Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 why do all space marines suddenly HAVE to own this thing? What good reason is there to restrict it to the Blood Angels and Grey Knights? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Priest Haelaeif Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Seeing how I consider even codex-hopping a damnable sin, I really do not even begin to comprehend how anyone could honestly suggest using a unit that is not in their codex outside of apocalypse games. Using the SR in a C:SM army is no different to using Ork Nobz in an IG army. How can anyone even argue for that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Using the SR in a C:SM army is no different to using Ork Nobz in an IG army. How can anyone even argue for that? Only reason I can think of is "Counts As" Land Raider.. With appropriately modeled weapons systems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 what good reason is there to restrict: S6 power weapons, artificer armour, land speeder storms, thunderfire cannons, techmarines as hq's etc etc etc to codex space marines? :) every codex gets its own unique units. fact that ours (apparently) is shinier and thus EVERY codex should have it.... is, to put it mildly. bull:cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 what good reason is there to restrict: S6 power weapons, artificer armour, land speeder storms, thunderfire cannons, techmarines as hq's etc etc etc to codex space marines? :) every codex gets its own unique units. fact that ours (apparently) is shinier and thus EVERY codex should have it.... is, to put it mildly. bull:cuss Like a lamb to the slaughter... :) The Crusader was a nice unique unit for the Templars, until it wasn't... The Baal Predator, now with other weapons system options, is unqiue so are Sanguinary Guard and the other gubbins. There should be unique stuff.. But something like the Stormraven should not be, there is no simple reason for it to be so beyond "Well it's our unqiue thing.." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 what good reason is there to restrict: S6 power weapons, artificer armour, land speeder storms, thunderfire cannons, techmarines as hq's etc etc etc to codex space marines? :) every codex gets its own unique units. fact that ours (apparently) is shinier and thus EVERY codex should have it.... is, to put it mildly. bull:cuss Like a lamb to the slaughter... :) The Crusader was a nice unique unit for the Templars, until it wasn't... The Baal Predator, now with other weapons system options, is unqiue so are Sanguinary Guard and the other gubbins. There should be unique stuff.. But something like the Stormraven should not be, there is no simple reason for it to be so beyond "Well it's our unqiue thing.." so your saying others should get it "because" :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 what good reason is there to restrict: S6 power weapons, artificer armour, land speeder storms, thunderfire cannons, techmarines as hq's etc etc etc to codex space marines? :) every codex gets its own unique units. fact that ours (apparently) is shinier and thus EVERY codex should have it.... is, to put it mildly. bull:cuss Like a lamb to the slaughter... :) The Crusader was a nice unique unit for the Templars, until it wasn't... The Baal Predator, now with other weapons system options, is unqiue so are Sanguinary Guard and the other gubbins. There should be unique stuff.. But something like the Stormraven should not be, there is no simple reason for it to be so beyond "Well it's our unqiue thing.." so your saying others should get it "because" :) Nope, I'm saying that unless there is an irrefutable reason why they shouldn't then they should. Uniqueness as a reason is shennanigans at work.. Blood Angels have plenty of unique things, like other Codices do, but again the Crusader went from BT only did it not? Also, why have two such disperate Chapters as the BA and grey Knights? Makes little sense to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I don't think anyone should use it except those armies that have it listed in their codex. At the moment the ONLY army that can claim that is BA. Even the GK's who will be getting it, are still operating under the 3rd ed/pdf dex which doesn't include it. Everyone wants the stormraven because we can't have freaking Thunderhawks outside of apocalypse. The damn thunderhawk is deeply embedded into all marine fluff. This is as close as you are going to get to a THawk in a normal game of 40k. Hence everyone's desire to have access to it. As for Space Wolves not getting it because we fight with our feet on the ground is kind of crap. How do we make it from Fenris to whatever planet our services are needed? Oh yea.. that big ass flying spaceship. So how do we get to planet's surface from the big ole FLYING spaceship? Oh yea.. THUNDERHAWKS AND DROP PODS. We still have all the regular access to Landspeeders which use anti grav tech to fly. Even in 3rd edition we could drop our bikes and pick up jump packs for our blood claws. As I said before, the stormraven is a thunderhawk light. Spacewolves have never had any restrictions against using their thunderhawks. So do I think all chapters should get it? Yes. It fits with the idea of space marine rapid insertion and being the front line troops. Do I think people should be using it now? NOPE. Only BA. But this is just my 2 cents and purely my opinion, which anyone and everyone is welcome to disagree with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Priest Haelaeif Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 So do I think all chapters should get it? Yes. It fits with the idea of space marine rapid insertion and being the front line troops. Do I think people should be using it now? NOPE. Only BA. But this is just my 2 cents and purely my opinion, which anyone and everyone is welcome to disagree with. +1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 but again the Crusader went from BT only did it not? *sigh* why does this keep coming up? It was never a unique BT thing, it was made as a unit that BTs had more of, but was always from the get go a 0-1 restriction. Yes the restriction was later removed, but that happened at a similar time to when Black Templars got a bunch of other stuff anyhow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 what good reason is there to restrict: S6 power weapons, artificer armour, land speeder storms, thunderfire cannons, techmarines as hq's etc etc etc to codex space marines? :) every codex gets its own unique units. fact that ours (apparently) is shinier and thus EVERY codex should have it.... is, to put it mildly. bull:cuss Like a lamb to the slaughter... :) The Crusader was a nice unique unit for the Templars, until it wasn't... The Baal Predator, now with other weapons system options, is unqiue so are Sanguinary Guard and the other gubbins. There should be unique stuff.. But something like the Stormraven should not be, there is no simple reason for it to be so beyond "Well it's our unqiue thing.." so your saying others should get it "because" :) Nope, I'm saying that unless there is an irrefutable reason why they shouldn't then they should. Uniqueness as a reason is shennanigans at work.. Blood Angels have plenty of unique things, like other Codices do, but again the Crusader went from BT only did it not? Also, why have two such disperate Chapters as the BA and grey Knights? Makes little sense to me. i still fail to see your logic tbh. blood angels are renowned for beeing great artisans yet our captains cant take artificer armour yet every random chapter y can? same goes for relic blades. tbh i see no reason why blood angels shouldnt have it. the strength bonus from FC is negated since relic blades "hit at S6" meaning you dont use your own strength, its just S6, period. the only plusside FC still gives is the higher initiative, in the turn you charged... seems like an odd reason to deny us a piece of wargear yet here we are...we dont have it. calling unique as a defense "shennanigans" irks me abit as well tbh. there are lots of great units/wargear options/spychic powers in other codexi that we blood angels cant use. the codex specificly states only the blood angels and the grey knights use it. if you dont accept that as an reason why other chapters shouldnt have it then i dont know WHAT will convince you. and tbh its highly feasible GW will faq/errata or just include it in the new vanilla codex. tbh theres nothing we can do about it (if it happens) but until that time its blood angels and grey knights only. my opinion at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 but again the Crusader went from BT only did it not? *sigh* why does this keep coming up? It was never a unique BT thing, it was made as a unit that BTs had more of, but was always from the get go a 0-1 restriction. Yes the restriction was later removed, but that happened at a similar time to when Black Templars got a bunch of other stuff anyhow. The point still holds, other forces were not free to take it as they chose.. Whereas there isn't even this functionality for the Stormraven. And the fact that that is your only point of contention is also rather telling. As for the dramtic "sigh" you realise this is the internet, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 We all know Stormraven is going to be released to all Marines eventually. The design notes in the White Dwarf said as much. The issue here is people using a single unit from a Codex that isn't their own, which doesn't sit as kosher to a lot of us. I'm not sure how I feel about it myself, I guess I can see both sides of it. I guess I'm cool with it being used to "try it out" as the other armies wait for the rules that let them actually do it. But on a regular basis I start getting iffier, and certainly no tournament should allow it. So as always it depends, I guess. I'm just saying, counts-as using a single complete army list is one thing, picking and choosing units from whatever army lists you want is another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 look Juarez dont get me wrong here. i see your point on the crusader. just see this point about mine: GW implemented it in some way or another before people could legally do it. as it stands, they havent made an faq, wrote an errata or said in some article that youd be allowed to do have one (at 0-1 restriction or otherwise) in your codex army. like others said its like bringing genestealers to a tau army, its taking a unit from another codex. fact that both armies in this case are space marines is null. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I'm all for keeping the 'raven BA only at the moment beacause of Codex inclusion.. But I just don't think that should continue forever, which is what I've seen alot of posts saying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 im actually on the same boat. space marines beeing what they are, the blood not sharing this with their fellow chapters seems....wrong. but then again there are so many fluffy things in our codex that seem off. (like hugging necrons anyone? :wub: ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I'm all for keeping the 'raven BA only at the moment beacause of Codex inclusion.. But I just don't think that should continue forever, which is what I've seen alot of posts saying. i'm not for or against it going anywhere else. I don't really care if the Ultramarines get one, doesn't change my army... my only caveat, if it's not in your dex, or whatnot, then no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 (like hugging necrons anyone? :wub: ) It's actually the only way to defeat them.. With "love". Remember, shoot them and they may just get back up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Because our chapters are not known for hogging things that other don't get? I can see this ending up like the wolves Bitching about Frost weapons and getting them magically added via FAQ and well we are up :wub: creek since there are less BA players than Every Marine player who wants OUR things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Because our chapters are not known for hogging things that other don't get? I can see this ending up like the wolves Bitching about Frost weapons and getting them magically added via FAQ and well we are up :wub: creek since there are less BA players than Every Marine player who wants OUR things. You do realise how ironic btiching about bitching is? In fact, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.. You complain they want it when it's "yours". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebsolom Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 To quote part of the Stormraven codex entry - "...but the Blood Angels refuse to cede their mastery of the heavens to any foe, even for a moment." Just deal with it! No doubt it will be available to other chapters eventually (after all the whingers have repeatedly moaned about it :wub: ) so until that time BA only.! On a side note, when they get round to updating the DA & BT will you all be wanting their unique equipment too? May as well do away with all unique chapters and just have Codex Magnolia Marines :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Because our chapters are not known for hogging things that other don't get? I can see this ending up like the wolves Bitching about Frost .... weapons and getting them magically added via FAQ and well we are up :wub: creek since there are less BA players than Every Marine player who wants OUR things. You do realise how ironic btiching about bitching is? In fact, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.. You complain they want it when it's "yours". who cares what anyone wants:) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 On a side note, when they get round to updating the DA & BT will you all be wanting their unique equipment too? May as well do away with all unique chapters and just have Codex Magnolia Marines :wub: See, I don't recall whining.. I recall considered reasons - especially as I have no interest in the unit or ever using it. The point is that very little of the uniqueness of each Codex - in my opinion - should be in the unit (SCs as an exception obviously) and should be more about the rules. Because our chapters are not known for hogging things that other don't get? I can see this ending up like the wolves Bitching about Frost .... weapons and getting them magically added via FAQ and well we are up :) creek since there are less BA players than Every Marine player who wants OUR things. You do realise how ironic btiching about bitching is? In fact, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.. You complain they want it when it's "yours". who cares what anyone wants:) Which is a point, but people do care.. And in the case of the non-BA players it's this attitude of "It's ours, you can't have it.." without a logical reason behind it that is annoying*. *Not in terms of "in the Codex" but whether it should be distritbuted to all Codices. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I play a lot of online RPGs (not to be confused with things like WoW) Sorry, bad habbit of that is 'emoting' the way I see it is thus: It's not in any codex but blood angels right now, so for now, if a marine player wants to use one, he/she can ask, and I'll decide, there's no 'debating' it, it really is as simple as that, and every other blood angel around the world holds that very same right. That isn't to say that I would say no, infact, if a player asked first, I'd probably say yes in most cases (unless I knew said player to be a horrible power gamer anyway). When Grey Knights come out, and they get it too, they'll no longer need to ask. if/when space marines get an update, grey knights get an update or whatever else. They wont need to ask. But till then, they will. There doesn't need to be a logic behind it, as a few have said already. thems the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Which is a point, but people do care.. And in the case of the non-BA players it's this attitude of "It's ours, you can't have it.." without a logical reason behind it that is annoying*.*Not in terms of "in the Codex" but whether it should be distritbuted to all Codices. Oh I know:) It's not "ours and you can't have it" it's If and when you get rules for it, you can use it... not till then... people seam to forget that they keep each codex separate... as much as people want to think, all SM are the same, when ones rules update, they dont' all update, when one get something new, they don't all get something new.. you have to wait for the codex... So it might, but i dont' see why everyone is up in arms to have it NOW NOW NOW... is there a logical fluff reason? doesn't matter... when the next SM codex comes out we'll see... but i don't think every SM army should automatically get the SR just because they released a kit for it... (sure didn't see a lot of people clamoring for it when the codex came out last year)... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221659-apparently-stormravens-for-all/page/5/#findComment-2650701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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