Kill Team Kill Team Termination GSC vs Votann

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Dr. Clock said:

To me there's alot to enjoy in the kit but I can't escape the feeling that the closed coat ones are simply inferior. 

 

The bolt crossbow is the standout for me. That one might be worth a pickup separate on eBay once this kit is out in the wild. A bunch of those guys, hoods up, with some e-tools thrown in would have been awesome.

[Zoatibix]

The only thing about these GSC that interests me is the sniper rifle. The rest of it seems to mainly be heads that look (understandably) like the ones I can already get from existing Neophytes.

 

 

[silverstu]

Love the Hernkyn = nice range of stuff for a killteam, I'm sure they will have a more straightforward build for 40k. Hoping they get infiltrate and maybe keep their ability to lay mines from KT. Nice bit in the lore about a Votann fleet tracking a Nid Fleet as it devours worlds, waiting until it is ripe before they ambush it to harvest the bio-resources..

[irlLordy]

I'm happy that these two teams both look like they've been designed for Kill Team and aren't just thinly disguised 40k squads. The patriarch is an interesting choice, would seem a bit overpowered, but we'll see what his datasheet looks like. I would have guessed that he'd be with an actual genestealer team, but designers were probably constrained by sprue limitations. 

 

Hernkyn look good, especially the ironkyn specialist. Will be using the tmnt paint scheme for them, so bulky coats fit right in.

[TheVoidDragon]

6 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

That is fair. Just wanted to share my perspective, because there is more to it than just "WHY DORF NOT ON BIKE ".

 

For me, these guys do not give off any particularly strong vibe. They just look like Pioneers who got off of their bikes for a minute. Maybe that is because my hope was for something more like a Votann equivalent to Dwarf rangers.

 

They are the pioneers without bikes though, they're both Hernkyn. Their role is to explore and scout ahead of main forces and operate on their own for extended periods, to me the coats, hats and assortment of clothes give off that frontier/wildness theming fairly well.

 

 

[Indy Techwisp]

7 hours ago, phandaal said:

They just look like Pioneers who got off of their bikes for a minute.

 

I mean.

That's pretty much exactly what they are.

See this artwork here of a Hernkyn for an example:

[phandaal]

32 minutes ago, TheVoidDragon said:

They are the pioneers without bikes though, they're both Hernkyn.

 

  

11 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

I mean.

That's pretty much exactly what they are.

See this artwork here of a Hernkyn for an example:

 

Seeing a lot of this sentiment. These guys are Hernkyn minus the bikes, they look like Hernkyn minus the bikes. Ergo - good, love it. Guys, come on. Obviously we all know these models are Hernkyn, so it should go without saying that any sense of disappointment is because of something other than that.

 

When people expressed excitement about the prospect of pioneers on foot, were they saying they literally wanted models that look like they just hopped down from their pioneer bike and started walking around?

 

Personally, I was hoping for more.

 

Edited March 21 by phandaal

[Indy Techwisp]

2 minutes ago, phandaal said:

Seeing a lot of this sentiment. These guys are Hernkyn minus the bikes, they look like Hernkyn minus the bikes. Ergo - good, love it.

 

When people expressed excitement about the prospect of pioneers on foot, were they saying they literally wanted models that look like they just hopped down from their pioneer bike and started walking around?

 

Personally, I was hoping for more.

 

The Leagues of Votann diorama at Warhammer World heavily features modified Hernkyn pioneers to put them in foot.

This was to match their little lore blurb and to represent the artwork I posted above.

 

So yes, people did just want Hernkyn on foot and not a completely redesigned unit.

[TheVoidDragon]

5 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Seeing a lot of this sentiment. These guys are Hernkyn minus the bikes, they look like Hernkyn minus the bikes. Ergo - good, love it.

 

When people expressed excitement about the prospect of pioneers on foot, were they saying they literally wanted models that look like they just hopped down from their pioneer bike and started walking around?

 

Personally, I was hoping for more.

 

If the coats, hats etc were bike-specific then I could understand the issue, but they're Hernkyn design elements rather than intended for a specific unit. It's part of their design ethos of giving them a frontier exploration look, because that's their role within Kin Society.

 

They retain the core element of the coats that are associated with their job within the Leagues and overall design inspiration, and then ontop of that have some changes and extra to give them a slightly different take on it - the bandoliers, plasma weapons, backpacks etc. I wouldn't expect them to be some entirely different looking unit when they aren't that, in the same way most other mounted units that also have an infantry equivalent doesn't drastically change between on bike and on foot.

[phandaal]

6 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

So yes, people did just want Hernkyn on foot and not a completely redesigned unit.

 

Well, that would explain it. People wanted the guy from the diorama, they got the guy from the diorama. I was hoping for something more like rangers, which is why I am disappointed.

 

Maybe when the Votann get the next unit wave we will see something else to fill the foot-scout role, but my fear is that this release means the design pass for "pioneers on foot" is done for 40k as well as Kill Team.

 

And hopefully now we can stop posting that these guys are in fact pioneers on foot, like that is news to the guy with a space dwarf profile picture and one of the more active threads on this website's Votann subforum. I appreciate the attempted education, but it is really not necessary.

[TheVoidDragon]

7 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Well, that would explain it. People wanted the guy from the diorama, they got the guy from the diorama. I was hoping for something more like rangers, which is why I am disappointed.

 

Maybe when the Votann get the next unit wave we will see something else to fill the foot-scout role, but my fear is that this release means the design pass for "pioneers on foot" is done for 40k as well as Kill Team.

 

And hopefully now we can stop posting that these guys are in fact pioneers on foot, like that is news to the guy with a space dwarf profile picture and one of the more active threads on this website's Votann subforum. I appreciate the attempted education, but it is really not necessary.

 

I'm not entirely sure what sort of thing you're thinking of as "more like dwarf rangers" would be, any examples of the sort of thing you feel is missing? Like, looking at some art and such it seems to just be light armour with plenty of supplies, which they have. They are lacking the usual hooded cloaks at least.

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, phandaal said:

 

Well, that would explain it. People wanted the guy from the diorama, they got the guy from the diorama. I was hoping for something more like rangers, which is why I am disappointed.

 

Maybe when the Votann get the next unit wave we will see something else to fill the foot-scout role, but my fear is that this release means the design pass for "pioneers on foot" is done for 40k as well as Kill Team.

 

And hopefully now we can stop posting that these guys are in fact pioneers on foot, like that is news to the guy with a space dwarf profile picture and one of the more active threads on this website's Votann subforum. I appreciate the attempted education, but it is really not necessary.

 

In terms of Dwarven analogues in the LoV, we've got Dwarf Warriors (Hearthkyn Warriors), Dwarf Rangers (Hernkyn Pioneers/Yaegir), Dwarf Slayers (Cthonian Beserks), Ironbreakers (Einhyr Hearthguard) and Thunderers (Brokhyr Thunderkyn).

 

To be honest, other than adding just more variants on those, we've already touched on most of the types of WHFB Dwarf avaliable.

[phandaal]

Just now, TheVoidDragon said:

I'm not entirely sure what sort of thing you're thinking of as "more like dwarf rangers" would be, any examples of the sort of thing you feel is missing? Like, looking at some art and such it seems to just be light armour with plenty of supplies, which they have. They are lacking the usual hooded cloaks at least.

 

Hoods of any kind would have been a good start. The pioneer kit does come with hooded models, so they exist. Lose the bomber caps - those make sense for zipping around but not footslogging.

 

The open coats look like something you might see on the frontier. The closed coats look like something you would see down at the docks when it is cold and rainy. So, lose the closed coats and keep the open ones.

 

More axe-type weapons, fewer daggers. More bolt crossbows and rifles. Less emphasis on gunslingers with pistols and shotguns.

 

To me, that would give them more of a "ranger" vibe, and less of a "just stepped away from the bikes for a minute" vibe.

[Wispy]

Hernkyn are smartly dressed, the best thing about them, and it's cool they're also an infantry unit. The visual consistency and uniformity around what these scouty Votaans do is good, not bad.

 

No one complains that Outriders are just Assault Intercessors that decided to walk. It's a vehicle, it takes you somewhere, then you get off. 

 

Edited March 21 by Wispy

[Indy Techwisp]

2 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Hoods of any kind would have been a good start. The pioneer kit does come with hooded models, so they exist. Lose the bomber caps - those make sense for zipping around but not footslogging.

 

The open coats look like something you might see on the frontier. The closed coats look like something you would see down at the docks when it is cold and rainy. So, lose the closed coats and keep the open ones.

 

More axe-type weapons, fewer daggers. More bolt crossbows and rifles. Less emphasis on gunslingers with pistols and shotguns.

 

To me, that would give them more of a "ranger" vibe, and less of a "just stepped away from the bikes for a minute" vibe.

 

We haven't really seen the full extent of the kit yet so there could be some hooded heads in it still.

 

That said, the open/shut coat thing, if it's cold out and you have a coat, you'd do it up, right? Makes sense for some of our Yaegir here to do that.

 

Also regarding the shotguns.

As the Pioneer kit showed, Bolt Revolvers and Bolt Shotguns are the Hernkyn's "thing".

It's their (semi-)unique weapon class.

And what's more of a frontier appropriate weapon than a Shotgun anyway?

 

Those "Daggers" are more like Shortswords btw. Blade is longer than the forearm of the weilder.

As for the axes, we can see a few carrying them, and some mysterious handles worn on backs, so it's likely the Axe (or Axe equivalent like the Entrenching Tool) will be the default melee with a couple getting the better Plasma blades instead.

[phandaal]

3 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

snip

 

Right now, I am whelmed, but am definitely going to keep an eye on the actual kit to see if it can be assembled/kitbashed to something more in line with my preferences.

 

As @Dr. Clock noted, some of these Votann units look much better in real life than they do in the promo pics. Thunderkyn were that way for me. Pics were a miss, actual models are great.

[Indy Techwisp]

On a somewhat relates note, it's interesting that we seem to be approaching a change of "Core subfaction" for LoV.

 

There appears to be a pivot towards depicting the Orange and White Trans Hyperion Alliance rather than the Sand Green/Blue and Off-White Greater Thurian League, somewhat like how the T'au have pivoted from showing the Tan-Brown T'au Sept as the studio paintjob to the Crisp White Vior'la Sept as the default colours.

 

I wonder if that's just because the Orange pops better on the page or if they've realised White and Orange goes really well with the NASA-Punk vibes the LoV have going on...

[Lord Marshal]

29 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

On a somewhat relates note, it's interesting that we seem to be approaching a change of "Core subfaction" for LoV.

 

There appears to be a pivot towards depicting the Orange and White Trans Hyperion Alliance rather than the Sand Green/Blue and Off-White Greater Thurian League, somewhat like how the T'au have pivoted from showing the Tan-Brown T'au Sept as the studio paintjob to the Crisp White Vior'la Sept as the default colours.

 

I wonder if that's just because the Orange pops better on the page or if they've realised White and Orange goes really well with the NASA-Punk vibes the LoV have going on...

 

I think it's mainly just because Kill Team '21 uses a lot of orange in it's marketing. The boxes are mostly orange, the trailers have a lot of orange text, etc. So a sub-faction which is predominantly orange/black (with it's niche in-lore being reconnaissance-focused) fits well, plus it looks good on the front and back of the box.

 

Post-launch we've only had Kill Team releases for the Votann, so I think it's too early to say there's been shift yet. 

 

Edited March 21 by Lord Marshal

[TheVoidDragon]

8 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

The open coats look like something you might see on the frontier. The closed coats look like something you would see down at the docks when it is cold and rainy. So, lose the closed coats and keep the open ones.

 

 

 

I don't really see an issue with the 2nd of those, myself. The open coats gives more of a western sort of feel to them which is fine, but the closed version feels suitable for that sort of dark cold rainy weather vibe - they're greatcoats after all, so the purpose of them is to protect against rain, wind, provide warmth etc. It sounds fitting to me when the Leagues are themed on a mix of things like Antarctic expeditions and Victorian Mariners. 

[grailkeeper]

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Nice commandos, both. I already have a genestealer cult band in Necromunda with some old cadians "enlightened" so I can try this one. The Vottan are so cool but some miniatures look curious with closed trench coats over the body armour 

[MithrilForge]

The coats would look better in a green worn leather look … the browns for riding and greens for striding  

I’m actually tempted by this killteam , they have lots of character 

 

M 

[Jukkiz]

i wonder how they would look with helmets and black leather coats, kinda like NCR ranger vibes

[silverstu]

12 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

Hoods of any kind would have been a good start. The pioneer kit does come with hooded models, so they exist. Lose the bomber caps - those make sense for zipping around but not footslogging.

 

The open coats look like something you might see on the frontier. The closed coats look like something you would see down at the docks when it is cold and rainy. So, lose the closed coats and keep the open ones.

 

More axe-type weapons, fewer daggers. More bolt crossbows and rifles. Less emphasis on gunslingers with pistols and shotguns.

 

To me, that would give them more of a "ranger" vibe, and less of a "just stepped away from the bikes for a minute" vibe.

 

Yeah I can see where you are coming from. One thing though is there are bound to be more options on the sprue, at the very least there should be numerous alt heads- so hoods might be an alternative build? The eldar corsairs had a fully helmeted option which wasn't originally seen when they were shown, neither were their rifles and I think the SOB Noviates had alt builds as well that weren't evident immediately. The Hernkyn probably won't have a fully helmeted option so why not hoods - I'd prefer not fur lined as I don't use that one on the bikers- looks more like a tundra vibe, but a variety of hoods could be very cool. I like the coats though and having the odd one buttoned up, while not looking quite as good, seems ok to me.  Maybe they can all be build without shotguns as well. Hopefully when we see the full sprues you might get something closer to what you were hoping for. 

[TheVoidDragon]

Can someone explain why they dislike the ones with the closed coats? I've seen several dislike them but not really sure what the problem with them is.  It's definitely a pretty different feel to the others at least.

 

Also it is a little disapointing that there doesn't seem to be any helmet options, maybe there will be that we haven't seen yet but it just seems a bit odd that they really don't want to give these lighter voidarmour Kin helmets - these, Pioneers, The Ironmaster and Thunderkin all have no options for helmets. If/when they do, hopefully they're not just more of the same ones the rest have.