempted to run a solo Blade Champion or a pair of allied Assassins.

[DemonGSides]

3 hours ago, GenerationTerrorist said:

 

Trajann being able to join Terminators would probably be a bit broken!

 

I'm going to run him with the 10 man Guard squad, then a pair of Terminator Captains each leading 5 Allarus (4 Spears, 1 Vexilla) for Teleport shenanigans. 3 Wardens to hold backline, plus a Dawneagle Captain with Ceaseless Hunter.

 

Still tinkering with the rest of the points, but am tempted to run a solo Blade Champion or a pair of allied Assassins.

 

Yeah I'm splitting the C-Guard up to give each of them a unit to lead.  Might be the wrong choice, I just don't think you want any characters that don't have Lone Operative to be on their own at any time.

I think you want more bikes if you're gonna run them at all.  At least 2 to follow the Captain around on.

I'm running 6 because I have them and it gets me to a neat 2000 points last time I checked LOL

[Ulfast]

So with the new balance from GW, what do you think about te custodes? I think we still can be dangerous but have to rethink the whole army from the ground.

[DemonGSides]

There's not enough units in the army to rethink it completely. Our army rule is now basically useless, but our units are still deadly as hell and we are still the only real melee army in the game.

 

We just don't get to spam the same way we did before. And that's okay. I wish Vertus Praetors were worthwhile. 

[Toldavf]

when your army is 30 models and you drop 4 of them that's painful, as for squad size reductions i was a bit miffed to see wardens drop down from 6 while this makes sense in a way if you started custodes in 10th you got the shaft there.

The army rule doing so little now is a little much, I am unsure how the army will manage. 

[Helycon]

2 hours ago, Toldavf said:

when your army is 30 models and you drop 4 of them that's painful, as for squad size reductions i was a bit miffed to see wardens drop down from 6 while this makes sense in a way if you started custodes in 10th you got the shaft there.

The army rule doing so little now is a little much, I am unsure how the army will manage. 

You're mistaken the army rule (which is the Martial Ka'tah) and the detachment rule. The latter is currently less useful due to the devastating wounds change, whereas the army rule hasn't changed. 

 

I realise it feels pedantic, but it also means that a codex will give room for different detachment rules to shine. Doesn't mean Shield Host might not remain the same. 

 

That said, getting a lot of points increases gives more room for other units to perhaps shine. Bertus Praetors got cheaper and add a lot of mobility, as do Venatarii. 

I do hope they take a good look at some of the dreads and the Aquilon terminators. I love those models and they feel severely lacking at the moment. Same for the Sagitarum and Pyrithite and Adrasite spears. Those guys really don't need to be more expensive then regular guards. 

[Toldavf]

5 minutes ago, Helycon said:

That said, getting a lot of points increases gives more room for other units to perhaps shine. Bertus Praetors got cheaper and add a lot of mobility, as do Venatarii. 

I do hope they take a good look at some of the dreads and the Aquilon terminators. I love those models and they feel severely lacking at the moment. Same for the Sagitarum and Pyrithite and Adrasite spears. Those guys really don't need to be more expensive then regular guards. 

The bikes plain suck without a captain to deliver them and they lack bite for their cost vs some armys. GW was rightly afraid of over doing their offensive capability but they just dont have the damage potential. 

[Ulfast]

It shall be intersting to see what we can do with the new situation from the "balance" act. I hope other strategies and units will shine.

[Sete]

A bit of an unrelated question, can you ally Custodes to Admech at the moment? Or thematic armies are dead?