Heresy PDF Updates

[Joe]

Updates are currently being made to the PDFs on WarCom.

[Astartes Consul]

 Very quick scan but looks like quite a lot of tweaks to the Legacies PDF

 

Legion Baneblade and variants now at 650 points jumps out.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Astartes Consul

[Joe]

Article is now up.

Quote

 

The Age of Darkness Rulebook, Liber Astartes, and Liber Hereticus have each received a number of updates, including clarifications to Reactions that let you make a Shooting Attack or react to a Charge, clearing up how Graviton and Haywire weapons work against mixed squads, and answers to various FAQs. You can download all three below – all changes are in magenta, for ease of reading.

 

The Liber Imperium corrects some profiles for Sisters of Silence units like the Kharon Acquisitor, while the Liber Mechanicum receives an important change to Knights Armiger, making them susceptible to Haywire, Detonation, Armourbane (X), and Battlesmith (X) in the same manner as Dreadnoughts.

 

Exemplary Battles: Volume One also tidies up certain interactions in the new Legiones Hereticus rules for Fulgrim’s corrupted Legion.

 

Legacy factions and esoteric units have also had a careful eye cast over them, with changes directly incorporated into new versions of the downloadable documents. You’ll find increased durability on Marauder aircraft, a clarification to Imperialis Militia Voidjumpers, a boosted blast radius for the Praetor Armoured Assault Launcher, and more, plus a bundle of points changes throughout the Legacies of the Age of Darkness.

 

 

[01RTB01]

Rylanor has had his WS bumped to 6, attacks to 4 and Ld to 10 alongside a points increase by 10. He was already overcosted at 205 lol. The WS and attack boost probably means he's now worth running. Thankful mine is painted now.

[Shovellovin]

Does the change to Merciless Fighters and disordered charges mean it always occurs? What are people’s thoughts? 
I’ve found Merciless Fighters to be quite powerful and difficult to deal with but perhaps that is just my experience and not others. Also, that would seem to unintentionally affect Dorn’s special rule about disordered charges. 

[Marshal Rohr]

Unless I’m going crazy the super-heavies for Solar Auxilia went up in points?

[Varyn]

Fulmentarus is the stand out for me; they lost AP2 on their missiles (now breaching 4+) and their wargear which allowed them to shoot without requiring LoS has been replaced with Night Vision and Twin-Linked, a much needed change. 

 

It looks like lots of the legion specific characters can now satisfy RoW consul requirements too.

 

 

[Jings]

Thoughts: 

 

Nice to see Attack Bikes get an extra wound and what looks to be a modest points reduction. 200 points for 3 Multi Melta Attack Bikes down from 230. Three MMs on a quick Relentless 2W platform isn't fantastic, but it's at least something to consider now. +5/10 for the Autocannon and +15/20 for the MMs on top of these reductions would have made them a much more tempting prospect however and I'm still probably just gonna run my Attack Bikes as counts as HB/MM Land Speeder Proteus. As an aside, it's a shame they didn't take this opportunity to reduce the points costs of the Proteus, and/or its weapon options. I suppose they aren't at the same incredibly rough spot that Attack Bikes were at, and they have to shift those Javelins one way or the other. 

 

Giving them the extra wound they should have had from the start as well as a points drop is nice and all, but it's still not enough to fix the glaring problems with bikers as a whole until they return them to T5 or the old school T4(5) ruling to prevent them being being deleted en-masse by Lascannons. 

 

Confirmation that the Power Weapons a Chaplain can master-craft are the standard four is disappointing but not unexpected. Given that the they're Hatred givers anyway it's not too big a deal and you'll still do serious work with the rerollable TH they're going to always have anyway, but it would have been nice to have that expanded. 

 

It's a damn shame that Apothecaries and Techmarines being unable to join Retinue squads seems to be confirmed here. Final nail in the coffin for them I suppose which is a huge shame. At this point I think they should, frankly, just be added to the Command Squad datasheet as optional upgrades for Chosen. 

 

Last little thoughts: 

 

Nullificator mauls going to +2 str is nice. I fancy a squad when I do my Dark Angels. All the Baneblade chassis vehicles have lost about 100 points, dunno if that'll make them worth it though. Confirmation that special Bolters can't take bayonets sucks (but I built my MSU IW tacs with chainswords anyway so it's nbd). 

[Stitch5000]

Unit                               1.1     1.2
Stormblade                  750    650
Baneblade                   750     650
etc etc

Praetor Launcher         650    500
Crassus                        400    300

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Fulmentarus took the brunt of the nerf bat.

[Stitch5000]

3 minutes ago, Jings said:

It's a damn shame that Apothecaries and Techmarines being unable to join Retinue squads seems to be confirmed here. Final nail in the coffin for them I suppose which is a huge shame.

"Final nail in the coffin?" So scoring squads with Heart of the Legion and therefore FNP 4+ are a waste of time? 

 

[Jings]

Just now, Stitch5000 said:

"Final nail in the coffin?" So scoring squads with Heart of the Legion and therefore FNP 4+ are a waste of time? 

 

 

Let me finish that thought: Final nail in the coffin for the argument that not allowing them to join Retinue squads was an oversight. 

[Shovellovin]

4 minutes ago, Jings said:

 

It's a damn shame that Apothecaries and Techmarines being unable to join Retinue squads seems to be confirmed here. Final nail in the coffin for them I suppose which is a huge shame. At this point I think they should, frankly, just be added to the Command Squad datasheet as optional upgrades for Chosen. 

Are they unable to join because retinues are considered as already having an IC in them?

[Jings]

Just now, Shovellovin said:

Are they unable to join because retinues are considered as already having an IC in them?

 

Yeah, pretty much. When you're assigning Apothecaries/Techmarines to squads during deployment, you have to add them before you add any ICs which you can't do with Retinues as they're considered to be the same unit as the IC they're accompanying. 

[Mandragola]

The legacies document has significantly changed Fulmentarus terminators, whose missiles have been heavily nerfed. They've lost Brutal, they're S7 and now AP4 breaching 4+. They still have the 4-shot option.

 

Edit: And I see everyone else has already spotted and reported that! Oh well.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Mandragola

[Marshal Rohr]

I guess this means the AV 13 on superheavies is intentional 

[Lord Marshal]

Solar Auxilia Baneblade variants getting cheaper is good. I mean, they're still way too expensive, but at least you can actually use the Shadowsword in 3000pt games now. 

 

44 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Unless I’m going crazy the super-heavies for Solar Auxilia went up in points?

 

They all dropped or stayed the same. It's just the SA Stormhammer and Militia Baneblade were the only 'reasonably' (by comparison) pointed ones and even with the points decrease, the Legacies ones are still more expensive than both.

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[Xenith]

43 minutes ago, Varyn said:

Fulmentarus is the stand out for me; they lost AP2 on their missiles (now breaching 4+) and their wargear which allowed them to shoot without requiring LoS has been replaced with Night Vision and Twin-Linked, a much needed change. 

 

It's worse than that - they went from [S8, AP2, Brutal 2] to [S7, AP4, Breaching 4+], totally lost power weapons, and had guided fire swapped for night vision.

It's really stupid as it's just killed them for UM players, and Alpha legion will just pivot to Siege tyrants! They could really have done with making them 2 shots, or reduced the point cost along with the effectiveness. As it is, the meta just lost another effective counter for contemptors, making them much stronger. As they are now, they're just a terminator with a plasma gun and night fight (worse than a 10pt augury scanner) instead of a power weapon. They should be 40-45pts each at that output, or 225 for 5 then 40pts each. 

 

31 minutes ago, Shovellovin said:

Are they unable to join because retinues are considered as already having an IC in them?

They're not just considered to have an IC in them, they actually do have an IC in them be definition.

[Stitch5000]

5 minutes ago, Xenith said:

As it is, the meta just lost another effective counter for contemptors, making them much stronger.

The plasma profile is about optimised for zapping Contemptors... 

[SkimaskMohawk]

There's some good corrections in the main rules, and if it's them getting into the swing of support post LI then I'm with it as a starting point.

 

But I also remember saying something very similar a year or so ago when they finally fixed their screw up with return fire. There's still a lot more work to go on the mechanical interactions, let alone balancing.

 

@Stitch5000 idk what kind of mental gymnastics you're playing at. They're literally worse at killing contemptors than before.

Edited December 5, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[Stitch5000]

13 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

@Stitch5000 idk what kind of mental gymnastics you're playing at. They're literally worse at killing contemptors than before.

Plasma profiles are great at putting wounds on Contemptors. The numbers involved hint that plasma weapons were written with efficiency against Contemptors in mind. 

They aren't as good as before, but in that case they were just good at everything, evidently an unintended consequence. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Stitch5000

[Marshal Rohr]

Very odd about the apothecaries in command squad because the new sprue will actually come with apothecary bits. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

29 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

It's worse than that - they went from [S8, AP2, Brutal 2] to [S7, AP4, Breaching 4+], totally lost power weapons, and had guided fire swapped for night vision.

It's really stupid as it's just killed them for UM players, and Alpha legion will just pivot to Siege tyrants! They could really have done with making them 2 shots, or reduced the point cost along with the effectiveness. As it is, the meta just lost another effective counter for contemptors, making them much stronger. As they are now, they're just a terminator with a plasma gun and night fight (worse than a 10pt augury scanner) instead of a power weapon. They should be 40-45pts each at that output, or 225 for 5 then 40pts each. 

 

They're not just considered to have an IC in them, they actually do have an IC in them be definition.

GW over corrected. And I agreewith making hellfire heavy 2. I would think Alphas would just take Suzerain, or Star-killers and be fine.

 

1 hour ago, Mandragola said:

The legacies document has significantly changed Fulmentarus terminators, whose missiles have been heavily nerfed. They've lost Brutal, they're S7 and now AP4 breaching 4+. They still have the 4-shot option.

 

Edit: And I see everyone else has already spotted and reported that! Oh well.

It's down to S4 from 5.

[Stitch5000]

22 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Very odd about the apothecaries in command squad because the new sprue will actually come with apothecary bits. 

What new sprue?

[Marshal Rohr]

For the command squad