Unit of the week Unit of the week (10th edition index tactica) : Helbrutes

[Cpt.Danjou]

+++Unit of the week+++

 

 

 

Helbrutes

 

How do you use Helbrutes?

• Mark
• Armament
• Role

 

This is a discussion about Helbrutes in the 10th edition index. Tell us your tactics, fun facts, your experience with them, and other things that are interesting with Helbrutes.

 

Cpt. Danjou

[Verbal Underbelly]

I've always loved them (even when they were unusable in 4th edition!) and they're absolutely great now. The extra pip of armour save makes narrative sense and the bonus to dark pacts to units nearby is too good to pass up ay?

 

I think the best use of their stats is a heavy weapon and helbrute fist with heavy flamer.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Verbal Underbelly

[WatchCaptainNavar]

I’ve given a las cannon & fist hellbrute with mark of nurgle a run out and they’re a a great buffing piece when sat in the middle of havocs and forgefiends to set off both aspects of the dark pacts which can be deadly.

 

but ……

 

1, I think there over costed by 10 to 30 points, they sit in a competitive cost bracket for other csm units maulerfiends are the same price, forgefiends are 10pts more and havocs and predators are 20pts less. I think they’ve been caught in the shadow of the new primaris dreadnoughts as they start at 175 for the balistus which have new strong and unique weapons compared to our old boy whose loyalist counterparts are going to legends. Who knows perhaps we’ll get a primaris dread sized replacement in the new codex.

 

2, Be careful not to over castle the aura buff is great but it’s very tempting to sit around the hellbrute shooting for a turn or two longer than is necessary at the expense of playing the objectives.

 

[madlibrarian]

I love them, but the question I have is does their aura mean lethal and sustained on 5’s, or just one on 5 and the other on 6’s?

[WatchCaptainNavar]

It’s the mark that grants a critical hit on a 5+ so as long as the mark matches the criteria for either shooting (nurgle and tzeentch) or fighting (slaneesh and khorne) you get both of a 5+ as that’s a critical hit, otherwise it’s both on 6s.

 

so both on 5s.

[Tallarn Commander]

I do love my Helbrutes, although, as others have noted, this edition I find my Helbrutes in the back supporting a small firebase. Whereas in previous editions they were in my 2nd assault wave in the middle of the board.

 

Madlibrarian, I've been wondering the same thing! I've been playing it as one on 5's and the other on 6's, but I've just been winging it and my opponents have not minded. :)

 

Sadly, my Helbrutes, Harry and Malcharion, have swapped out their multi-meltas for twin lascannons this edition. The poor multi-melta just seemed to do way less than in previous editions. Because now multimeltas wound most vehicles on 4s or 5s instead of the previous wounding on 3s. Also, the loss of 6 inches of range really reduced its effectiveness.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Haven't gotten a game in yet (hopefully will this upcoming weekend) but my theory hammer has a lot running on whether the aura is worth it - as can be seen from the price of the liber hereticus, GW values that aura quite a bit... and it may well be worth it, depending what is benefitting from it and how long the brute can survive.

 

I guess a big part of my reservations as to whether the rest of the datacard is worth it really comes down to its value compared to a chaos knights wardog, which are the same points (or a bit cheaper) and better in virtually every respect.  Now, chaos wardogs are almost certainly under costed at the moment but unless you want a pure index marine force, at the moment they seem to be a better choice - unless the aura (or some other army rule like the interaction of marks and stratagems) makes up for the difference.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Verbal Underbelly]

I've used a helbrute in both my games of 10th so far (nurgle marines) and I was able to give a large group of models sustained and lethal on a 5+. It was very very handy. I had him walking up the board with some squads and a predator (autocannon). Defo got some work done and I wasn't playing an optimised list at all.

 

Worth bearing in mind that he gets the benefit of his own aura too so the twin lascannon is possibly the most interesting pick for gun arm. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Verbal Underbelly

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Given the point Verbal Underbelly makes, as well as the interaction with Dark Obscuration, I think the Mark of Nurgle is the best mark for Hellbrute, letting you trigger both Dark Pact abilities on a 5+ in shooting, and allowing you to "hide" the hellbrute from enemies that are more than 12" away with dark obscuration.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

2 hours ago, madlibrarian said:

I love them, but the question I have is does their aura mean lethal and sustained on 5’s, or just one on 5 and the other on 6’s?

 

The description given in the Marks indicate that when you select X ability from Dark Pact, you then score Critical Hits on a 5+.  This last part is agnostic to whether you select Sustained or Lethal; it just says Critical Hits are scored on 5s instead of 6s.  So if you're within the aura of the Helbrute -- which says you benefit from both Sustained and Lethal Hits when Pacting -- then any hit roll of 5+ is a Critical Hit and critical effects apply (i.e., Sustained and Lethal Hits).

 

When the Index first dropped, I made a thread about Helbrutes being worth spamming because this interaction between Marks and the Brute aura is simply powerful.  As I noted in my Tournament Report thread, the application of this aura was abundantly helpful especially as it applies to vehicles and Havocs which universally want the Mark of Nurgle.  Throwing four dice on Havoc lascannons and landing six wounding hits is just beautiful.  I've been running mine with lascannons so far though just one shot dramatically decreases the usefulness of the Dark Pact on the Brute itself.  I'm theorizing using one near a Havoc squad with attached Warpsmith to increase its accuracy with that one shot as well as to repair any damage from failed Pact rolls; this would also probably work well with the plasma cannon since the Warpsmith can repair damage from Hazardous rolls to boot.

[WatchCaptainNavar]

I’m tempted to see if I can make the space in my list to fit a hellbrute back in and build a mini shooting castle. For my next game I’m running the bargain basement version by running a squad of havocs with heavy bolters and mark of tzeentch using the marks critical hits to get lethal and sustained from the heavy bolters.

 

I think I’d have to drop a unit of havocs and Nurglings to take a hellbrute and an enhancement.

[Verbal Underbelly]

You don't need a helbrute near heavy bolters as they already have sustained hits right?

[Kallas]

1 hour ago, Verbal Underbelly said:

You don't need a helbrute near heavy bolters as they already have sustained hits right?

I believe WatchCaptainNavar's intention is to benefit from both Sustained (innate on Heavy Bolters) and Lethal (from Dark Pacts) - by using DP to gain Lethal with Tzeentch, you get the 5+ Crits, which will then trigger both Sustained and Lethal, without needing a Helbrute nearby.

 

11 hours ago, WatchCaptainNavar said:

For my next game I’m running the bargain basement version by running a squad of havocs with heavy bolters and mark of tzeentch using the marks critical hits to get lethal and sustained from the heavy bolters.

@WatchCaptainNavar - I've been really interested in this combo too, so please let us know how it goes. I think they've got some good volume of fire and with S5/D2, they're not bad into a lot of the lighter stuff (GEQs, MEQs and light vehicles like Vypers, Land Speeders, Sentinels, etc). Very interested to see if they work well in practice.

[WatchCaptainNavar]

Yeah heavy bolters have sustained hits on the weapon so get no benefit from mark of nurgle, so tzeentch allows them to do both. I’m thinking they’ll be a home objective camper who don’t need a castle aura to perform and can be healed with skin shift.

 

 If you were planning a walking castle would tzeentch work on the dreads for later turns healing or are we all mark of nurgle for life for the ineligible target until the walking castle gets within 12”. As I can see a savvy opponent going for the hellbrute with indirect fire ect first.