Kill Team Kill Team: Salvation (Striking Scorpions vs Primaris Scouts)

[CL_Mission]

Hmmm. At that price I'm not sure what way I'll go. I was considering picking the box up primarily for the Scouts and either keep the scorpions for some future Eldar project or pass them on to someone else. The real trick is trying to guess how much things would be separately, I could see Scouts coming out in a box of 10 at the same price as Intercessors/infiltrators/hellblasters but would scorpions come in 5s like Banshees and Reapers or 10s like Corsairs. If they would come in 5s then this box becomes more worth it.

[TrawlingCleaner]

2 minutes ago, CL_Mission said:

Hmmm. At that price I'm not sure what way I'll go. I was considering picking the box up primarily for the Scouts and either keep the scorpions for some future Eldar project or pass them on to someone else. The real trick is trying to guess how much things would be separately, I could see Scouts coming out in a box of 10 at the same price as Intercessors/infiltrators/hellblasters but would scorpions come in 5s like Banshees and Reapers or 10s like Corsairs. If they would come in 5s then this box becomes more worth it.

 

My guess is that they'll come out at roughly the same as all the other Killteams so far which is between £37.50 or £42.50. I'd go for 37.50 for both looking at the Eldar Corsairs, Hearthkin Salvagers and Fellgore.

The VS boxes without terrain like this don't tend to give as good a discount as the ones with. Having campaign rules is nice to have if you're into your KT

[Tyriks]

I want the Scorpions but I'll wait until they're available separately. Is there a typical amount of time after these boxes come out they release the kits separately?

[TheMawr]

The way both the kit and their actual kill team is setup, Id be really suprised if striking scorpions come per 10 on their seperate release.. or are even released as a kill team seperately.

In kill team terms they are more comparable to the Ashes of Faith kill teams than they are to corsairs etc.

 

I assume they will be 50 euros for 5 seperately like the other recent 5man eldar kits... I think its less likely that GW would lower their standard pricing for a new kit than that they make a limited release box that features a hefty discount in hindsight.

 

 

 

edit:

To add, my theory is that they might make a Blades of Khaine kill team box before releasing striking scorpions seperately, but it will be 5 Scorpions and 5 Dire avengers ( or even ignoring the new scorpions and doing 5 banshees instead.) at 60 euro or something... I think thats the top end of kill team pricing out there ?

Edited November 14, 2023 by TheMawr

[Halandaar]

1 hour ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

This box is in the Christmas Gift Guide and priced to be the same as the Warcry Hunter and Hunted box (£80GBP),

 

Exactly the price I expected, and pre-order on 25th November is the last date available for it to still be considered an Autumn release (per the Kill Team roadmap from Warhammer Fest) so it pretty much has to be that day for it to be "on time".

 

12 minutes ago, CL_Mission said:

The real trick is trying to guess how much things would be separately, I could see Scouts coming out in a box of 10 at the same price as Intercessors/infiltrators/hellblasters but would scorpions come in 5s like Banshees and Reapers or 10s like Corsairs. If they would come in 5s then this box becomes more worth it.

 

5 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

My guess is that they'll come out at roughly the same as all the other Killteams so far which is between £37.50 or £42.50. I'd go for 37.50 for both looking at the Eldar Corsairs, Hearthkin Salvagers and Fellgore.

 

Agree with @CL_Mission that Scouts, although in the same boat as Scorpions being two 5-model kits, at least make sense as a 10-model standalone box because the majority of Space Marine kits are in that format already so the pricing makes sense in both systems. Them being priced at £37.50 for 10 when they get their standalone release seems like a reasonable assumption.

 

Scorpions are a bit harder to predict though. If they get a standalone release as a 10-model Kill Team box for ~£37.50, they'll be the cheapest Aspect Warriors by an absolute mile at half the price of Howling Banshees and Dark Reapers, which would be a bit weird. But conversely if they come out as a 5-model kit for the Eldar range at a price consistent with the other two, they'd then be the most expensive Kill Team to buy by a mile at twice the price of a Corsair kit. Neither option makes particular sense. 

 

I'm personally choosing to consider the Scorpions as having a standalone RRP of £75 because that's how much the same number of Banshees or Reapers would cost me, so I view £80 for the lot as a significant saving. 

 

 

[Doctor Perils]

2 hours ago, CL_Mission said:

Hmmm. At that price I'm not sure what way I'll go. I was considering picking the box up primarily for the Scouts and either keep the scorpions for some future Eldar project or pass them on to someone else. The real trick is trying to guess how much things would be separately, I could see Scouts coming out in a box of 10 at the same price as Intercessors/infiltrators/hellblasters but would scorpions come in 5s like Banshees and Reapers or 10s like Corsairs. If they would come in 5s then this box becomes more worth it.

I think they've said there's the bitz for making two exarchs, so it'll be two copies of the eventual 5 man box

[TheMawr]

1 hour ago, Halandaar said:

 

Ex But conversely if they come out as a 5-model kit for the Eldar range at a price consistent with the other two, they'd then be the most expensive Kill Team to buy by a mile at twice the price of a Corsair kit. Neither option makes particular sense. 

 

I'm personally choosing to consider the Scorpions as having a standalone RRP of £75 because that's how much the same number of Banshees or Reapers would cost me, so I view £80 for the lot as a significant saving. 

 

 

 

They already are the most expensive kill team*, considering its not kill team striking scorpions, but its kill team Blades of Khaine, wich covers multiple aspect warriors... and in order to have all optionable operatives Im going to guess you'd at least need Howling banshees and Dire avengers.

So that exception/option is already there... regardless of it making sense or not.

 

* I think the inquisition kill team has them beat, for 42.50 you have the 6man henchmen set, so to have a pure henchmen killteam is 85 euros, but to cover all the operative options you'd need Kasrkin, Tempestus scions, Sisters of silence and Arbites as well.

This  and the Necron Hierotek circle ( where you can rotate crypteks) are the closest comparable kill teams that also had a feature release.

 

 

[davextreme]

4 hours ago, Tyriks said:

I want the Scorpions but I'll wait until they're available separately. Is there a typical amount of time after these boxes come out they release the kits separately?

 

Typically three months. This box could be difference since it's a sought-after 40K kit (Scouts, too), but 3mo is the usually delay.

[Halandaar]

42 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

...considering its not kill team striking scorpions, but its kill team Blades of Khaine, wich covers multiple aspect warriors...

 

I did consider this, it might be that the Scorpions come out as a 5-man standalone kit in the Aeldari 40K range, and the Kill Team release is actually a split box of Scorpions and Banshees/Avengers for a slightly dealy price. versus buying the two separately.

[ThePenitentOne]

I'd be game for a mixed Aspect KT.

[01RTB01]

I'd place good money on the scorpions releasing separately as the same price/ slightly more for a box of 5. All aspects are in boxes of 5. They won't break tradition and up it to 10.

 

The box will be best vfm to get them assuming people can shift the other stuff in the box.

 

It's always the way and this won't be any different. There's a reason I bought 2 full sets of the Octarius launch set and it definitely worked out as a long term bargain. This won't be any different as per every other kill team set.

[LameBeard]

Terminators moved from boxes of 5 to 10 in Heresy, and Marines from 10 to 20. And actually became cheaper “per model” in doing so. So there is some precedent.

[Nova-V]

Interesting they are in the Christmas gift guide.  Due to the two week pre-order windows (which do seem to have helped with GW getting stock into place) we know they have missed the Autumn release from the road map as a 25th pre order wouldn't release before Dec 1st.   They tend not to release much in December but as the Battleforces were much earlier than usual this year it seems the two may have switched?  LI seems to have really thrown a spanner into GWs end of year plans.

 

 

Price wise it's pretty bang on, if the two boxes are £37.5 each you are getting a second set of Scorpions for a fiver and the book and scatter terrain for free.  

 

[Halandaar]

1 hour ago, Nova-V said:

Due to the two week pre-order windows (which do seem to have helped with GW getting stock into place) we know they have missed the Autumn release from the road map as a 25th pre order wouldn't release before Dec 1st.   

 

I think they just about scrape it, by virtue of you being able to pay money for it in Autumn (ie on November 25)

 

4 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

I'd place good money on the scorpions releasing separately as the same price/ slightly more for a box of 5. All aspects are in boxes of 5. They won't break tradition and up it to 10.

 

The thing is it won't be released as a 40K product like the other aspects, it'll be released as a Kill Team branded product just like every previous team has been; to this day Ork Kommandos are a Kill Team product, not a 40K product. It makes the most sense to put it in the same format it is in the Salvation box (ie 10 models) but obviously the existence of the 6-model Inquisitorial Agents box does break the established pattern, so who knows!

 

 

[Xenith]

16 hours ago, Halandaar said:

I'm personally choosing to consider the Scorpions as having a standalone RRP of £75 because that's how much the same number of Banshees or Reapers would cost me, so I view £80 for the lot as a significant saving. 

 

This is how it will be I think. They're not going to offer such a discount on scorps over bansees, I think they'll be consistent at £37.50 for 5 (!!!).

[Nova-V]

1 hour ago, Halandaar said:

 

I think they just about scrape it, by virtue of you being able to pay money for it in Autumn (ie on November 25)

 

 

The thing is it won't be released as a 40K product like the other aspects, it'll be released as a Kill Team branded product just like every previous team has been; to this day Ork Kommandos are a Kill Team product, not a 40K product. It makes the most sense to put it in the same format it is in the Salvation box (ie 10 models) but obviously the existence of the 6-model Inquisitorial Agents box does break the established pattern, so who knows!

 

 

Good points on both counts.  I bet you are right about the Autumn technicality.

 

I hadn't thought about the boxing being a Kill Team one but that does put GW in a tricky position of their own making.  A Kill Team box needs 10 but that will make the previous 5 man 40K releases look bad. Aube that Inq box was to ease us into incomplete boxes!

[Halandaar]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

I think they'll be consistent at £37.50 for 5 (!!!).

 

It really is an outrageous price for 5 human-sized infantry models. Even the new Jump Intercessors cost less and they're almost twice as bulky.

[Xirix]

4 hours ago, LameBeard said:

Terminators moved from boxes of 5 to 10 in Heresy, and Marines from 10 to 20. And actually became cheaper “per model” in doing so. So there is some precedent.

Nothing like this has happened for 40K though. It would be great, but I wouldn't hold my breath. (Consider, the new Indomitus Terminators came out in 5's as per usual, and this was after the HH reboxing for the other Termies)

[jimbo1701]

2 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

This is how it will be I think. They're not going to offer such a discount on scorps over bansees, I think they'll be consistent at £37.50 for 5 (!!!).

I can’t call it either way at the moment tbh. I can see that aspects they can justify the outrageous price for 5 elite models, but with scouts being the flimsiest models in the army relative to the rear  I would hope either a lower price point or box of 10. Nothing surprises me any more though….

[Nagashsnee]

I was going to split this with a mate, but its more then we thought it would be without us being able to tell why? Made us re think the purchase and will end up waiting to see solo releases. 

[Tokugawa]

I can't see much logic in GW's pricing.

[Halandaar]

1 hour ago, Nagashsnee said:

I was going to split this with a mate, but its more then we thought it would be without us being able to tell why? Made us re think the purchase and will end up waiting to see solo releases. 

 

Even presuming you don't need the sourcebook or terrain sprue, the best case scenario (i.e. when the teams are released as standalone kits they are both 10-model sets for £37.50) is only going to save you a fiver (or £2.50 once you've split it with your friend) versus just buying the whole box for £80.

Sure a saving is a saving, but you're sort of betting against the non-insignificant chance that GW puts the Scorpions out for £37.50 for five models rather than ten, and frankly I do not like those odds. For me personally, the risk of spending £5 more than I needed to vastly outweighs the risk of finding out in 3 months time that actually the models are going to cost me over £30 more than I could have paid.

 

Edit - Not to mention if you don't need the sourcebook or terrain sprue from the Salvation box you can just sell them, you'd probably make £15-£20 back on that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Halandaar

[Zoatibix]

I predict £42.50 for the ten Scouts but £37.50 for five Scorpions.

[TheMawr]

3 hours ago, Halandaar said:

 

I think they just about scrape it, by virtue of you being able to pay money for it in Autumn (ie on November 25)

 

 

The thing is it won't be released as a 40K product like the other aspects, it'll be released as a Kill Team branded product just like every previous team has been; to this day Ork Kommandos are a Kill Team product, not a 40K product. It makes the most sense to put it in the same format it is in the Salvation box (ie 10 models) but obviously the existence of the 6-model Inquisitorial Agents box does break the established pattern, so who knows!

 

 

 

Patterns are broken with Salvation already... the box layout is vertical and contains much less terrain :p (only semi serious there)

 

But most of all the Blades of Khaine killteam is a very different killteam from ork kommandos etc. ... and in contrary to any killteam come before a dedicated seperate kill team branded Blades of Khaine doesnt need to have the 10 scorpions... it doesnt need to have any striking scorpions in fact, it only needs Aspect warriors.

 

Rumors are rumors ofcourse, but the way it sound, there might be another patternbreaker... with the same kill team appearing twice. If Swooping hawks indeed come in one of the boxes then I assume that too will be "Blades of Khaine" and this is one of the main reasons I dont think striking scorpions will be kill team branded at seperate release, and "Blades of Khaine" might not get a seperate kill team release at all or not early in the season... though I can see a potential situation including 5 almost free Dire avengers in a kill team branded box, either with 5 Howling Banshees and released very close to Salvation, or with 5 Striking scorpions later down the road. 

( in contrary to scouts wich I fully expect to keep the old format; 10 scouts for a kill team price.)

 

However when combining the rumors we have :  Mandrakes, Vespids and Swooping hawks for the new models side, and Nightlords, Tempestus scions and Death company for the upgrade sprue side. and Nightlords potentially do present more pattern breaking things however they are presented... so thats something to be clearer soon enough.

 

When looking at how they did salvation/striking scorpions, and looking at the rumors (wich ofcourse might not be true or not the full truth ) I think this season breaks alot of patterns, and expectations should be thrown out of the window for a bit.

[Halandaar]

11 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

Patterns are broken with Salvation already... the box layout is vertical and contains much less terrain :p (only semi serious there)

 

But most of all the Blades of Khaine killteam is a very different killteam from ork kommandos etc. ... and in contrary to any killteam come before a dedicated seperate kill team branded Blades of Khaine doesnt need to have the 10 scorpions... it doesnt need to have any striking scorpions in fact, it only needs Aspect warriors.

 

Rumors are rumors ofcourse, but the way it sound, there might be another patternbreaker... with the same kill team appearing twice. If Swooping hawks indeed come in one of the boxes then I assume that too will be "Blades of Khaine" and this is one of the main reasons I dont think striking scorpions will be kill team branded at seperate release, and "Blades of Khaine" might not get a seperate kill team release at all or not early in the season... though I can see a potential situation including 5 almost free Dire avengers in a kill team branded box, either with 5 Howling Banshees and released very close to Salvation, or with 5 Striking scorpions later down the road. 

( in contrary to scouts wich I fully expect to keep the old format; 10 scouts for a kill team price.)

 

However when combining the rumors we have :  Mandrakes, Vespids and Swooping hawks for the new models side, and Nightlords, Tempestus scions and Death company for the upgrade sprue side. and Nightlords potentially do present more pattern breaking things however they are presented... so thats something to be clearer soon enough.

 

When looking at how they did salvation/striking scorpions, and looking at the rumors (wich ofcourse might not be true or not the full truth ) I think this season breaks alot of patterns, and expectations should be thrown out of the window for a bit.

 

I've said elsewhere I think a mixed box of 5 Scorpions and 5 Avengers feels very plausible, in fact bundling the hot new Aspect Warriors in with a set of models that are almost certainly gong to be redundant for the majority of existing Eldar players and then charging a higher price that's presented like a saving (because £42.50 is less than £37.50+£27.50) is such a GW move I almost can't see them doing it any other way.