17th November preview event

[Lord_Ikka]

55 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

But largely, a good chunk of the vehicles are armed, armoured and named the exact same as their 40k counter parts (at this point), the infantry are easily fieldable as 40k either scions or guardsmen. Most of the additional options such as the armoured basilisk, medusa, malcador etc. Have or have recently had 40k rules and models from FW or GW in some places historically.

 

Releasing SA as a contained and defined army explicitly for 30k with no crossover, as was the point raised, is simply not viable outside of the most token intent.

Got no stake in that argument- was just answering how the SA compare to "modern" IG. 

 

I have a 40k Inquisitorial Stormtrooper army that uses SA models with Scion rules, as far as that goes...

[apologist]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

But largely, a good chunk of the vehicles are armed, armoured and named the exact same as their 40k counter parts (at this point), the infantry are easily fieldable as 40k either scions or guardsmen. Most of the additional options such as the armoured basilisk, medusa, malcador etc. Have or have recently had 40k rules and models from FW or GW in some places historically.

 

That is true – and while this is not intended as a counter-argument, I'd point out that there are quite a few existing kits that have little beyond relatively small aesthetic differences between them: just look at the various Rhinos you can buy.

 

I don't think it's beyond the bounds of possibility that the bits and bobs GW have noted in the Legiones Imperialis previews constitute enough justification for them to release a Leman Russ kit specifically intended for a 30k Solar Auxilia army. 

• 'fuel stowage tail construction to ease trench crossing'
• 'The Medusa [...] unlike their counterparts from the 41st Millennium, [a]re amply protected in a Leman Russ-class chassis instead of the Chimera-based vehicle of the further future.'
• 'As part of the elite Solar Auxilia, these super-heavies were afforded intricate armour trim'

I would not be at all surprised to see a completely new kit that builds a Solar Auxilia Leman Russ – complete with gucci trim, trench rails, pintle-multilaser, Solar Auxilia crew and other previously FW-exclusive upgrades – and for that to be swiftly followed-up by a kit with an upgrade sprue that allows the Medusa and Basilisk variants to be built.

 

I'd also note that GW seem to be deliberately trying to underline differences between 30k and 40k and removing the easy avenues for using the same models in different games. I'd certainly argue against the idea that the Solar Auxilia infantry as a whole translate easily into the more restrictive 10th edition landscape – while you can use power-axe or flamer-armed infantry here and there individually, there's no easy equivalent.

 

Likewise, while I bet the vast majority of players wouldn't bat an eyelid at volkite-armed soldiers proxying for Scions/Kasrkin (or vice versa), it's notable that they are different. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by apologist

[Noserenda]

YArr outside of infantry the SA vehicles are all exactly the same as 40k ones, just (sensibly) without the sponsons, which are optional in most kits anyway. 

I could see them repacking anyway, its essentially what they did with the Knights, but ideally they could at least do a SA vehicle upgrade sprue as Apologist suggests, especially if they are going to be direct only like the knights and thus essentially more expensive anyway! 

[phandaal]

3 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Got no stake in that argument- was just answering how the SA compare to "modern" IG. 

 

I have a 40k Inquisitorial Stormtrooper army that uses SA models with Scion rules, as far as that goes...

 

Not a Heresy player and I do not keep up with all of the models, so I just saw the Solar Auxilia for the first time yesterday. Those guys are awesome! They look like old-school scifi spacemen.

[jaxom]

13 hours ago, TheMawr said:

I can assure you thats not how it works... 

*SNIP*

However, lets assume that it IS how they do it.. that GW has to make the actual full CAD 28mm first, then rescale and then re adjust to the new scale.

Sometimes it is how they do it. They first talked about it for Adeptus Titanicus. They created CAD files based on the 28mm resin sculpts and then scaled them down in the software, picking and choosing which details to keep and which to ditch.

 

Personally, I expect that the 28mm scale SA are not 1:1 with the resin, but were resculpted  (similar to the Mk3 armour) to simplify some of the details.

[Matcap86]

9 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Sometimes it is how they do it. They first talked about it for Adeptus Titanicus. They created CAD files based on the 28mm resin sculpts and then scaled them down in the software, picking and choosing which details to keep and which to ditch.

 

Personally, I expect that the 28mm scale SA are not 1:1 with the resin, but were resculpted  (similar to the Mk3 armour) to simplify some of the details.

 

Yeah this is my "worry". I'm going back and forth on getting some more SA infantry now instead of when the plastics are shown and they're disappointing compared to the resin. With the resin going OOP beforehand like happend with the mk3s and the Death Korps.

[apologist]

1 hour ago, matcap86 said:

Yeah this is my "worry". I'm going back and forth on getting some more SA infantry now instead of when the plastics are shown and they're disappointing compared to the resin. With the resin going OOP beforehand like happend with the mk3s and the Death Korps.

 

Having beaten around the bush too many times over the years on this sort of thing, my advice is (budget allowing, of course) to pull the trigger and buy models you like at the time. Whether the new ones are also to your taste is then a moot point. :)

 

I'm looking forward to the preview. GW have just popped up an article about a Catachan novel, and while it's likely wishful thinking, perhaps the 40k segment will preview Catachans as part of a second wave or standalone release for the Guard.

[TheMawr]

26 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

YArr outside of infantry the SA vehicles are all exactly the same as 40k ones, just (sensibly) without the sponsons, which are optional in most kits anyway. 

I could see them repacking anyway, its essentially what they did with the Knights, but ideally they could at least do a SA vehicle upgrade sprue as Apologist suggests, especially if they are going to be direct only like the knights and thus essentially more expensive anyway! 

 

Its also unlikely that they would do the entire range in plastic (at least not in one go, or even one year).. in the same game where spacemarines.. the golden gooses.. get their units dripfed, both in plastic and others still in resin.

 

Looking back trough the Horus heresy releases for speculation material made me realise how much more likely it is the mystery army release has been misinterpreted or in the least overamplified. I think there is a significant chance we are only looking at max 4 plastic kits release here.

 

It is not impossible ofcourse that Solar auxilia (or whatever it is) get more plastic releases in one release as Spacemarines got in a year (GW is a fickle enough company, Im the first to admit), but is it likely ?

 

Its not much of an argument for or against anything, as for all of them I could see just a core to base upgrade sprues on makes sense.. taking the two main contenders for people here :

 

 

The Mechanicum one would have a much wider usability (apparently even in SA armies), however that never has been a serious factor for GW ( the most widely used unit in 40k, servitors, still live on as their 2nd edition sculpts... not in plastic.) and Im thinking with the timing of the Admech codex, they would be included in some capacity, and we would have known by now or at least have rumors.

The lack of rumors being another possible argument for solar auxilia. I think they more easily fall under the radar than the others, not in the last place because of the lack of 40k compatibility ( 40k usually has more rumors and leaks than any of the other games )

 

Looking at the sisters of silence list ( for me still a contender in the speculation ) it would need only 2 plastic kits to cover those bases, one of wich being the enryne jetbikes.

[Marshal Rohr]

While I think the mystery army will be Solar Aux the sprue breakdown seems overly ambitious. 
 

Solar Auxilia Lasrifles Section - 1 Sprue of 5 miniatures, repeated four times per box with an upgrade sprue for sergeant, vox, and vexilla. 
Veletarii Sprue - 1 Sprue of 5 Miniatures, repeated four times per box with the same upgrade sprue for sergeant, Vox, and vexilla as the Lasrifles Section

Veletarii Weapon Upgrade Sprue - 1 sprue with rotor cannons, plasma guns, grenade launchers, meltaguns, flamers, and power axes 

Solar Auxilia Tactical Command Section - We won’t know how SG is doing these because we haven’t seen the Legion Command squad, rumored to make 5 models with Vexilla, Apothecary, Commander, and several upgrades so the box can be 5 consuls

Aethon Pattern Sentinel - 3 Sprues, similar to Contemptor and Leviathan 

 

Thats six molds before we even get into Tanks. I doubt they will have a Leman Russ for 40K and Heresy, so either the 40K Russ is getting redone or Solar Aux will begin using the 40K russ. GW recently put all the russ sprues in a single box, so maybe it is getting redone, but I can’t see it. Then we get into Basilisk and Medusas, Malcadors, and the Aurox/Carnodon. That’s essentially dropping a new 40K armies worth of models for a Heresy faction that, going by internet discourse, is fundamentally disliked by both 40K and 30K players for its look and performance on the table. 
 

Mechanicum, however, has zero cross sales causing major issues like the Russ. But its robot heavy army means it’s essentially an army of Contemptor/Leviathan/Deredeo sprues. If GW wasn’t so nonsensically hostile to cross sales I could see it being tied to the upcoming Ad Mech codex but the rules design philosophy is a such a joke now that many options would make their brains explode. 
 

The only option really left would be Sisters of Silence, since they are an afterthought for 40K and the Product Manager goblins at GW wouldn’t care if the boxes say 30K, unlike the Leman Russ which they think would confuse someone if you told them to buy the Astra Militarum Leman Russ for their Solar Auxilia. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Marshal Rohr

[TheMawr]

1 hour ago, jaxom said:

Sometimes it is how they do it. They first talked about it for Adeptus Titanicus. They created CAD files based on the 28mm resin sculpts and then scaled them down in the software, picking and choosing which details to keep and which to ditch.

 

Personally, I expect that the 28mm scale SA are not 1:1 with the resin, but were resculpted  (similar to the Mk3 armour) to simplify some of the details.

 

There is ofcourse a big difference between doing this  https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/TitanicusMinis-Aug8-Size4fs.jpg and doing this https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/x0YAzM1NPxsg1QzD.jpg

 

I was talking about the latter, as we are not talking about Knights. ( it sounds snappy.. but I dont mean it as such, just to make sure you know :) )

[Xenith]

15 hours ago, TheMawr said:

You conceptually scale down. And imho, thats what they meant

 

I'm sure they literally said that the design it big in 28mm then shrink it down to the 8mm scale, in the same manner as the old 3 ups, then they look at the small model and see if any details need to be tweaked to make it clear what they are. 

[Marshal Rohr]

Didn’t one of the designers say in Twitch interview or Voxcast they had embarked on a large project years and years ago to convert existing models entirely into CAD for copyright reasons? The Titan designer interview maybe?

[TheMawr]

7 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

I'm sure they literally said that the design it big in 28mm then shrink it down to the 8mm scale, in the same manner as the old 3 ups, then they look at the small model and see if any details need to be tweaked to make it clear what they are. 

 

"We conceptualise things with artwork and so on, much like how we might have started with a three-up scale model** back in the day. It’s important to us that everything is consistent across both sizes, so that players can envisage and even create their armies in both systems."

 

Direct quote from the interview.

 

 

edit :

Mind you though that the whole design discussion doesnt really mean anything for plastic releases.. as CAD is used for resin releases too... it doesnt even mean something get released physically at all. I think Ive seen more, but this is the only one I come at right now :

Edited November 8, 2023 by TheMawr

[CL_Mission]

1 hour ago, apologist said:

 

I'm looking forward to the preview. GW have just popped up an article about a Catachan novel, and while it's likely wishful thinking, perhaps the 40k segment will preview Catachans as part of a second wave or standalone release for the Guard.

I had the same thought when I saw the article. I don't imagine it will happen but a surprise Catachan release would be pretty exciting even if it's not an army I'm about to jump into right away.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm willing to bet 3 sanctified boltgun shells that the design process they scale down is likely not the finished, detailed product of the 40K/28mm version, rather a basic design of it.

 

Which is kinda cool, as then suitably cool things can be added to various sized end results of the products.

[WrathOfTheLion]

26 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I'm willing to bet 3 sanctified boltgun shells that the design process they scale down is likely not the finished, detailed product of the 40K/28mm version, rather a basic design of it.

 

Which is kinda cool, as then suitably cool things can be added to various sized end results of the products.

They mentioned they had to know what the details were in order to make the choice what to keep and modify to represent that design, so I think it has to be more than basic.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well the SA medusa and basilisk are actually on a Russ hull instead of a chimera one, and the non-track parts of it are an upgrade kit with a lot of the trim that you can see on the LI baneblade.

 

It's very possible that a SA Russ would be a new kit that can be used as the core of the various battle tanks and artillery. It'd also explain the removal of sponson options if they want to cut down on total sprues.

[Aarik]

I think there are arguments that make sense for Solar Aux, Mechanicum, and Sisters of Silence.  Of the three options, I think that SA makes a lot of sense with the LI tie-in.  But my rule of thumb for GW's preview streams is to basically expect the most disappointing possible option -- so I wouldn't be surprised if the "mystery plastic army" is another, less exciting option that no one has thought of yet (or ends up just being the few missing SoS units in plastic).

[Astartes Consul]

16 minutes ago, Aarik said:

I think there are arguments that make sense for Solar Aux, Mechanicum, and Sisters of Silence.  Of the three options, I think that SA makes a lot of sense with the LI tie-in.  But my rule of thumb for GW's preview streams is to basically expect the most disappointing possible option -- so I wouldn't be surprised if the "mystery plastic army" is another, less exciting option that no one has thought of yet (or ends up just being the few missing SoS units in plastic).

I think SoS getting the missing units in plastic would be a) amazing and b) boil the blood of 99% of us currently trying to guess what it might be 

[Indy Techwisp]

I feel its appropriate to remind people that this preview stream is only going to be an hour long.

 

Since we already know we're getting a full wave reveal for AoS's Flesh Eater Courts and probably the last Dawnbringers book, that's most likely to be at least, if not more than, 65% of the entire runtime of the stream.

 

I highly doubt they'd also manage to fit in a full plastic Army reveal for HH at the same time considering there's another 5 systems that have something to reveal in the same stream.

 

IMO, if the HH "Mystery Army Plastic Release" is shown off here, then they were meaning that a mystery army would get a plastic kit rather than a mystery Army gets a full plastic makeover.

[jaxom]

3 hours ago, TheMawr said:

 

There is ofcourse a big difference between doing this  https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/TitanicusMinis-Aug8-Size4fs.jpg and doing this https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/x0YAzM1NPxsg1QzD.jpg

 

I was talking about the latter, as we are not talking about Knights. ( it sounds snappy.. but I dont mean it as such, just to make sure you know :) )

I don't know, it looks to me like they just shrunk down the CAD for this guy and removed any details too small for the mold.

[Captain Idaho]

An hour long? So 53 minutes of Legions Imperialis?

 

 

[TheHaplessHeretic]

4 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

 

Thats six molds before we even get into Tanks. I doubt they will have a Leman Russ for 40K and Heresy, so either the 40K Russ is getting redone or Solar Aux will begin using the 40K russ. GW recently put all the russ sprues in a single box, so maybe it is getting redone, but I can’t see it. Then we get into Basilisk and Medusas, Malcadors, and the Aurox/Carnodon. That’s essentially dropping a new 40K armies worth of models for a Heresy faction that, going by internet discourse, is fundamentally disliked by both 40K and 30K players for its look and performance on the table. 
 

 

 

 

Why would the existence of a 30k/Solar Aux Russ mean the 40k Russ needs to be redone? The Deimos Rhino and its variants didn't require the mars pattern rhino/pred/vindicator to go OOP for 40k. What SGS and main studio do have little to no bearing on one other.

[Marshal Rohr]

22 minutes ago, TheHaplessHeretic said:

 

Why would the existence of a 30k/Solar Aux Russ mean the 40k Russ needs to be redone? The Deimos Rhino and its variants didn't require the mars pattern rhino/pred/vindicator to go OOP for 40k. What SGS and main studio do have little to no bearing on one other.

Let’s check back when existing stocks run out! 

[MegaVolt87]

5 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

While I think the mystery army will be Solar Aux the sprue breakdown seems overly ambitious. 
 

Solar Auxilia Lasrifles Section - 1 Sprue of 5 miniatures, repeated four times per box with an upgrade sprue for sergeant, vox, and vexilla. 
Veletarii Sprue - 1 Sprue of 5 Miniatures, repeated four times per box with the same upgrade sprue for sergeant, Vox, and vexilla as the Lasrifles Section

Veletarii Weapon Upgrade Sprue - 1 sprue with rotor cannons, plasma guns, grenade launchers, meltaguns, flamers, and power axes 

Solar Auxilia Tactical Command Section - We won’t know how SG is doing these because we haven’t seen the Legion Command squad, rumored to make 5 models with Vexilla, Apothecary, Commander, and several upgrades so the box can be 5 consuls

Aethon Pattern Sentinel - 3 Sprues, similar to Contemptor and Leviathan 

 

Thats six molds before we even get into Tanks. I doubt they will have a Leman Russ for 40K and Heresy, so either the 40K Russ is getting redone or Solar Aux will begin using the 40K russ. GW recently put all the russ sprues in a single box, so maybe it is getting redone, but I can’t see it. Then we get into Basilisk and Medusas, Malcadors, and the Aurox/Carnodon. That’s essentially dropping a new 40K armies worth of models for a Heresy faction that, going by internet discourse, is fundamentally disliked by both 40K and 30K players for its look and performance on the table. 
 

Mechanicum, however, has zero cross sales causing major issues like the Russ. But its robot heavy army means it’s essentially an army of Contemptor/Leviathan/Deredeo sprues. If GW wasn’t so nonsensically hostile to cross sales I could see it being tied to the upcoming Ad Mech codex but the rules design philosophy is a such a joke now that many options would make their brains explode. 
 

The only option really left would be Sisters of Silence, since they are an afterthought for 40K and the Product Manager goblins at GW wouldn’t care if the boxes say 30K, unlike the Leman Russ which they think would confuse someone if you told them to buy the Astra Militarum Leman Russ for their Solar Auxilia. 

 

SA are derided for their lack of plastic options, thus being an expensive army to build with the infantry. Same with mechanicum, though the cost can be mitigated by a lower model count build with the bigger kill bots. The mk VI box is stacked, makes sense to do a x20 man las rifle section box and a bunch of add on boxes that bolt on. Look how stacked the special weapons legion box is, amazing value there. FW is changing, there is a move to get normal tanks/ vehicle's and generic infantry out of the SBU and into GW main. Of course, if there are any new SA named characters released later, I fully expect them to be resin, matches the pattern. Again, GW has abandoned the cross sell with its recent moves, 30k is its own thing, SA are intended for 30k, but if you want to use them in 40k go ahead, they won't have rules though. Just like how you can take cata terminators if you match the wargear to indomni ones, as proxies. You buying 30k mini's to use in 40k is just a happy coincidence for GW, its no longer expected to make such a cross sell.