Codex: Space Marines | Multi-Part Intercessor & Vanguard Vet Teaser | Legends Culling

[Indy Techwisp]

Core Marines are also the only faction nearly guaranteed to randomly get more kits at some point later in the edition, so only getting 1 new unit (new UM doesn't count) now isn't a big concern.

Especially because they've also gained the new stuff from the launch box as well, they're just not really considered "new" by now.

[phandaal]

4 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

They need to lose the Rhino as well.

 

Edit: for clarity, and the Landraider variants as well   

That way all my green Marines are in Legends with rules for free, and I only have to buy a DA Supplement.

 

Hottest take of all: what if the entire Space Marine range goes to Legends??

 

(It'd be just like the Sneetches!) 

[MoriyaSchism]

6 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

 

Ask dire avengers.

 

That aside, marines have had plenty of stuff over the 20 years eldar needed to get most kits updated. It doesn't hurt to not have more kits than half the gsme combined for once. Saying that there will no doubt be waves for the divergent chapters and a 2nd marine wave mid edition.

Their priorities are misplaced. It took 6 years for Space Marines to get a generic Captain/Lieutenant box with weapon options, but they made sure to do a bunch of random Captain sculpts and obtuse datasheets over the years first. Remember when you couldn't take a plasma pistol with a power sword and the plasma pistol was only available if you selected a power fist? Things for all factions could have been updated sooner if they didn't perform insane experiments on the Space Marine range.  All recent the Space Marine bloat for the generic Space Marine faction is a result of the botched Primaris replacement job and the Lieutenant/Captain datasheet spam. If we're just counting non-HQ infantry units for the generic Codex compliant units and comparing them to the Eldar, the comparison doesn't seem as outlandish. 3 basic Marine squads, 2 different Veteran squads, 2 Terminator squads and 2 varieties of Scout squad vs 2 types of Guardians, Rangers, Wraithguard, 7 infantry Aspect Warrior squads. 

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, MoriyaSchism said:

Their priorities are misplaced. It took 6 years for Space Marines to get a generic Captain/Lieutenant box with weapon options, but they made sure to do a bunch of random Captain sculpts and obtuse datasheets over the years first. Remember when you couldn't take a plasma pistol with a power sword and the plasma pistol was only available if you selected a power fist? Things for all factions could have been updated sooner if they didn't perform insane experiments on the Space Marine range.  All recent the Space Marine bloat for the generic Space Marine faction is a result of the botched Primaris replacement job and the Lieutenant/Captain datasheet spam. If we're just counting non-HQ infantry units for the generic Codex compliant units and comparing them to the Eldar, the comparison doesn't seem as outlandish. 3 basic Marine squads, 2 different Veteran squads, 2 Terminator squads and 2 varieties of Scout squad vs 2 types of Guardians, Rangers, Wraithguard, 7 infantry Aspect Warrior squads. 

 

Since 8th marine infantry boxes, not units:

 

Intercessors (twice)

Aggressors

Inceptors

Infiltrators

Reivers

Scouts

Sternguard

Vanguard

Eliminators

Eradicators

Hellblasters

Desolation

Terminators

Assault terminators

Assault intercessors

Jump intercessors

Bladeguard

Heavy intercessors

Infernus

 

Total: 19 infantry kits unless I missed one

 

I'll be kind enough to not count the other units that come with supplements nor the

ultramarine stuff, nor suppressors.

 

Eldar, as you note, have had:

Scorpions

Banshee

Reaper

Dragon

Hawk

Guardians

Rangers

Corsairs

Spiders

Jumpy corsairs

 

For a total of 10, whilst having one of the biggest refreshes period outside of marines and having to wait 20 years to get it.

 

They also have/had issues with warger stuck on specific autarch sculpts.

 

Marines get enough, stop being spoilt.

Edited Tuesday at 06:02 AM by Mogger351

[Halandaar]

15 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Didn't they try soft back dexs a while ago and then reverted to hard back cos of damage/fraying etc

 

No; all Codexes were softback from when they were first introduced in 2nd Edition (1993) until the end of 5th Edition (2011), and they've all been hardback ever since. There wasn't ever a point where they switched from hardbacks to softbacks, and then reverted back again.

 

On the point about this being a pretty modest Space Marine update, I am absolutely fine with that. We don't need new Marine units just for the sake of it; arguably that has been the problem with their release strategy since 2019 and how we ended up with so much bloat in the range. Keeping it to updates for existing/dated kits (Vanguard Veterans, Land Speeder) or bringing back Codex options that didn't have official models (Captain on Bike) is fine by me.

 

There's also every chance we'll see a second SM release wave, given that has happened in all three previous editions (8th Edition had the entire Phobos wave, vehicles and characters in 2019, 9th had the Desolators and Brutalis in early 2023, 10th had the 1st Founding characters and Assault Terminators in 2025). There are much higher priorities for the wider game than Marines getting the same unit again with a slightly different gun.

[Morovir]

I think they technically semi-reverted to softbacks partway through 7th edition (not sure if it was for only subsequent printings but my Deathwatch codex was definitely softback), but then went back to hardback for 8th.

[Orange Knight]

I have no issue with softback as long as we get to enjoy some of the financial savings

[redmapa]

Quote

There are much higher priorities for the wider game than Marines getting the same unit again with a slightly different gun.

 

And yet here we are getting the same unit again with a slightly different gun, the priorities are wrong even for marines.

[Mogger351]

36 minutes ago, redmapa said:

 

And yet here we are getting the same unit again with a slightly different gun, the priorities are wrong even for marines.

In which case what ever can they add at this point other than "other unit with gun" or a couple of replacement vehicles at most.

[LostTemplar]

Space Marines are the main seller. If GW didn't make the other races is because they don't sell all that well. The feedbck loop doesn't help of course, but thats the metric.

 

I was expecting something interesting, and hell, for Intercessors I was hoping for at least one guy in mk7 armour just to bring back older marks. Or, giving them a Heavy Bolter.

 

But the current release is a bit meh.

 

The codex is alright.

 

[redmapa]

1 minute ago, Mogger351 said:

In which case what ever can they add at this point other than "other unit with gun" or a couple of replacement vehicles at most.

 

How about something interesting? You know, something thats not 10 guys with bolters or a VanVet squad with LESS options, hell they couldve just given bolter eradicators some other guns, now its just two units with different guns so the codex can get even more bloated. 

 

I was actually excited to see the rumore venerable dread or the new land raider but I guess its not now but that doesnt really excuse the absolutely lame release that this has show itself to be.

 

Lets hope the  rules are fun at least.

[Brother Captain Alberic]

16 hours ago, redmapa said:

If  this whole release is just what they have shown then jesus what an anemic release, Outriders? They shouldve become a full kit YEARS AGO, no reason why they were kept as a push fit as long as they did. Bike Captain? Really boring sculpt. Vanguard Veterans? Horrible poses and they lost so many options Im not sure why Im supposed to be clapping for this kit, big miss. Intercessors? more like, yyaaawwn.

 

An entire army line gone and what exactly did we gain in return? Huge dissappointment, I really try to see things in a positive manner but this has been the WORST SM release since they came up with Centurions.

 

Also no mention of divergent chapters or any timeline for their supposed free PDF update or how many detachments each will get, I aint feeling this one.

Do they need to mention it they already said digital divergent rules release with the codex didn’t they?

[Mogger351]

36 minutes ago, redmapa said:

 

How about something interesting? You know, something thats not 10 guys with bolters or a VanVet squad with LESS options, hell they couldve just given bolter eradicators some other guns, now its just two units with different guns so the codex can get even more bloated. 

 

I was actually excited to see the rumore venerable dread or the new land raider but I guess its not now but that doesnt really excuse the absolutely lame release that this has show itself to be.

 

Lets hope the  rules are fun at least.

Well if we're honest you just suggested "same unit with different gun" which is the exact thing you complained about. I've no doubts that they'll get dread with bling and different gun as well in 18 months alongside new land raider but 20% more expensive.

Could be worse, you could be a grey knights player who has had 1 character and an upgrade sprue in 10 years. So yes, this marine release is a touch safe/boring/smaller than their usual slew of stuff but it's still more than many get in years and it's worth remembering this before complaining.

[redmapa]

4 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Well if we're honest you just suggested "same unit with different gun" which is the exact thing you complained about. I've no doubts that they'll get dread with bling and different gun as well in 18 months alongside new land raider but 20% more expensive.

Could be worse, you could be a grey knights player who has had 1 character and an upgrade sprue in 10 years. So yes, this marine release is a touch safe/boring/smaller than their usual slew of stuff but it's still more than many get in years and it's worth remembering this before complaining.

 

I play Black Templars, they didnt get an update to their line in 17 years so I know what its like to be left behind but that doesnt mean I cant complain so no thank you I will keep complaining.

[Halandaar]

2 hours ago, Morovir said:

I think they technically semi-reverted to softbacks partway through 7th edition (not sure if it was for only subsequent printings but my Deathwatch codex was definitely softback), but then went back to hardback for 8th.

 

Think these were additional print runs for specific Codexes; my own Deathwatch Codex from that edition was definitely hardback, and that was the default on release for all of them.

 

2 hours ago, redmapa said:

And yet here we are getting the same unit again with a slightly different gun, the priorities are wrong even for marines.

 

Yeah, the fact that a single unit (Devastator Squads) have had their role replaced by Desolators AND Hellblasters AND two different types of Eradicators AND arguably Lasfusil Eliminators AND are still lacking a direct replacement for Grav Cannons is absolute madness. But the releases this edition have at least massively toned down adding new stuff for it's own sake versus what was happening in the last three editions, and that's a good thing imo. 

[Indy Techwisp]

47 minutes ago, redmapa said:

I play Black Templars, they didnt get an update to their line in 17 years so I know what its like to be left behind but that doesnt mean I cant complain so no thank you I will keep complaining.

 

17 years ago is pre-primaris.

You have Primaris Black Templar kits.

 

Don't just lie and make up a big number to try and make us feel sorry for your plight.

[Mogger351]

3 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

17 years ago is pre-primaris.

You have Primaris Black Templar kits.

 

Don't just lie and make up a big number to try and make us feel sorry for your plight.

The were only not in the space marine codex, with access to their new releases and units in 4th edition. Yes they didn't get minis between 4th and 9th(?) with special shoulder pads and whatnot but they did get all of the relevant marine stuff. So in reality black templars got something almost annually. 

[Halandaar]

51 minutes ago, redmapa said:

I play Black Templars, they didnt get an update to their line in 17 years so I know what its like to be left behind but that doesnt mean I cant complain so no thank you I will keep complaining.

 

This is slightly disingenuous because obviously Black Templars could make use of the majority of the generic Space Marine kits released in those years, and there were a LOT of them. It's not really the same as a genuine content drought like Dark Eldar who had nothing between Vect in 2000 and the 5th Edition redesign in 2010, or Tyranids who got nothing between Shield of Baal in 2014 until the Parasite of Mortrex in 2022.

[redmapa]

Fine you lot win

 

its all amazing and awesome! WOW

 

More bolters? AMAZING!

 

Less options?! EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED!

 

How does James Workshop keep reading my mind?! Does Santa live in Nottingham?

 

Literally cannot complain, no complains from me anymore! THANK YOU!

 

I hope youre all happy.

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, redmapa said:

 

I play Black Templars, they didnt get an update to their line in 17 years so I know what its like to be left behind but that doesnt mean I cant complain so no thank you I will keep complaining.

Luxury! When I were a lad we used to dream of plastic noise marines. We used to have to get up before we went to bed, lived int septic tank and has to lick road clean every morning. That were 30 years ago, tell the kids today and they won't believe you. ;)

[Halandaar]

27 minutes ago, redmapa said:

Fine you lot win

 

its all amazing and awesome! WOW

 

More bolters? AMAZING!

 

Less options?! EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED!

 

How does James Workshop keep reading my mind?! Does Santa live in Nottingham?

 

Literally cannot complain, no complains from me anymore! THANK YOU!

 

I hope youre all happy.

 

 

 

I specifically agreed with you about the unit bloat caused by minor variations on the same thing. It is allowed for people to agree with one thing you say and disagree with another, you know. You don't need to have a tantrum about it.

[Marshal Reinhard]

3 hours ago, redmapa said:

 

How about something interesting? You know, something thats not 10 guys with bolters or a VanVet squad with LESS options, hell they couldve just given bolter eradicators some other guns, now its just two units with different guns so the codex can get even more bloated. 

 

I was actually excited to see the rumore venerable dread or the new land raider but I guess its not now but that doesnt really excuse the absolutely lame release that this has show itself to be.

 

Lets hope the  rules are fun at least.

Still holding out hope for a mid of edition release of a new land raider and venerable dread. But yeah.

[Orange Knight]

Hobbyists these days... 

 

Lots of new models -they complain about radical changes.

Lots of safe refreshes - they complain about things being boring.

 

Exciting new units - they complain that they have to invest in new releases.

 

Safe old units - they complain that they have nothing to buy with the new codex.

I have to clarify - I am joking.
Guys, let's all be happy that a new codex is on the horizon, and there is a real chance that Marines will feel more thematic and true to the lore than they ever did in the past.

I'll be perfectly honest and say that I'm pretty under-whelmed by the model releases. I was hoping we would see the new Venerable Dread, and I was hoping that the new Gravis unit would get a multi-part release with some exciting weapon options.

On the positive side, this will be a relatively cheap launch for me. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

I do not wish to hijack this thread, because this is not the forum for it. But there were many years where the Black Templars were specifically forbidden from using any of the recent space marine toys because we still had our own codex. A lot of pre-primaris new space marine toys came out that we were unable to use.

 

It wasn't until 6th edition when we finally got an update of sorts, in that we were rolled into the main space marine codex. Meaning we lost almost everything unique to us except the crusader squad and our 3 named characters. The Black Templars forum on here still hasn't recovered from that time.

 

But yes, from being incorporated we were at that time allowed to use all the new things instead. Except by then they weren't all that new anymore. Things like thunderfire cannons, centurions or hunters. But it would be some 17 years before there was finally a Black Templar specific release again. I suppose to filthy xenos and heretics this may still sound like luxury.

 

But we know what the long wait is like and belittling that isn't a good way to win any sympathy with us.

Edited Tuesday at 01:25 PM by Marshal Reinhard

[L30n1d4s]

I too am a little disappointed in the lack of new space marine units, but am hopeful that the overhaul of space marine profiles and weapons is enough to make up for the loss of so many "journeyman" units (i.e. Predators, Vindicators, Centurions, etc.).