Potential Codex Space Marine Leaks

[Marshal Reinhard]

So we don't really know if marines are being nerfed or not. OoM is being toned down, which sure, in the absence of other changes would be a nerf, but we don't know what else changes. Typically new bonuses get introduced.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Is there a TLDR anywhere for those of us who find Auspex Tactics' voice like nails on a blackboard?

Edited September 16, 2023 by Sword Brother Adelard

[SkimaskMohawk]

Or an actual write up? 

[Plaguecaster]

Oath getting nerfed will be massively deserved 

Such a stupid rule and too powerful how it is 

Marine should not be a able to reroll everything 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Plaguecaster

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

It still feels like with codexs we're getting beta rules, the Index was Alpha. Maybe we'll get a finished product some day. 

[Subtleknife]

4 hours ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

 

. . . GW literally said this was the path moving forward.  It should come as no surprise.

I never said it was a surprise...

 

I merely say I had hope after 8th and this is dissapointing. 

 

I want equal treatment amongst first founding chapters. This is not the way to go imo. GW are unfairly favouring some and screwing over others.

[ThePenitentOne]

2 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

So we don't really know if marines are being nerfed or not. OoM is being toned down, which sure, in the absence of other changes would be a nerf, but we don't know what else changes. Typically new bonuses get introduced.

 

We do know from the tyranid dex that any new rules are detachment based. So we do know that the Nerfed OoM IS the only army rule. We know you'll get to pick one of six detachments (including the Gladius, more or less as is); the detachment will give you ONE detachment rule (though it could, like OoM have multiple moving parts), FOUR enhancements and SIX strats.

 

Some datacards might change slightly form Index versions.

 

And that's about it. In other words, since all the new rules that are coming will be linked to detachments, they REPLACE existing rules... Meaning that the OoM Nerf will continue to hurt. Some detachments may have strong enough detachment rules, enhancements and strats that you don't feel the need to lean as heavy into OoM, but it's unlikely that the Gladius will change enough to not be heavily affected and it's equally unlikely that all five of the new detachments are good enough to offset the OoM nerf.

 

I'm not the world's biggest SM fan anyway, so I should probably recuse myself from the discussion anyways... Though I will be curious about their bespoke Crusade content. The Marine-based Crusade content for 9th was pretty weak compared to that of other factions, so GW has the potential to improve upon the past with this iteration. What we saw with Tyranids was content that was very similar to what they had in 9th ed, but in their case that's a good thing, because the 9th ed content for Nids was pretty cool.

 

Carbon copy is okay when the original is strong; when the original is weak, 10th needs to improve it.

[Bradeh]

3 hours ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

It still feels like with codexs we're getting beta rules, the Index was Alpha. Maybe we'll get a finished product some day. 

 

With new editions every three years that means GW is either already or in the near future working on the next edition, so I'm not surprised how the rules always feel rushed and unfinished. The final 10th codex will come out then 11th will come out.

[Kastor Krieg]

3 hours ago, Plaguecaster said:

Oath getting nerfed will be massively deserved 

Such a stupid rule and too powerful how it is 

Marine should not be a able to reroll everything 

Lmao, look at Eldar. It's on a single target unit. 

[Lord_Ikka]

The detachments feel like a decent compromise between completely getting rid of 1st Founding Chapters' older tactics/rules and the increased rules-bloat/bad balancing that would occur if every 1st Founding had a specific Faction rule and its own detachment (like BA/DA/SW). I don't trust GW or their track record, or lack of playtesting for meta-breaking combos, to make individual rules for all the chapters. We saw how badly that went with Iron Hands in 8th, and that was when GW had a bunch of playtesters. Now that they don't, this sort of simplification is better in my view than a possible mess of rules and interactions that don't get fully tested before release. 

 

Oath was/is powerful against certain armies- especially Knights of either variety, or elite armies like the Custodes. Against everything else it is ok, but not overpowered, as typically you are placing Oath on one of your enemies power pieces and using the benefits to just boost your own heavy hitters to make sure it goes down. You'll be able to reliably delete one unit off the table, but that's it (unless you are using Gulliman). It isn't nearly as army defining of an ability like the IK FNP, Aeldari Fate dice, or even Death Guards new aura abilites because it literally only effects one specific enemy unit per turn. Almost every other faction rule gives some sort of bonus to multiple units and/or against multiple units. So Oath is good, but situational in its application. I personally think it is fine as is and fairly thematic, as SM would definitely be able to identify and target an enemy's most dangerous unit right off the bat.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

14 hours ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

I do feel that if OoM is going to hit rolls only some serious balancing needs to come with that change. OoM is currently the main source of power in space marines.

 

Very curious how they will handle divergent chapters as they need to keep the index alive for them in theory. That was not mentioned in the leak for my divergent brethren who can't spare a moment to watch.

 

I'm hoping they nerf OoM because I'd rather have my wolves feel strong, than rely on a special rule as much as I do. I also think that if GW is willing to nerf it than there is a bit more hope that they realize that strands of fate is a bad ideal.

 

For divergent chapters I have a feeling that they expect us to buy the vanilla book. I would love to be wrong, but I just feel like their goal shifted from selling a codex and a supplement to each marine player, to selling every marine player every marine codex. I just hope it's not like 8th where the marine books were clearly designed at the same time, and some were just pushed back to spread out the releases.

  

[WrathOfTheLion]

23 minutes ago, Jorin Helm-splitter said:

 

I'm hoping they nerf OoM because I'd rather have my wolves feel strong, than rely on a special rule as much as I do. I also think that if GW is willing to nerf it than there is a bit more hope that they realize that strands of fate is a bad ideal.

 

For divergent chapters I have a feeling that they expect us to buy the vanilla book. I would love to be wrong, but I just feel like their goal shifted from selling a codex and a supplement to each marine player, to selling every marine player every marine codex. I just hope it's not like 8th where the marine books were clearly designed at the same time, and some were just pushed back to spread out the releases.

  

I want to say when asked about it during the initial announcements, they said you wouldn't have to buy the Space Marine Codex. That may be just me misremembering though, I'd have to go back and find where they mentioned it. I'll try to do a quick search.

 

I did some looking and can't find it. Not going to spend too much time on it.

Edited September 17, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

1 hour ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I want to say when asked about it during the initial announcements, they said you wouldn't have to buy the Space Marine Codex. That may be just me misremembering though, I'd have to go back and find where they mentioned it. I'll try to do a quick search.

 

I did some looking and can't find it. Not going to spend too much time on it.

 

I can remember them saying it didn't matter what color your minis were as far playing a fraction, and that that the divergent chapters would get their own books that had all the units, but I don't think that mentioned what will happen with the index. We will find out soon though because it didn't take them long to take down the Nid index. Which honestly is kind of a shame because leaving the index available would've been great for new players.  

[Cleon]

9 hours ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

Is there a TLDR anywhere for those of us who find Auspex Tactics' voice like nails on a blackboard?

He doesn't actually say anything that isn't written on the screen. I mute it and read the slides because it has the same effect on me. I think it's more the presentation style of near monotone with every sentence trailing up at the end the same way, but I just can't listen to it.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Cleon

[OttoVonAwesome]

30 minutes ago, Cleon said:

He doesn't actually say anything that isn't written on the screen. I mute it and read the slides because it has the same effect on me. I think it's more the presentation style of near monotone with every sentence trailing up at the end the same way, but I just can't listen to it.

Yeah he's really monotone. Sometimes I put his videos on if I can't sleep. Guy should branch out into those asmr sleep videos he def has an untapped talent.

[jimbo1701]

Guys whether you find auspex tactics voice monotone / irritating or not please can we respect the amount of hours that man puts into his work and the service he performs for the community. 

[Karhedron]

11 hours ago, Plaguecaster said:

Oath getting nerfed will be massively deserved 

Such a stupid rule and too powerful how it is 

Marine should not be a able to reroll everything 

 

The problem is that we can see from the results that Oath is not causing a problem. Marines are sitting in the mid-40s winrate which is well below the 50% target. Factions like Knights and Custodians which are supposedly the prime targets of Oath are performing much better. What this suggests is that Marines overall a weak faction and Oath is simply helping to prop them up. If you weaken Oath, Marines will sink even lower unless something else is added to boost them.

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

43 minutes ago, jimbo1701 said:

Guys whether you find auspex tactics voice monotone / irritating or not please can we respect the amount of hours that man puts into his work and the service he performs for the community. 

 

I don't see that anyone did disrespect his efforts? He does good work, but I just can't enjoy it.

[jimbo1701]

7 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

 

I don't see that anyone did disrespect his efforts? He does good work, but I just can't enjoy it.

I read people saying they can’t stand his voice as something he would find hurtful should he read it. It certainly has minimal relevance to the topic. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Maybe he could take it as something to work on? I present for a living and had elocution lessons, was trained to drop my regional accent and take every opportunity I can to have voice coaching lessons. It's a tool and it can be developed.

 

It's of relevance to the topic because as it presently stands the only way to actually understand what the topic is about is to watch his video, and that means the topic is meaningless for anyone who bounces off his video.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Sword Brother Adelard

[jimbo1701]

3 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

Maybe he could take it as something to work on? I present for a living and had elocution lessons, was trained to drop my regional accent and take every opportunity I can to have voice coaching lessons. It's a tool and it can be developed.

 

It's of relevance to the topic because as it presently stands the only way to actually understand what the topic is about is to watch his video, and that means the topic is meaningless for anyone who bounces off his video.

Sure, and that’s certainly something that could be suggested to him by way of his YouTube channel. 
I state ‘minimal’ relevance as the information he has kindly summarised from Reddit is certainly the mainstay of the topic. His voice is not. 

[Wormwoods]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

The problem is that we can see from the results that Oath is not causing a problem. Marines are sitting in the mid-40s winrate which is well below the 50% target. Factions like Knights and Custodians which are supposedly the prime targets of Oath are performing much better. What this suggests is that Marines overall a weak faction and Oath is simply helping to prop them up. If you weaken Oath, Marines will sink even lower unless something else is added to boost them.

 

We'll see if an extra unit or two from the price change will affect things? I'm not expecting the new assault squads to move the needle much with the overall quality of close combat in 10th, but more bodies on the field may do work. We'll see. 

[Mogger351]

45 minutes ago, Wormwoods said:

 

We'll see if an extra unit or two from the price change will affect things? I'm not expecting the new assault squads to move the needle much with the overall quality of close combat in 10th, but more bodies on the field may do work. We'll see. 

I really don't want to see marines end up as a pillow fisted horde however, I'd rather they tackled the problem without simply saying "bring more stuff".

[Wormwoods]

11 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

I really don't want to see marines end up as a pillow fisted horde however, I'd rather they tackled the problem without simply saying "bring more stuff".

Oh, I'm with you. That would also be my preference. What I'm saying is, we'll just have to wait and see how the points change plays out, and if it counteracts the reduction of power for OoM.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The thing with oaths is that it it can feel really poor for the opponent to get a lynchpin unit oathed down by capable marine stuff, bypassing modifiers to hit or wound you were relying on. Doubly so, if your army was largely stripped of sources of rerolls.

 

Of course, we also know that know that (pre-update) marines rather needed oath to hit their mediocre win rate. Idk what it's going to look like now, but plain nerfing it probably wouldn't be the best idea; transferring power back into the units while lessening the effect wouldn't be terrible though.