Brother Weasel Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 'Andys righteous fists of blood' [/i]attack and have their shiny new SR reduced to a smoldering pile of molten plastic!!! :P Think it would be easier just to tell them no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAGABOND Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Makes more sense for Blood Angels to have access to the Storm Raven than other SM, maybe even as a 0-1 Heavy Support choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallingplate Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 'Andys righteous fists of blood' [/i]attack and have their shiny new SR reduced to a smoldering pile of molten plastic!!! :lol: Think it would be easier just to tell them no... But it is funnier :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 'Andys righteous fists of blood' [/i]attack and have their shiny new SR reduced to a smoldering pile of molten plastic!!! ;) Think it would be easier just to tell them no... But it is funnier :lol: not for the other person, and vandalism is a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vharing Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 As much as I hate how GW has become a bunch of money grubbing whores lately, they are a company and any companies bottom line is to make money. Of course the GW guys are going to push for everyone to spend to money on a SR. If I ever play in a tourny I will flat out refuse to play the list if they are running a SR without a BA codex. I have already hand games off to ppl because of stuff like that. The last tourny I went to a kid was running inducted guard and SM in a GK list. I told him that he cant, that GW has redone his codex on line and took those options away from him. He was, of course, rude about it and I refused the game. His reasoning was that until GW puts it in a codex it isnt real. That reasonning should stand for this whole SR thing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I don't get that - you didn't agree with his reasoning, but still think it should apply here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 As much as I hate how GW has become a bunch of money grubbing whores lately, they are a company and any companies bottom line is to make money. Of course the GW guys are going to push for everyone to spend to money on a SR. If I ever play in a tourny I will flat out refuse to play the list if they are running a SR without a BA codex. I have already hand games off to ppl because of stuff like that. The last tourny I went to a kid was running inducted guard and SM in a GK list. I told him that he cant, that GW has redone his codex on line and took those options away from him. He was, of course, rude about it and I refused the game. His reasoning was that until GW puts it in a codex it isnt real. That reasonning should stand for this whole SR thing as well. I don't even know where to start with this... how is a company doing company business money grubbing whores? Depends on the store, but all my local stores (GW ones) are not telling people what they are for everyone... When you play art a tourney, you play by tourney rules, not GW or yours. If they were fine with his list, then man up, put your minis on the table and play against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 As much as I hate how GW has become a bunch of money grubbing whores lately, they are a company and any companies bottom line is to make money. Of course the GW guys are going to push for everyone to spend to money on a SR. If I ever play in a tourny I will flat out refuse to play the list if they are running a SR without a BA codex. I have already hand games off to ppl because of stuff like that. The last tourny I went to a kid was running inducted guard and SM in a GK list. I told him that he cant, that GW has redone his codex on line and took those options away from him. He was, of course, rude about it and I refused the game. His reasoning was that until GW puts it in a codex it isnt real. That reasonning should stand for this whole SR thing as well. I'll point out that if you have the actual Demonhunters codex and not the pdf on GW website you can still use inducted stuff. But if I recall correctly, it is illegal to use Inducted guard and marines in the same force and no inducted marines and grey knights in the same force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Anyone can use whatever they want in a friendly game if it's agreed upon... a friend of mine fields his Khorne Berzerkers alongside his Blood Pact Traitor Guard because we think it's a cool idea. That doesn't mean it's legal, it's a houserule. Just like running a Stormraven alongside an Imperial Guard, Eldar or Space Marine army right now. House rules rule! I like the sound of that, hmm Vulkan and eldar Firedragons and their Meltaguns?, plague marines as my troops and a monolith as my heavy. (or is that pushing it to far?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBaals Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 If GW is going the direction of fliers like we keep hearing tidbits about, then fine, SR for everyone. As a veteran of the AdobeDex days, it does kind of irk me a bit that Vanilla or Space Wolves would get it though. Sure we have our chapter specific units: Priests, Baals, fast tanks, dedicated transport Land Raiders, but I propose that we get Long Fangs in return! It's my personal feeling that the only benefit we have over wolves is our speed. They out-assault us, they out-shoot us. Ah well, can't do anything about it! Might as well be happy for them if it is true! Pretty shady that local stores are selling the Raven that way. Very car-salesman of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 As much as I hate how GW has become a bunch of money grubbing whores lately, they are a company and any companies bottom line is to make money. Of course the GW guys are going to push for everyone to spend to money on a SR. If I ever play in a tourny I will flat out refuse to play the list if they are running a SR without a BA codex. I have already hand games off to ppl because of stuff like that. The last tourny I went to a kid was running inducted guard and SM in a GK list. I told him that he cant, that GW has redone his codex on line and took those options away from him. He was, of course, rude about it and I refused the game. His reasoning was that until GW puts it in a codex it isnt real. That reasonning should stand for this whole SR thing as well. I'll point out that if you have the actual Demonhunters codex and not the pdf on GW website you can still use inducted stuff. But if I recall correctly, it is illegal to use Inducted guard and marines in the same force and no inducted marines and grey knights in the same force. You cannot use inducted Marines in a force with Grey Knights in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 My friends won't let me use an Ironclad instead of a Furioso, so no way will I be cool with them taking the Storm Raven. Your "friends" are not exactly of the most tolerant kind, are they? ;) Some of us like actually using a Codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 So i just got called an Ahole for refusing to play a salamanders army running an SR. I dont mind all SM getting it, what i do mind is the idea that i shoudl allow it "just because". Im going to cop flak for this, but IMo it unbalances the SM army - he was taking a ironclad and sterngaurd squad inside it (if anyone wants to know). Maybe i should have pushed for army wide twinlinks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vharing Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 As much as I hate how GW has become a bunch of money grubbing whores lately, they are a company and any companies bottom line is to make money. Of course the GW guys are going to push for everyone to spend to money on a SR. If I ever play in a tourny I will flat out refuse to play the list if they are running a SR without a BA codex. I have already hand games off to ppl because of stuff like that. The last tourny I went to a kid was running inducted guard and SM in a GK list. I told him that he cant, that GW has redone his codex on line and took those options away from him. He was, of course, rude about it and I refused the game. His reasoning was that until GW puts it in a codex it isnt real. That reasonning should stand for this whole SR thing as well. I'll point out that if you have the actual Demonhunters codex and not the pdf on GW website you can still use inducted stuff. But if I recall correctly, it is illegal to use Inducted guard and marines in the same force and no inducted marines and grey knights in the same force. Our club plays with the most recent rules out there. When I pointed it out to our tourny organizer, he hadnt realized that the guy had done that. Two other Gk player had the errata and were trying to set the kid right as well. If you know the errata is there and yet you dont use it because it will ruin your army, that seems pretty shady to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 GW did put something specifically on their website to say that the PDF didn't "override" the printed version, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazehana Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 So i just got called an Ahole for refusing to play a salamanders army running an SR. I dont mind all SM getting it, what i do mind is the idea that i shoudl allow it "just because". Im going to cop flak for this, but IMo it unbalances the SM army - he was taking a ironclad and sterngaurd squad inside it (if anyone wants to know). Maybe i should have pushed for army wide twinlinks? Right, I forgot that Sternguard were absent from the Blood Angels Codex and the Furioso isn't a fine replacement for the Ironclad. How dare he use the same exact/similar options in it as you! I don't see how it imbalances a regular SM army at all. They can put 5 point cheaper TH/SS Termis in it, or an Ironclad, or non-scoring Assault Squads... What can they really do that the Blood Angels can't do just as well, if not better, with the Storm Raven? As it stands the BA can load in WS5 Death Company, Librarian Dreadnoughts, scoring Assault Squads, Sanguinary Guard... And have this all lead by their awesome Reclusiarch HQ. Regular Space Marines would only really plop their slightly cheaper Terminators, overpriced Vanguard, or Sternguard in it, with a Dreadnought - and BA has better Dreads to choose, can use Sternguard in the same exact fashion for the same exact cost, and have better assault units to choose from. Honestly, the reason I, as a C: SM Player, want it in my codex is because it makes no sense to me how the Blood Angels, with their strained ties with the Mechanicum as filthy STC Thieves, get to test-run tech for the Mechanicum instead of a more trusted Chapter. On top of that, the Blood Angels already have Reclusiarch, Chaplains as Elites, Apothecaries as Elites, Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, special Dreadnoughts, Librarian Dreadnoughts, super-fast vehicles, more diverse weapon options for Preds, and Deep Striking Land Raiders. They don't really need the Storm Raven to feel "Blood Angel"-y. They were different enough before they had it, spreading it around won't take from their flavour. Beyond that, it's not like the lightning-fast flier that drops Space Marines is really out of place in the armoury of standard Chapters; it fits them perfectly as well, even if BA use it better. That said, it's a 200pt minimum model priced at 60+ bucks that I can't find a use for in my army. I'm not going to use it. but I propose that we get Long Fangs in return! It's my personal feeling that the only benefit we have over wolves is our speed. They out-assault us, they out-shoot us. I play C: SM. We all want Long Fangs, trust me. We also want the prices you pay for your Devastator Squads. As it stands I'm paying more for my Devs than a BA player, and shooting at less targets than a SW player - who's also paying less than me. Where's the justice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I didnt mean it was unbalanced because of his load out. I hope SM do get the SR, i run an ultras army and would like the option (though i wouldnt take it). Also, i assume that the BA are running the Sr without AdMech support, so there actually manufacturing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Also, i assume that the BA are running the Sr without AdMech support, so there actually manufacturing them. There is nothing to indicate this. In fact, the Codex says exactly the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAJake Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 My friends won't let me use an Ironclad instead of a Furioso, so no way will I be cool with them taking the Storm Raven. Damn right. If Other SM chapters get our shiny new SR then give us some effing thunderfire cannons.. If any of you guys have listened to the latest 40k radio podcast it talks about GW having a 4% decrease in sales this year. It is obvious why they would sell it to other SM chapters, but still.. doesnt make it right. If they were smart they would have a price drop instead of increasing it every other year. Cheaper models would get alot more younger people playing.. It's kinda lame how 85% of players with big/multiple armies are 30+years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Blayse Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 It seems that the main fluff for the SR comes from the Mechancius. It only mentions BA and possibly GK to have access, but they are planning mass production. If you read over the section, it actually suggest others would get it later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Also, i assume that the BA are running the Sr without AdMech support, so there actually manufacturing them. There is nothing to indicate this. In fact, the Codex says exactly the opposite. I only offered this as alternative fluff, not official. I personally have no idea why we get it and others dont - fluff wise - and neither do i particularily care as long as we have another exclusive unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Till Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 So i just got called an Ahole for refusing to play a salamanders army running an SR. I dont mind all SM getting it, what i do mind is the idea that i shoudl allow it "just because". Im going to cop flak for this, but IMo it unbalances the SM army - he was taking a ironclad and sterngaurd squad inside it (if anyone wants to know). Maybe i should have pushed for army wide twinlinks? I would do the same. Not because I loath the idea of having to share a unit, but because its against the rules. The SR is not in the vanilla codex nor is there an official notice saying it counts like it is. If I get pulled over for speeding doing 10 mph over I don't try to explain to the cop I was being safe. Rules are rules no matter how much we think we're in the right. If GW wanted everyone using the SR, there would be a notification saying so. If this notification gets posted tomorrow saying the SR is allowed for all I'll defend vanilla players who field it, but not before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Honestly, the reason I, as a C: SM Player, want it in my codex is because it makes no sense to me how the Blood Angels, with their strained ties with the Mechanicum as filthy STC Thieves, get to test-run tech for the Mechanicum instead of a more trusted Chapter. On top of that, the Blood Angels already have Reclusiarch, Chaplains as Elites, Apothecaries as Elites, Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, special Dreadnoughts, Librarian Dreadnoughts, super-fast vehicles, more diverse weapon options for Preds, and Deep Striking Land Raiders. They don't really need the Storm Raven to feel "Blood Angel"-y. They were different enough before they had it, spreading it around won't take from their flavour. Beyond that, it's not like the lightning-fast flier that drops Space Marines is really out of place in the armoury of standard Chapters; it fits them perfectly as well, even if BA use it better. It doesn't make sense to you because you are using fluff as justification to ignore the fact that GW balanced the usefulness of the SR within the BA codex without regard for how other SM chapters could use it. Lets give GW time to work out potential balance issues before we toss all caution to the wind. Second, the more differences between the codecies the better. Instead of giving other SM chapters a Stormraven how about they give them something else? The BA wouldn't be losing all of their flavor, but you are certainly whittling it away. To actively advocate for chapters to become more homogenized strikes me as damaging to all of 40k. I know that you want to play with all the toys, but lets think of the good of the overall game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isryion Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 How dare he use the same exact/similar options in it as you! I don't see how it imbalances a regular SM army at all. They can put 5 point cheaper TH/SS Termis in it, or an Ironclad, or non-scoring Assault Squads... What can they really do that the Blood Angels can't do just as well, if not better, with the Storm Raven? As it stands the BA can load in WS5 Death Company, Librarian Dreadnoughts, scoring Assault Squads, Sanguinary Guard... And have this all lead by their awesome Reclusiarch HQ. Regular Space Marines would only really plop their slightly cheaper Terminators, overpriced Vanguard, or Sternguard in it, with a Dreadnought - and BA has better Dreads to choose, can use Sternguard in the same exact fashion for the same exact cost, and have better assault units to choose from. Honestly, the reason I, as a C: SM Player, want it in my codex is because it makes no sense to me how the Blood Angels, with their strained ties with the Mechanicum as filthy STC Thieves, get to test-run tech for the Mechanicum instead of a more trusted Chapter. On top of that, the Blood Angels already have Reclusiarch, Chaplains as Elites, Apothecaries as Elites, Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, special Dreadnoughts, Librarian Dreadnoughts, super-fast vehicles, more diverse weapon options for Preds, and Deep Striking Land Raiders. They don't really need the Storm Raven to feel "Blood Angel"-y. They were different enough before they had it, spreading it around won't take from their flavour. Beyond that, it's not like the lightning-fast flier that drops Space Marines is really out of place in the armoury of standard Chapters; it fits them perfectly as well, even if BA use it better. Because it's a different Codex, maybe....? I mean, can BA players start requesting access to things that are in Codex Space Marines, including their list of special characters for counts as purposes? Complain all you want about the new BA Codex and how it actually makes them a different army than C:SM, similar to the way SW are different, too. It's exactly the same argument that I saw users of the BA PDF making, though they weren't really considering mixing and matching from their codex with others. All that said, I probably wouldn't mind if one of my friends who plays C:SM, DA, or any other marine army except space wolves, wants to use a stormraven. At the same time, I wouldn't expect to be called names if I requested that someone follow the codex, nor would I call someone names who told me they'd prefer if I stick to my codex. I'm assuming everyone will end up with the stormraven, but it is a bit unfortunate the way GW releases new rules in codex form every few years, so some will have to wait, rather than units at a time but there you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAJake Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 If a notification gets posted tomorrow saying the SR is allowed for all I'll defend vanilla players who field it, but not before. Can any real Blood Angels Player think otherwize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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