Updated Mark III + Potential Deredeo

[WrathOfTheLion]

7 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Like a lot of people, I don't have much of an issue with these models in of themselves. The bolter is probably my biggest issue of the overall sculpt, as it looks really small, but otherwise I think the models are pretty cool.

 

That being said, they really don't play nicely with either the old resin mk3 or plastic mk3 (you know, the models people made their armies out of). The people who chose to use those models obviously liked the details from them, and the new mk3 are just plain different.

 

Which I assumed was the point. They want people to go and buy the new stuff instead of saying "well I already have the old version"; they want a visual clash and a feeling of incompatiblility. 

I think just like with MK VI, they've redesigned all the armor marks, and that this work is already completed. You can easily tell that these are using the MK II marine from the pintle sprue as their basis, for example.

[sonsoftaurus]

1 hour ago, Redcomet said:

The armor looks weirdly soft and round. Almost like a plushy version of the armor

“Tom, why do those guys have those heads?”

 

”What? Sergeants are often depicted bear-headed.”

 

”BARE-headed, Tom!”

[SkimaskMohawk]

8 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I think just like with MK VI, they've redesigned all the armor marks, and that this work is already completed. You can easily tell that these are using the MK II marine from the pintle sprue as their basis, for example.

 

Oh for sure it's a complete overhaul, it just don't feel great as a collector looking for consistency.

 

It's a bit like the primaris thing. They were obviously larger and had a different enough visual language to set them apart; even though you could mix them with old stuff, it tended to look kinda wonky.

Edited September 1, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[Redcomet]

47 minutes ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

Re: incompatibility

I’m not so sure that’s their intention. I find it more likely that they have seen how popular things like Tortuga are, have noticed that nearly all of the things people post of their heresy infantry are either converted or printed to be taller, seen conversions of primaris things to be heresy era and have come to the pretty logical conclusion “hey people want this stuff bigger”. They also probably figured they may as well update the look a bit while they are at it.

As for someone else’s comment about visual continuity…that’s never really been much of a thing with them. They have always had multiple different artists, sculptors, writers, etc working on things either at the same time or in succession, and often they have been wildly different. Between every edition and codex things have changed back and forth depending on what things they liked the look of at the time, and this is no different.

But, ya know: everyone likes different things. Again I love the old stuff and have a ton of and am happy with it, but I have had it a long time and am happy to do a new version now.

I am honestly perplexed Tortuga bay still exists. They aren’t even subtle about how much they “borrow” 

[jaxom]

12 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Of for sure it's a complete overhaul, it just don't feel great as a collector looking for consistency.

 

It's a bit like the primaris thing. They were obviously larger and had a different enough visual language to set them apart; even though you could mix them with old stuff, it tended to look kinda wonky.

Oh man, I think I understand car collectors talking about different trims a bit better now. 

[Orion]

4 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

I am honestly perplexed Tortuga bay still exists. They aren’t even subtle about how much they “borrow” 

I like that they do them as conversion kits. Rather than full models.

Puts money in GWs pocket and also massively improves visual consistency imo.
Full stls tend to go start looking "off brand" pretty quick if they design them in isolation to GW models.

[Armillion]

Homebrew headcannon as mental justification for the sleekness of new MkIII:

 

In the last decades of the Great Crusade, the venerable MkII and MkIII power armour patterns were slowly being phased out of frontline service in many legions by the mass introduction of the technologically more advanced and easier to produce MkIV Maximus pattern. While it was intended that all astartes would eventually being re-equipped with this newer pattern, nevertheless production consistently failed to meet the demand and stopgap solutions were explored. During this time, the MkIII pattern continued to hold some primacy among legions favoring frontal assaults for it's superior protection as compared to MkII and all but the highest grade variants of MkIV.  For those forges which had built up capacity to churn out massive quantities of MkIII suits for over a century at this point, the switch to build entirely new production lines for MkIV would result in unacceptable delays in output in the medium term.

 

With a ready market for continued acceptance of the venerable MkIII pattern particularly amongst the 4th, 6th, 7th, and 14th legions, work on a streamlined variant of MkIII commenced in the last decades prior to the Heresy. Known as MkIII "Late" or retroactively MkIIIB as an officially recognized pattern by the Mechanicum, this new version incorporated limited aspects of the MkIV pattern into its design, enabling simplified production and maintenance with minimal modifications to production lines. MkIIIB could not boast to match the advanced auspex packages, range of motion, nor the much more compact and efficient reactor design of the MkIV. Nevertheless, it was at least as easy to produce as MkIV and much less reliant on distant supply chains for specialized components, further supporting localized production efforts.

 

The switch to this updated pattern of MkIIIB was not uniform, with something approaching mass production only occuring in the last decades of M31.  Both primary versions of MkIII would remain in production in parallel in different corners of the Imperium, even well into the Heresy until the point where even the simplified MkIIIB was beyond the ability of the forges to mass produce, giving way to the ad-hoc designs of MkV.  By the years of the Scouring, MkIIIB was deemed fully obsolete and supplanted in Imperial production in it's near entirety by the much newer MkVI and MkVII patterns.

[Redcomet]

Military aircraft have been iterated on in production blocks or versions for a long time. Some alterations internally others externally, like new canopies of different wings. I see this verison of the mk3 as that. The block 50 version so to speak 

[spessmarine]

I wanna see a side by side with the old one, just how much more thick 

[Master Commander Ajax]

39 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

I am honestly perplexed Tortuga bay still exists. They aren’t even subtle about how much they “borrow” 

Speculation on my part but perhaps the changes made to mkIII armour makes them more copyrightable compared to its previous incarnation?

[Armillion]

21 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

Military aircraft have been iterated on in production blocks or versions for a long time. Some alterations internally others externally, like new canopies of different wings. I see this verison of the mk3 as that. The block 50 version so to speak 

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

[OttoVonAwesome]

19 minutes ago, Master Commander Ajax said:

Speculation on my part but perhaps the changes made to mkIII armour makes them more copyrightable compared to its previous incarnation?

They wish. Nah it's the will of the GW design team. They just figured it would be boring to simply rescale them. Same reason we ended up with Primaris marines.

[OttoVonAwesome]

1 hour ago, JayJapanB said:

I like that they do them as conversion kits. Rather than full models.

Puts money in GWs pocket and also massively improves visual consistency imo.
Full stls tend to go start looking "off brand" pretty quick if they design them in isolation to GW models.

In order to skirt copyright laws a design must be 20% different some designers stick close to the line some go buck wild. Who GW goes after is completely random. Usually starts with someone running his mouth publicly about where he got the files on facebook. I agree though every good stl I've downloaded resulted in a gain for GW in new paint and supplies, bits from my bits box and vehicles and dreadnoughts and fw accessories. I just wish they'd leave oop stuff alone entirely if they keep refusing to offer stl's themselves.

[irlLordy]

I don't mind the armour, but I really can't see my UM based army wearing spikes on their heads. I wonder if the spike will be a seperate piece from the helmet, would be easy to leave it off then.

 

Otherwise, it will be snip, snip.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

3 hours ago, Hungry Nostraman Lizard said:

Bro, they literally just axed Assault squads and replaced them with assault interbingerdingers. 
 

At this point they could some out and say primaris isn't a thing and these are all just Space Marines in Mk. X tacticus armor.

Terminators and Scouts are classic space marine kits which other than increasing in size have continued to be faithful recreations of what they have always been, and will continue to remain a part of the game and the universe. IMO, this is a trend we will end up seeing with other kits.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Jolemai
Removed unnecessary bits

[Jolemai]

Play nice please folks

[OttoVonAwesome]

6 hours ago, Armillion said:

Homebrew headcannon as mental justification for the sleekness of new MkIII:

 

In the last decades of the Great Crusade, the venerable MkII and MkIII power armour patterns were slowly being phased out of frontline service in many legions by the mass introduction of the technologically more advanced and easier to produce MkIV Maximus pattern. While it was intended that all astartes would eventually being re-equipped with this newer pattern, nevertheless production consistently failed to meet the demand and stopgap solutions were explored. During this time, the MkIII pattern continued to hold some primacy among legions favoring frontal assaults for it's superior protection as compared to MkII and all but the highest grade variants of MkIV.  For those forges which had built up capacity to churn out massive quantities of MkIII suits for over a century at this point, the switch to build entirely new production lines for MkIV would result in unacceptable delays in output in the medium term.

 

With a ready market for continued acceptance of the venerable MkIII pattern particularly amongst the 4th, 6th, 7th, and 14th legions, work on a streamlined variant of MkIII commenced in the last decades prior to the Heresy. Known as MkIII "Late" or retroactively MkIIIB as an officially recognized pattern by the Mechanicum, this new version incorporated limited aspects of the MkIV pattern into its design, enabling simplified production and maintenance with minimal modifications to production lines. MkIIIB could not boast to match the advanced auspex packages, range of motion, nor the much more compact and efficient reactor design of the MkIV. Nevertheless, it was at least as easy to produce as MkIV and much less reliant on distant supply chains for specialized components, further supporting localized production efforts.

 

The switch to this updated pattern of MkIIIB was not uniform, with something approaching mass production only occuring in the last decades of M31.  Both primary versions of MkIII would remain in production in parallel in different corners of the Imperium, even well into the Heresy until the point where even the simplified MkIIIB was beyond the ability of the forges to mass produce, giving way to the ad-hoc designs of MkV.  By the years of the Scouring, MkIIIB was deemed fully obsolete and supplanted in Imperial production in it's near entirety by the much newer MkVI and MkVII patterns.

No head cannon needed. Every mark is supposed to have sub marks and variations based on the Forgeworld it was manufactured and prototypes. The new mark 6 is even specifically refered to as the RTB01 sub variant and actually isn't supposed to be the one the tactical kits and FW set are sporting that became standard after the scouring. The Ultramarines Tank commander Cronus is wearing a similar sub variant of the new mark 3 that is even closer to the original design and Helbrecht and Sicarius used to wear another sub variant of mark 2. There's also a mark 4 sub variant you see alot that incorporates the chest armour from mark 2 you can see on SoH Reavers and Sual Tarvitz. There's supposed to be lots of wierd variations we just only get to buy one at a time.

 

40k models used to not be very shy about showing off different sub variant parts like Blood angels and the old school snouted mark 4 with the crotch plate from I believe the Death Company set as well as the old sternguard set. Everything you said there is actual cannon lol.

Edited September 1, 2023 by OttoVonAwesome

[Plaguecaster]

I'm happy about the plastic Deredeo

Will be fun to convert another death guard one even though it's legends 

Just wish they'd reveal plans for black shields and plastic breachers as that's the only thing holding me back from going all in heresy 

Though a word bearers heresy force does seem tempting 

[ManFromAnotherPlace]

22 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

If you take all the known examples of new mark 4 (characters there's like alot of them, Raldoran, Exodus, Ventanus, Lucius, Sual Tarvitz, and the Ultramarines Preator and the SoH tank commander) then the only big difference in design is likely to be the back pack and it's actually hard to tell it's even different at all. Compare them to the SoH preator that came out at the same time as the Imperial fists one and it's obvious he was also based on an earlier design (likely prototypes for the scale increase) the much slimmer legs that match closer to the FW mark 4 design and you will see the others were based off common proportions and parts. Fatter legs and slight changes to the contours of the backpack.

 

I can't see GW deviating too far from the work that's already been done there maybe changing the feet and hips to further match the previous two plastic reworks. Granted the examples I gave aren't entirely new they have the old backpack connection points and smaller feet (Ultramarines Preator's though appear closer to the proportions of mk 6 and 3) but they do have alot of features the newer designs have as well little tabs on the sides of the neck below the ears. Ultimately though one needs look no further than the SoH tank commander. So I geuss don't worry about mark 4? lol

 

They never said it was exclusive to them only that they exclusively had a large number of it early on. It was actually stated there were several versions of it in prototype since the crusade and none of that was exactly new or retconned info not that the entire 40k universe hasn't seen multiple and sweeping retcons through it's long history. The door was always open to use any mark except 7 at any point in the war with any army with some choices being fluffier than others.

 

Explain deliverace lost when its explicitly stated.

[Urauloth]

14 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

No head cannon needed. Every mark is supposed to have sub marks and variations based on the Forgeworld it was manufactured and prototypes. The new mark 6 is even specifically refered to as the RTB01 sub variant and actually isn't supposed to be the one the tactical kits and FW set are sporting that became standard after the scouring. The Ultramarines Tank commander Cronus is wearing a similar sub variant of the new mark 3 that is even closer to the original design and Helbrecht and Sicarius used to wear another sub variant of mark 2. There's also a mark 4 sub variant you see alot that incorporates the chest armour from mark 2 you can see on SoH Reavers and Sual Tarvitz. There's supposed to be lots of wierd variations we just only get to buy one at a time.

 

40k models used to not be very shy about showing off different sub variant parts like Blood angels and the old school snouted mark 4 with the crotch plate from I believe the Death Company set as well as the old sternguard set. Everything you said there is actual cannon lol.

I agree, I just wish they'd included a couple of pieces of the other Mk III design in the new kit. A few optional torso fronts with the wide collar and a handful of helmets would have helped a lot for those of us who want to maintain more visual continuity with our existing Mk III armoured minis.

[Waaagh?]

23 hours ago, Redcomet said:

I am honestly perplexed Tortuga bay still exists. They aren’t even subtle about how much they “borrow” 

 

They're based in Ukraine. I don't think GW can do much. 

[Rain]

33 minutes ago, Waaagh? said:

 

They're based in Ukraine. I don't think GW can do much. 

Yeah, GW is like the music industry of the late 90’s and early 2000’s. Fighting an unwinnable battle that mostly just hurts them.

 

As @JayJapanB said earlier, these 3rd party bits are mostly used as complimentary products to GW kits, and may even spur on the purchase of more GW kits by giving hardcore fans unique conversion ideas to represent their specific Chapter/Legion etc with third party heads, shoulderpads, and weapons.
 

GW should be happy that a healthy aftermarket for complimentary goods exists, not be trying to kill it while devaluing their own products by going monopose, removing options, and killing units without an explicit kit (Guard Vets, Dark Eldar Trueborn/Bloodbrides, etc.) in the process of fighting third party kits.

[Shark in Exile]

Fall in the camp don’t like the new Mk III models much but it’s down more than anything to the feet being different, more rounded chest plate and yes the helmet spikes which I feel are more Death Guard and suitable for Sons of Horus.

 

 I have a good stock of the old plastic Mk III for my armies so can pass on the new set.

 

As for the Deredo Dreadnought, little disappointed that it doesn’t come with all weapon options at present, but happy it’s finally made it into plastic.

 

 

[Jukkiz]

8 hours ago, Shark in Exile said:

 

As for the Deredo Dreadnought, little disappointed that it doesn’t come with all weapon options at present, but happy it’s finally made it into plastic.

 

 

they most liekly left it so FW has something to do still. like that radar dome thing, lascannons and other upgrades.

though i would be surprised if they make lascannons plastic

[Fire Golem]

I’m pretty sure I hated the Deredeo when it first came out, it’s really grown on me. I like the new chest option with the extra trim.