Returning

[Jokersminis]

Hello All. My last game was just after 5th Edition released. I have played Utramarines, Night Lords, and T'au. I used to be a pretty decent painter.

I am looking to get back into the game and hobby. I don't have the time for a large model count army so I am aiming toward Chaos Knights. [I'm thinking 2-3 big knights, dogs, and a couple cultist mobs at 2000pts]
Is there anything I should know specifically about CK or 11th Edition before I jump back in?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Welcome back, Joker.  Chaos knights can definitely be fun and satisfying minis to paint.

 

As to playing Chaos knights in 11th, I tried 2 games in 11th with lists somewhat similar to what you intend - you can see the 2000 point list (and army photo) and corresponding game in this and the subsequent post.  Those are the only 2 games I've had, though, as I found them a bit underwhelming (and hard to transport to the game store) so I've since been fielding my Emperor's Children instead.

 

So, my thoughts are:

 

1.  11th has a bit of a steep curve going into it - the rules haven't changed much, but the way tables are set up and points are scored definitely have.  Be prepared to go a few games in to get a hang of how you score, how you hide & screen units, when you need to hold back, and when (and how much) you need to go in.

 

2.  Take time to review the various missions for the various Dispositions to determine what you and your potential opponents need to score.  Be prepared to change detachments and potentially take detachments with weaker rules if that gives you a disposition that you feel is easier to score.  I definitely think choosing Recon was a bit too "cute" of a choice and I would have been better choosing something else even with my 40-50 cultists.

 

3.  Chaos Knights aren't in the best place meta-wize at the moment, as our best unit (the despoiler knight) has gotten big point increases and one of the main benefits of titanic units (the ability to toe into terrain and shoot) is now universal to all units.  As such, you can expect to struggle into many opponents.

 

4.  I would recommend magnetizing your knights as you may need to try different types and loadouts to come up with a preferred army list.  Given that point costs and the meta (including your local meta) can change, this allows you to focus on painting the minis you want to paint rather than having to paint replacements for units you are unhappy with.  If you want advise on magnetizing, feel free to ask - I've done that on all of my knights.

 

5.  It might have been because I was going into custodes and dark angels, but I was not impressed by the killing power of my knights and found them rather swingy - particularly my Tyrant.  That said, I didn't field a Despoiler in either game.  The only one I was particularly impressed by was the Ravager, which ate pretty much any unit I was able to charge with it.

 

Anyway, I look forward to following your work on and games with your miniature giant robots.

[Jokersminis]

Thanks for the info!

 

Thank gives a number of points for me to think about.

[Lathe Biosas]

If you want a small army, you can do what did and play Adeptus Custodes. It's a fun painting challenge and a very tiny army to collect.

[Jokersminis]

My entire goal with this army is to return to, if not surpass, the level of painting I was at in 2006/2007 when I had 4 Final Cuts and a Bronze at Baltimore Games Days. Granted, the competitive painting scene has taken some HUGE leaps forward, but that doesn't change my goal. I wanted larger models because my eyes aren't the same 20 years later, and Chaos gives much more freedom for painting and modelling.

 

The artistic concept is 'House Osbourne', a renegade house based on the Prince of Darkness, using album and poster art for the free hand designs. ( I see the cultists as rabid fans)

 

To be fair, I don't expect to win much, but if both myself and my opponent like the way my boys look, I'll be happy.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Sounds like you are a couple of steps ahead of me in painting then, and I look forward to seeing your models.  Good luck on improving your painting quality - and as you noted, even if it isn't of the standards of the fantastic competitive (and professional) painters out there, as you note, that's not really the point.  Rather, at the end of the day, I'm sure you'll end up with some cool models that you can be proud of.

 

In my post, I noted being impressed by my Rampager - but I think I should also note that the much of the internet seems to have a much dimmer view of the datasheet, preferring the Lancer (one of the tall Cerastus chasis models originally from Forge World), which has a constant 4+ invulnerable (rather than just a 5+ only against shooting), is faster, and has a similar melee profile.  While the internet is probably right that the Lancer is better, I don't like the look of the model as much and don't intend to paint one.  That's not to say that it isn't possible to make great chaos knights on the Cerastus chasis (see Pete Sodes fantastic model).

 

How do you plan to build your knights?  Just using strictly chaos models, or converting imperial ones as well?  If you do intend on using some imperial models (which is largely unavoidable if you want to field a despoiler, unless you outsource or scratchbuild its guns), you might want to consider kitbashing them with their chaos versions - you can see my guide on how to do that with the Questoris/Abhorrent chasis knights here, or my discussion on doing it with the armigers/war dogs starting here.  Barring that, lots of skulls and the heretic astartes vehicle accessory sprue are your friend.

 

As for painting, here are some threads that might provide inspiration - Valkia the Bloody's fantastic Night Lords knight, Crevette's impressive chaos titans (unfortunately, most of her photo links are dead, but what remain are awesome), Dusk Raider's insane nurgle creations (just move backwards through the thread - he has many), Killersquid's beautiful black and red knights, and for some jaw dropping (though imperial) free hand work, lalabox's awesome work.  There is a lot more excellent knight examples here, particularly in the Forge section, though they can take some digging to find.

 

What are your thoughts on how you are going to model your cultists?  For some reason, the Necromunda Orlock models spring to mind as being theme appropriate - one advantage of having cultists only having one loadout now (autopistols and close combat weapons) is that it opens up space to give them anything you want as (other than the leader and his optional bolt pistol) the fact the model may have a rifle won't create any confusion.  Pete Sodes also made a fantastic cultist that might inspire your own.

 

Finally, and although not knights, techsolaten has been discussing his experience in 11th with a cultist heavy heretic astartes with a heavy shooting core - what he has to say about screens and sight lines could be useful for your own games.

 

Anyway, hope at least some of this is interesting or useful.

Edited 16 hours ago by Dr_Ruminahui