New Warhammer 40,000 Edition announced!

[Nephaston]

Feels like this is a first pass of detachment points until they manifest what they actually want to do with each individual codex release. Espcially something outright weird like Imperial Agents i can see being completely re-jigged and trimmed down to make them 1DP once they get their release slot.

I guess once we see the Ork and Marine codex well get an accurate idea.

[Crimson Longinus]

52 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

So, with all these Detachment Points now known, does anyone else feel GW kinda already screwed the Detachment mechanics?

 

This is the "big thing" for the new edition and if your Detachment was even remotely OK in 10th it's now 3DP and can't interact with the mechanic.

I'd be surprised if any 1dp detachments actually appear in early tourneys since none of the actually decent detachments can use them.

 

Yeah, it is disappointing. They should have made most stuff to be one or two points so that people actually could mix and match. 

[Antarius]

I guess it's also a product of them not wanting to push the general power level of the game. I mean, if the good detachments from 10th were 2P, armies would become more powerful overall.

Whether it'll be good/interesting/worth it to mix and match other detachments remain to be seen, but yeah, the codexes will probably roll out a lot of differently pointed detachments (that I'm sure will be perfectly balanced at publication).

 

My guess is that this will probably cause some shakeups as the edition progresses and will probably be the most fun for people who also like to mix up their army composition, as changes to detachment points/combos might potentially change the functionality of armies quite a bit. But again, we shall see.

[Tastyfish]

1 hour ago, Indy Techwisp said:

So, with all these Detachment Points now known, does anyone else feel GW kinda already screwed the Detachment mechanics?

 

This is the "big thing" for the new edition and if your Detachment was even remotely OK in 10th it's now 3DP and can't interact with the mechanic.

I'd be surprised if any 1dp detachments actually appear in early tourneys since none of the actually decent detachments can use them.

 

I think it's too early to make that call yet, especially as you're also assuming that the old best detachments are still going to be ranked the best despite the changes to the cover system, hidden mechanic, mission maps and dispositions.

 

I think 1DP detachments being taken just the chance up the disposition of another detachment might be more common than you might think.

 

[Laurence]

I'd assume that, once 11th edition codexes are published, the existing detachments will be re-worked to be less powerful and consequently fewer DP.  For the moment GW has just priced for power rather than errata to meet a pre-determined price point.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Laurence said:

I'd assume that, once 11th edition codexes are published, the existing detachments will be re-worked to be less powerful and consequently fewer DP.  For the moment GW has just priced for power rather than errata to meet a pre-determined price point.

 

Hard to guess what the long term plan is for these. Ideally every army should have decent range of 1, 2 and 3DP Detachments. I am not loving the weird choices they have made in pairing certain Detachments with certain Dispositions. For example, Liberator Assault Group, one of the fastest and most aggressive Detachments in the game has been given Take and Hold. That makes no sense unless GW are deliberately trying to nerf what they see as a strong Detachment.

[Ahzek451]

I think some of the "Weird" choices is just a natural result of having too many inputs in the system. I feel already that there are too many dials to turn in 11th that make it problematic to reign in and unless GW has some sort of grand plan to delete/reign in some of the detachments(I really doubt it), then I am getting the sense that we are in for a detachment heavy edition. 

[HeadlessCross]

5 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

So, with all these Detachment Points now known, does anyone else feel GW kinda already screwed the Detachment mechanics?

 

This is the "big thing" for the new edition and if your Detachment was even remotely OK in 10th it's now 3DP and can't interact with the mechanic.

I'd be surprised if any 1dp detachments actually appear in early tourneys since none of the actually decent detachments can use them.

I think so far it's fantastic. It opens up tons of options for detachments were close to being good to use different tools, with units you'd might ignore ordinarily. 

 

Like, being able to combine Fellhammer with the Havoc/Obliterator detachment is going to be tons of fun for me at least. Heck, even Warpstrike with that detachment opens up tons of combos one might ordinarily ignore. 

 

Did they get EVERY DP value right just yet, or give a disposition that is either appropriate or balances? Maybe not, but it's a start. 

[Tastyfish]

Imperial Agents not being allowed to appear on their own in games under 2K seems like one of those oversights (everything is 3DP).

[ThaneOfTas]

Yeah Agents got done dirty. Really expected them to all be 1DP and for them to be able to bring along that 1DP detachment when they ally into a 2DP Imperium army. them all being rendered 3 is insane

[HeadlessCross]

30 minutes ago, ThaneOfTas said:

Yeah Agents got done dirty. Really expected them to all be 1DP and for them to be able to bring along that 1DP detachment when they ally into a 2DP Imperium army. them all being rendered 3 is insane

Even 1DP would make the Assassin one usable. I'd gladly take a regular 2DP detachment of an Imperium army just for better assassins (even if you have to pay)

[Vassakov]

12 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Hard to guess what the long term plan is for these. Ideally every army should have decent range of 1, 2 and 3DP Detachments. I am not loving the weird choices they have made in pairing certain Detachments with certain Dispositions. For example, Liberator Assault Group, one of the fastest and most aggressive Detachments in the game has been given Take and Hold. That makes no sense unless GW are deliberately trying to nerf what they see as a strong Detachment.

 

I believe pairing the strongest in a vacuum detachments with dispositions that are not necessarily perfectly aligned with what you would want to do with that detachment is a very deliberate balancing decision.

 

Purge is likely the best disposition on paper (it remains to be seen how it will play) so giving the already very killy and aggressive detachments a wincon that plays into that seems like it might be thematically good but miserable to play against.

 

That having been said, if you're playing garagehammer with friends and want to mix it up a bit - go ahead. 

[Blindhamster]

2 hours ago, Vassakov said:

Purge is likely the best disposition on paper (it remains to be seen how it will play) so giving the already very killy and aggressive detachments a wincon that plays into that seems like it might be thematically good but miserable to play against.

a lot of khorne detachments get purge, as do a lot of orks

 

looking at win rate stats, the most successful detachment for blood angels is currently apparently firestorm assault force, LAG sits at 44% with both AI and RCO being 50%. 

berzerker warband sits at a 46% win rate apparently, but DOES use purge. (apparently possessed slaughterband is where its at for Khorne atm)

edit, for reference thats based on current details on stat check.

Edited June 12 by Blindhamster

[Galron]

I am not too fussed about the detachments. It gives a lot of leeway to mix and match unit types within an army and buff units that normally would be a waste in a 10th detachment. With my DE its going to be hard to play Reapers Wager in an escalation league since half the army isnt showing up until 2k but oh well. Im sure home rules will solve this problem such as skipping it entirely and allowing 3 DP at lower points so people can actually play their armies. I havent read too much into other army's detachments as my ADD currently has me working on the elves with singular focus until next week :P Im looking forward to trying things out.

 

ANyone know the actual release date? 

[Lord Marshal]

Event Companions, including a new one for Doubles and the Terrain Footprint printouts.

 

Edited June 12 by Lord Marshal

[Tastyfish]

Also the 3DP under 2K fix, under 2K you have the option to pick any one detachment (or two 1DP ones).

[01RTB01]

35 minutes ago, Galron said:

 

 

ANyone know the actual release date? 

 

20th June for Armageddon as per the GW webstore...

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

 

Red Thirsty 1000 point Blood Angels players:

[irlLordy]

Hmm, I wonder how many IA or 1k players they had during play testing if they're backtracking on the detachment points so early. Seems like this would have been pretty obvious to see as an issue.

[Bouargh]

1 hour ago, Lord Marshal said:

Event Companions, including a new one for Doubles and the Terrain Footprint printouts.

 

 

 What I retain from these downloads is that the rules for mustering armies are in the App. And not in the rules. I already imagined that as the section was missing from the core rules set in the download section a few days ago. But seeing it in writting is "curling my mustache hair". 

[Galron]

@ChapterMasterGodfrey thanks. That solves my Reapers Wager issue and lets me keep half my army :)

 

 

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Relatively elegant solution.  Should help the people who were real upset at their 1v1 1k points games who weren't capable of making some concessions.

I'm unsure, I dont see day -8 back peddling as a positive, it either shows they dgaf about 1k games (likely) or will bow on design and balance to a bit of noise.

[DemonGSides]

19 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

I'm unsure, I dont see day -8 back peddling as a positive, it either shows they dgaf about 1k games (likely) or will bow on design and balance to a bit of noise.

 

They don't care about 1k games, and probably they sort of expected people to be rational and work out such things on a case by case basis, because it's not something they expected casual players to care that much about.

 

Of course, no one cares more about the competitive stuff than the 'casual' community, so it was definitely an oversight.

[Crimson Longinus]

Yeah, that is a stupid fix. Now in 1000 points you sorta have to choose a three point detachment, as they're just better. And if that is fine to have, then certainly two plus one point combo would be fine too. It the battle size is not supposed to actually limit the detachment power, then just don't tie it to the battle size in the first place, and let it be three points all the time. 

 

And yeah, it does not exactly fill me with confidence, that they're already backpedalling. I though the detachment combining was good idea, but it seems the whole thing is half baked and they really did not think it through. 

[HeadlessCross]

Honestly, I'd rather they stuck to their guns with 3DP detachments being unplayable in smaller games.