Thousand Sons - Datasheet Discussion

[Xenith]

EDIT:

The full list of Thousand Sons datasheets can be found on warcom here:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/13/free-chaos-index-cards-let-the-galaxy-burn-with-rules-for-six-factions/

 

 

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Faction Focus Discussion

 

The Thousand Sons Faction Focus is up, with a preview of some of our rules - Finally!

 

Use this topic for discussion the Datasheets that we've seen so far - Ahriman, Rubes and part of the Mutalith. What do you reckon?

 

Faction Focus Thousand Sons Faction Rules Discussion

 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Xenith

[Xenith]

Well it seems we've lost All is Dust, which is sad. They could have easily baked it into the datasheets with a 2+ save, however it seems that, and Disgustingly Resilient for the DG have gone the way of the dodo. 

 

The rubric unit seems ok, and I'm happy with the boost to soulreapers, which were already good. I just hope they move to 2 per 10, otherwise it'll be MSU all the way.  Warpflamers have also lost assault, so we can no longer advance and shoot, which was a great ability, but means 3x flamer and soulreaper units are usable as they will all get to shoot. On the other hand, we've also lost a point of AP on the inferno boltguns. Considering they were AP3 in 7th ed, and are supposed to offer marines no save they'll now give a save to pretty much everything. I guess this is countered by the cabal power to remove saves from a unit.

 

 

[WrathOfTheLion]

Unless its points are really bad, I think the Mutalith Vortex Beast will be a handy tech piece to extend the range of the faction powers.

 

Rubrics I think are pretty good, they're fine. Getting better at wounding when trying to knock opponents off the objective is pretty nice.

 

Ahriman is looking fine, but I kind of wish he did more. Psychic Stalk having precision means he can potentially take out enemy characters in units.p

 

All in all, I want to see what the rest of the datasheets look like.

[Tokugawa]

Ahriman T4 hints that he could join rubric unit but not terminators. What the disc will do is unknown.

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

Ahriman T4 hints that he could join rubric unit but not terminators. What the disc will do is unknown.

I would conclude that as well also, also due to his ability being named 'Rubric Lord'.

 

I'd absolutely love another set of new datasheets for Thousand Sons, but we'll need to see how the index looks. New units likely won't come until the Codex.

Edited May 27, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Ulfast]

Im a little bit disaponited. I think the rubric got worse. They lost -1M, all is dust and the gun got worse (-1AP). It seems the army need to get as much Cabala Points as possibly or we are dead. And then we know what will happend. After turn 2 when lot of things has died, we will have no power left, specially is your opponent goes first and can kill several of your units before we get enough CP. Hopefull the other stuff will make up for it but I´m sceptical at the moment.

[Paladin777]

Ahriman's sheet just kinda makes me sad. What was once the most powerful non-primarch psyker in the game has had his psychic prowess reduced to a lackluster single shot power and one free cabal ritual per game (how many faction leaders get a free strategem per turn). His bonus to rubrics is very powerful and potent, but is also pretty uninspired, in my opinion. 
 

If other sorcerers look much like Ahriman, then that will be a huge letdown. 
 

the rubrics are fine. The movement reduction hurts, as does the reduced AP (especially on the SRC), but being able to double-tap at max range all the time, the SRC having Devastating wounds, and the special rules for rerolling wounds/rending sixes really helps a lot. Rubrics will be one of the premier units for shooting enemies off objectives. 
 

the MVB seems to have the potential to be pretty useful now. I'm gonna guess that the blast mode on the Warp Vortex will probably be the most useful, though the others will likely have their time in the sun. If the MVB is priced well, it'll likely see some playtime. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Paladin777

[Sorceress]

the rubrics look great, I agree that it would be best if they could take a second soulreaper cannon if there where like 9 or more models in the unit. Even better would be to also get a rubric havocs squad with up to 4 soulreaper canons, heavy flamers or a anti tank gun. 

 

 

ahriman looks sad, the special rules are good, a bit boring but good, his attack power is just pathetic worse in most ways to the aspiring sorcerer. even the one thing it is designed for (sniping characters)  it is awful at due to its single attack and AP.

[Xenith]

 

I posted some of this in NRBA:

 

Inferno boltguns seem worse than bolt rifles - I guess sorcerous inferno shells fired from 10,000 year old cursed bolters are just plain worse than whatever cawl has come up with recently? 

 

For the TSons, I was really hoping for some reanimation-protocols style rule where they heal damage and return models. That is a new thing in the fluff from French's books - previously their souls would escape if the armour was broken, then the sorcerer could return their souls by resealing the armour and performin a ritual, but now in the lore it seems to happen automatically during battle.

 

The normal T, but regenerating rubrics would also put them in a separate design space to plague marines, so instead of having 2 tough types of red and green marine, we have one exceptionally tough one, but when it goes down it stays down, and another that is normal toughness, however recovers from wounds and keeps fighting. I'd have preferred that to the all is dust rules or the 5++. 

 

Ahriman seems weak. Psychic stalk is one shot for d6 damage, so it might not even hit, then needs 3+ to wound, then is only AP-1 so anything valuable ignores it on a 3+, then it'll do 3, maybe 4 damage. Unless he's sub 100 points, I think you're better off with more rubrics and try to burn the unit down from the offset. 

 

The single shot from the beam. It could have done with 2 and slightly reduced damage. One mega shot at BS3+ is too risky in this edition. 

 

[WrathOfTheLion]

3 hours ago, Xenith said:

Ahriman seems weak. Psychic stalk is one shot for d6 damage, so it might not even hit, then needs 3+ to wound, then is only AP-1 so anything valuable ignores it on a 3+, then it'll do 3, maybe 4 damage. Unless he's sub 100 points, I think you're better off with more rubrics and try to burn the unit down from the offset. 

 

The single shot from the beam. It could have done with 2 and slightly reduced damage. One mega shot at BS3+ is too risky in this edition. 

 

I definitely want to see Ahriman's price, he's definitely not expensive character material. I have a feeling he won't be slightly overcosted, either costed right or way overcosted.

 

The blast shot for the MVB I think is the one that will be used most of the time, even if you're trying to shoot a Rhino or something like that.

[Lucky_Lee]

I'm not going to get into a bunch of detail, but the design of 10th isn't really working for me.
They "legend'd" my Fire Raptor... While loyalist marines just keep getting new primaris kits with more on the horizon.
Rubrics look like they're made of some reinforced cardboard and shoot .22 rounds.
I've always hated that goats were put into the codex. They feel incredibly out of place and poorly thought out. (Haven't seen 10th yet to be fair.)

TBH I'm feeling generally pretty bad about 10th overall. I also feel like TSons got the shaft in 8th and 9th and I think it's gonna continue into 10th. I'm honestly waiting for the index release to decide if I want to sell all of my 40k. =(  Bleh!

[Xenith]

2 hours ago, Lucky_Lee said:

I also feel like TSons got the shaft in 8th and 9th and I think it's gonna continue into 10th

 

I think this is the Fate of the Thousand Sons and their players - to get the shaft from the powers that be! I don't feel that they have ever really done the TS justice on the table, or in a consistent manner.

 

I'm waiting until I see the rest of the sorcerer's rules before I make a judgement, however we seem to be sorely lacking any kind of offensive or staying power at the moment...

From the BA datasheets, a flat -1D on the Rubric and SOT datasheets would have been great and fluffy, just plain immunity to 1D weapons, as was our original fluff and ability (having no flesh to injure) however it seems that ship has sailed. It might be that a character can add this to a unit, in which case they'll be an auto take! 

[Lucky_Lee]

7 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

I think this is the Fate of the Thousand Sons and their players - to get the shaft from the powers that be! I don't feel that they have ever really done the TS justice on the table, or in a consistent manner.

 

I'm waiting until I see the rest of the sorcerer's rules before I make a judgement, however we seem to be sorely lacking any kind of offensive or staying power at the moment...

From the BA datasheets, a flat -1D on the Rubric and SOT datasheets would have been great and fluffy, just plain immunity to 1D weapons, as was our original fluff and ability (having no flesh to injure) however it seems that ship has sailed. It might be that a character can add this to a unit, in which case they'll be an auto take! 

Datasheets are out and at first glance Tzaangors look even worse than before. We'll see about the points, but I don't know how much lower they can go. I really do like the buffs to the tanks which were sorely needed. Still FURIOUS about my Fireraptor. I was mostly pretty "meh" about 10th until that happened. I put a lot of time and effort into that thing, it's going to be a sore spot for a long while. I'm glad I didn't buy the contemptors when they were everywhere... I'd have already rage sold everything if I had.

What really stinks about this is how pumped I was going into 8th after having quit in 5th. It's just been feels bad after feels bad. When they kept us at 1W for almost a YEAR while other codexes were getting their second wound was particularly brutal. (My meta is a bunch of loyalist Marines, Sisters and Custodes.)
Then we have terrible internal codex balance happening over 2 editions, it really does feel like they don't have anyone who wants to put effort into the codex writing. We had 3-4 dependable units, and the rest of the codex was mostly unusable trash.

To stay on track though. The Vortex Beast does look good, I'm glad to see it got a glow up. It's a shame the entire Tzaangor line sucks and I'm saying that knowing they're flak troops. After seeing cultists give a CP on enemy until kill or their own destruction, I'm really starting to doubt the 80+ goats I own and never wanted to buy. (Those box sets bruh)
Rubrics have a lot of options for offensive output which is really good, but they can't take a hit anymore. I'd wager Primaris Intercessors are tougher with similar weapons for near (or less!) points. 

Assault ramps on our land raiders. KEKW I don't think I saw a single combat focused stratagem. We certainly don't have combat troops. *Stares at pile of goats venomously* 
Predators miiiiight be an option. The increased toughness and upgraded lascannons might be good at the right points cost.
The suppression mechanic on the Forgefiend looks odd to me for some reason. Not sure why though. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Lucky_Lee

[Xenith]

Thousand Sons datasheets can be found on warcom here:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/13/free-chaos-index-cards-let-the-galaxy-burn-with-rules-for-six-factions/

[Paladin777]

I had some serious misgivings after the faction focus, but that looks like it would be pretty fun to play. Anti-tank looks like it could be an issue, but predators actually look usable if they're at the right price point. 
 

the kindred sorcerers looks a bit better than the faction focus made it look as we've actually got a fair number of multi-shot psychic power, so that's cool. 

 

Ahriman still makes me sad though...

[Lucky_Lee]

1 hour ago, Paladin777 said:

Ahriman still makes me sad though...

Insert *look how they massacred my boy* meme here.

So lazy they didn't even change his "on disc" abilities, but they did it for the Exalted Sorcerer on disc.
SMH GW showering SM with stuff is nothing new but when you only have half a codex for 2 editions and then somehow nerf our worst units (goats) and our best caster, it just blows my mind. ALSO removing our durability and FW units, I just worry for our 75page codex that will have 15 pages of rules that costs $65. For the premium we pay on this plastic I really don't feel like we're getting our money's worth. 

If it makes you feel better, you'll probably end up taking magnus now that he can hide. The devastating wounds weapons on his profile look pretty solid. 
*shrug*

Edited June 13, 2023 by Lucky_Lee

[Guzzlrr]

Thousand sons looks fun, probably still more of a thinking mans army however they look incredibly fun to play, Magnus has been buffed a fair bit which I love. Anti vehicle mat be an issue but predators and Vortex beast (X3) may be an auto include

 

Enlightened with crossbows and a shaman could be interesting for sniping as well. Quite exciting stuff

[Ahzek451]

Overall, pretty happy with what we got. The amount of synergies and combinations to have fun with for some time. It could have been worse(space wolves). My only gripes is a lack of units to join for heroes besides rubrics, ahriman being akward on a disc and having the same profile, and I'm unsure how tzaangors will play out. A lot of this will depend on points.

 

Magnus...so awesome. Again, lots of synergy. The right combos can see him setting damage to zero twice per turn of you have enough cabal and command points. And even a couple chances to re-roll an invuln. When you step back and look beyond his specific sheet, he has a lot of potential. 

[dempaattack]

Im new to 1k-sons. But the DP on foot got a 6" aura with -1 to hit. Looks kind a nice=)

[Lucky_Lee]

10 hours ago, Guzzlrr said:

Enlightened with crossbows and a shaman could be interesting for sniping as well. Quite exciting stuff

OK, ok. the last of me being a negative nelly this week I promise. But I'd bet you "dollars american" that they won't be. They're paper thin and as long as your opponent has ranged weapons they'll die like the wet paper sacks they are. And I hope I'm totally wrong. But GW hasn't let me down when I've been critical of them in 22 years. Believe it or don't, I started out as a Tau player 3rd-5th. Got sick of 10 years between codexes and came back for 8th. They fixed that but haven't stopped playing favorites with imperial armies yet. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Lucky_Lee

[Sorceress]

there are also several typos and errors in our data cards, some i am sure are mistakes like the defiler having old las cannon stats, others like the on disk sorcerers being infantry instead of mounted like the world eaters on juggernauts.

 

more tomorrow after sleep, but for anti tank i am thinking of getting a vindicator demolisher cannon looks great for cracking tanks. 

[Ahzek451]

2 hours ago, Sorceress said:

there are also several typos and errors in our data cards, some i am sure are mistakes like the defiler having old las cannon stats, others like the on disk sorcerers being infantry instead of mounted like the world eaters on juggernauts.

 

more tomorrow after sleep, but for anti tank i am thinking of getting a vindicator demolisher cannon looks great for cracking tanks. 

Dont forget that the inferno heavy bolter on the land raider is missing a pip of damage and like world eaters, our rhinos suddenly forgot they could shoot out of the top hatch. 

I appreciate the free rules, but I have been keeping up on most of the indexes and the amount of errors and typos are plentiful. 

[Ahzek451]

5 hours ago, Lucky_Lee said:

OK, ok. the last of me being a negative nelly this week I promise. But I'd bet you "dollars american" that they won't be. They're paper thin and as long as your opponent has ranged weapons they'll die like the wet paper sacks they are. And I hope I'm totally wrong. But GW hasn't let me down when I've been critical of them in 22 years. Believe it or don't, I started out as a Tau player 3rd-5th. Got sick of 10 years between codexes and came back for 8th. They fixed that but haven't stopped playing favorites with imperial armies yet. 

I'm inclined to agree a little bit, I would have hoped that enlightened received a 4++ and regular tzaangor 5++. It just depends on points on friday. Hope they are dirt cheap! If not, if I need annoying chaff then I'll look to pink horrors, but then again...they could be overcosted. 

[Lucky_Lee]

2 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

I'm inclined to agree a little bit, I would have hoped that enlightened received a 4++ and regular tzaangor 5++. It just depends on points on friday. Hope they are dirt cheap! If not, if I need annoying chaff then I'll look to pink horrors, but then again...they could be overcosted. 

I'm glad I have some Horrors laying around for that exact reason. Also the Tzaangors can't get much cheaper than 7pts. thats why im concerned about it. Might be some wiggle room on the Enlightened but with their current rules and wargear they'd have to be pretty dang cheap.

[Ahzek451]

I like rules that make sense, moreso with the lore. I appreciate tzaangor getting relic hunters back, and in an army that is heavily inentivised to get cabal points, this gives usa reason to consider them. I like how they gave chainsword wielding tzaangor an extra attack, makes you think a bit harder about which to to choose. But what truly throws them back down to "do not want" level they were previously is the 6++. really really not sure what warranted this. Unless they become dirt cheep, or maybe if shaaman become dirt cheep to try and get a 5+ FnP.....very eh. Like a lateral movement. 

However, our index is one of the only one's without some kind of sticky objective rule. We have only a couple teleporting shenanigans, and the cabal double move rule, but with slow rubrics being the meat of the army, I feel forced to take an MSU tzaangor or cultists squad to hang back and hold objectives. Again, just depends on points. But they will likely shred like paper to indirect fire, and deep strike shooting with a 6++.