pate Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I find a bit concerning that GW-store employees are selling the SR this way. Not that I'm surprised. I once witnessed a gw-person selling 100€ of stuff to a guy that started out wanting to buy a tactical squad. "you'll need this, oh and that, and this is awesome!" crappy advice it was too and clearly just aimed at selling as much as possible, anywho back on topic. If GW would have wanted it to be available to all marine armies they would have made it clear that this was the case. I haven't read the WD article but from what I understand the rules are the exact same rules as in the BA-codex? Which means that skis of blood are included, which refers to BA specific rules. This to me seems like pretty big hint towards that it's not available for all sm-chapters. because it's (due to the SR rules) so bloody obvious it was probably overlooked, or ignored because it didn't seem necessary, to put in a notification about it being BA-exclusive. But why would they print the rules in WD anywho sine it's already in the codex? Do they usually do this for new models, models that already has rules? I'm against it, not because I want the SR for myself but because, like some bloke said before me, "it's the rules", and this just seems like salesmen that have found a way of exploiting the article. Everybody wants it, and presented with an opportunity they'll sell it, no matter how shady. They'll probably make it an house rule if GW would announce that it's BA-exclusive until said differently, just to sell more Storm Ravens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boopmaster9000 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 So i just got called an Ahole for refusing to play a salamanders army running an SR. I dont mind all SM getting it, what i do mind is the idea that i shoudl allow it "just because". Im going to cop flak for this, but IMo it unbalances the SM army - he was taking a ironclad and sterngaurd squad inside it (if anyone wants to know). Maybe i should have pushed for army wide twinlinks? I would do the same. Not because I loath the idea of having to share a unit, but because its against the rules. The SR is not in the vanilla codex nor is there an official notice saying it counts like it is. If I get pulled over for speeding doing 10 mph over I don't try to explain to the cop I was being safe. Rules are rules no matter how much we think we're in the right. If GW wanted everyone using the SR, there would be a notification saying so. If this notification gets posted tomorrow saying the SR is allowed for all I'll defend vanilla players who field it, but not before. ^+1 We have a rule book, and codices that we as Warhammer 40k players have agreed to play upon. GW governs these printed mediums, and just like amending a constitution or a bill, GW will do so and publish through their channels their official ruling. As many have said these rules maybe set aside depending on the domain and local (groups of people and places), some maybe more sympathetic in allowing another players take a unit not otherwise stated in the rules. There is no point bickering under the foundation of these rules if taking a Storm Chicken is allowed under rumored future intentions; it's like asking if I'm allowed to start hunting an endangered species under the pretense that the animal will recover from the endangered list in the future regardless of where that source of information/evidence is from. Another point to opine: if indeed people really want the SR, wouldn't it make much more economical sense to buy the model WHEN the official ruling actually comes out instead of solely based on speculation? Heck, I'm sure if GW saw a small sales figure on the chickens from just the BA player base they'd be more inclined to make them a Marine wide option. Just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I wouldn't mind anyone using a Stormraven in their lists. The rules aren't very good for the points, so it makes for an easier game for me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malus the Destroyer Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I am utterly against the Codex chapters using this in any shape, way, or form. Not until GW publishes it for you. How many times have you told to Dark Angels to suck it up with their out of date codex when the new 5th ed Marine book dropped? Reap what you sow. I hope they release it for Grey Knights, Black Templars, and Dark Angels exclusively. No codex adherant chapters added to the OFFICIAL rules for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabgoi Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Well, I was off for a bit due to real life commitments, but glad to see this is isolated and not standard. I am really happy I do not actually play at that GW store. But actually before I went into the military, when I shopped at the GW in Gurnee, Illinois they were great. Sure I got talked into buying things outside of what I was playing, but not really to my detriment. I went in one time to spend $100 US on BA stuff and got talked into Chaos instead. But that was an issue of the manager selling em the $260 US chaos army set for $100 US. Which is how I ended up with a Chaos Army, how do you beat almost two thirds off? Another 20 bucks and some green stuff and I hit 2000 points easy. This just seemed fishy, glad to see I was not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 quote: 'Isryion' All that said, I probably wouldn't mind if one of my friends who plays C:SM, DA, or any other marine army except space wolves, wants to use a stormraven. At the same time, I wouldn't expect to be called names if I requested that someone follow the codex, nor would I call someone names who told me they'd prefer if I stick to my codex. So you dont mind All marines to use the stormraven but than you say that spacewolves may not use it? I would just say stick with entries in youre codex only and dont take anything from other dexes in regular games. You want to use that dex fine, but also suffer the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 It is totally immoral for GWS employees to sell a product when they obviously are not aware of whether it will be legally playable to other SM chapters, but are going out of their way to lie to make the sale. Its the equivalent of trying to sell thunderwolf cavalry to blood angels players because there is a 'rumour' we will get them in a WD release. Employees who make sales this way should be fired. It doesn't matter if they are making 'good money', its just an unacceptable way to make sales. Its also pretty sad that people are allowing others to use units not from their own codexes, but thats a personal choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isryion Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 quote: 'Isryion' All that said, I probably wouldn't mind if one of my friends who plays C:SM, DA, or any other marine army except space wolves, wants to use a stormraven. At the same time, I wouldn't expect to be called names if I requested that someone follow the codex, nor would I call someone names who told me they'd prefer if I stick to my codex. So you dont mind All marines to use the stormraven but than you say that spacewolves may not use it? I would just say stick with entries in youre codex only and dont take anything from other dexes in regular games. You want to use that dex fine, but also suffer the consequences. Heh, guess I should have said any variation thereof as there weren't many other codices left! Sorry for the poor wording, but imo The Space Wolves are a divergent enough chapter that have enough differences in both fluff and rules. I could see it being a bigger balance issue as well, and that maybe they'd even end up with something different from it in their next codex. Though, for other reasons mentioned above, I wouldn't be surprised either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Devlonir Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 To me, personally, if it looks like a GW employee is just saying it to make the sale, it usually is. Do not forget that telling this to a customer means they will buy both a €50,- kit and a White Dwarf to get the actual rules for it. That is a pretty neat sale that is made very easilly because the kit itself is a lovely thing. What I mostly focus on is the lack of any other chapters being shown in any of the official GW stuff, and with official I don't mean their franchise stores. The website mentions BA and GK only, the codex mentions BA and GK only, the kit and bits says BA and GK only and the only painted SR's they show are BA and GK only. I will call out anyone who comes with a SR as a house rule until GW itself, and not it's franchise stores, gives an official words others are allowed to use it. And seeing it's a house rule it is both such that I need to agree to play against it that way and that it should not be allowed on tournaments. Simple as that.. want to play a Stormraven right now without using the BA Codex, you better make sure your opponent agrees and don't dare whine when your opponent only wants to play BRB and Codex rules with you and therefore doesn't allow you the Stormraven. PS. I find it funny this same discussion didn't happen with the Furioso and Libby Dreads.. those are, game wise, even better kits than the SR by a long shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Anyone can use the Dread kits and just make sure they are kitted out with WYSIWYG for their codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isryion Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Anyone can use the Dread kits and just make sure they are kitted out with WYSIWYG for their codex. I think he meant that "gamewise" their rules are better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meltaface Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 If someone came up to me with a stormraven I would probably use space wolves rules with my tacticals and get hestan for TL/mastercraft.. Or I could just not play the guy. Kinda funny with the "stormraven rage" going on.. I can't remember the last time people got this crazy and started demanding to be able to pick units from different books. But why would they print the rules in WD anywho sine it's already in the codex? Do they usually do this for new models, models that already has rules? They've done this before with new models. Guess its there to show others how they work and what they cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 They should have realised the possible confusion and put a clear statement as to the purpose. I mean, even clearer than it being on a page called "Blood Angels Design Notes" and not saying that you can use in other armies :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Nah since they are in the WD I guess I can have some Tau fire warriors and DE warriors( I think it was them) and a Balrog and a Elf Dragon rider guy since they have had rules in WDs I think they would be perfectly fluffy for my armyz because I said so and made this awsomeness fluff to justifie it and houseruled it in my garage.<Sarcasm/> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 If someone came up to me with a stormraven I would probably use space wolves rules with my tacticals and get hestan for TL/mastercraft.. Ironically, if you tried that, you'd get kicked out of my old LGS for being "unsportsmanlike and uncivil." There's a reason it's my -old- LGS. Back on topic, why is everyone saying this is symptomatic of GW? It really isn't. There's no longer a GW around us, yet the LGS store owners are the ones doing this. If it was just one or two LGS, I'd be willing to assume it's owners just tapping in to the want of an SR. However, (again, around here, in northeast U.S.) it's -every- store owner that allows/rules that the SR can be used by other Marines, not just one or two. That's the only thing that's really got my suspicions up. If it were isolated cases, I'd be willing to say they're gouging for profit. However, I just talked with my ex out in Boston, I guess the LGS there are also doing it. It seems almost organized in the unanimity; someone may very well be organizing something behind the scenes. Either that, or it's all in my head. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcatus Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Awesome. I hope someone in my area decides to use a Stormraven in a non-BA army. Tit-for-tat. If they want to use it, I'll use my Shadowsword. It's not in my Codex either, but I'm pretty sure all BA armies would have one IRL. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 If someone came up to me with a stormraven I would probably use space wolves rules with my tacticals and get hestan for TL/mastercraft.. Ironically, if you tried that, you'd get kicked out of my old LGS for being "unsportsmanlike and uncivil." There's a reason it's my -old- LGS. Back on topic, why is everyone saying this is symptomatic of GW? It really isn't. There's no longer a GW around us, yet the LGS store owners are the ones doing this. If it was just one or two LGS, I'd be willing to assume it's owners just tapping in to the want of an SR. However, (again, around here, in northeast U.S.) it's -every- store owner that allows/rules that the SR can be used by other Marines, not just one or two. That's the only thing that's really got my suspicions up. If it were isolated cases, I'd be willing to say they're gouging for profit. However, I just talked with my ex out in Boston, I guess the LGS there are also doing it. It seems almost organized in the unanimity; someone may very well be organizing something behind the scenes. Either that, or it's all in my head. :lol: If I recall correctly, we don't live all that far apart, but I haven't seen a store yet that is opening up the Raven to everyone (though at least 1 local store to me probably is but for many reasons I never set foot in that store). Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe I haven't checked out enough stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Dunno I have heard about allot of stores painting them in other lamer chapters colours Mine is doing theirs in the GK Scheme and have asked if mine would like to holiday at the Store once its done They Know it will be Plastered in FT logos hmm and the More I look at the Dorsal vent and turret the more I like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 If I recall correctly, we don't live all that far apart, but I haven't seen a store yet that is opening up the Raven to everyone (though at least 1 local store to me probably is but for many reasons I never set foot in that store). Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe I haven't checked out enough stores. Aye, we're not that far apart, and I've never been in the Albany area. It smells funny. :lol: But seriously... Maybe it is just a regional thing, and I'm hitting all the spots that are allowing it. It'd be just my luck to end up hitting every store from here to Boston that allows the SR to other marines, but miss the hundreds of stores that don't allow it. Maybe I should just stop my research and take up chainsaw-juggling-with-face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 My friends won't let me use an Ironclad instead of a Furioso, so no way will I be cool with them taking the Storm Raven. Your "friends" are not exactly of the most tolerant kind, are they? :lol: So, you'd be tolerant of me rocking up to a game with Thunderwolves as my alien auxiliaries for my Tau army? I'm just curious, because my space communists could sure do with some... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummingBerserker21 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 While I don't approve of any other Marines using the Stormraven at the moment, if Games Workshop was to allow other Chapters to use it I really wouldn't mind with one exception-Space Wolves. In reading the fluff they prefer keeping their feet on the ground (hence why Skyclaws are seen as such oddballs) and to me getting a skimmer would be both against the fluff and overpowered on top of their already undercosted codex. I do say this with a little bit of a grudge over the Wolves' "screw jumpers" powers and "screw your librarians/pyschers" abilities (wolf talisman, runic armour, runic weapon, etc.). I don't see the big deal about Codex Marines getting it, and as I view Dark Angels as pretty much codex I wouldn't have a problem with them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I think that a 0-1 limitation is enough, and that the SR only gets spread to other chapters after their codex is updated. So, no WD-treatment, but a real codex entry. Should keep all those guys quiet and at the same time wouldn't overpower those lists which are already seen as overpowered. I agree with DrummingBerserker that the Wolves should not get a SR at all. Their codex is already powerful enough, and the SR is not fluffy in their lists-(nor in their codex). Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72challenger Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Thats it My berserkers are using it when my bloodknighs arnt and, Well shoot maybe my tau crisis suits could use it. that be cool. Like a manta I think. Suits dropping out the back. Im only jokeing about the tau but, If it the traitor marines have storm birds and thunderhawks why not stormraven. I wonder what people will say if I show up to gw with my beserkers and ravens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Thats it My berserkers are using it when my bloodknighs arnt and, Well shoot maybe my tau crisis suits could use it. that be cool. Like a manta I think. Suits dropping out the back. go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 tbh im not all that impressed with the thing, they can have it....in apocalypse :P we werent demanding for thunderwolves or whatever....or c'tan...or a deathleaper etc....why do all space marines suddenly HAVE to own this thing? fairly simple imho, not in your codex? tough lucky buddy... someone is running a DIY chapter with the BA codex for counts as? sure go ahead, its in the BA codex. but using a unit from a different codex? just no.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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