Shasosyro Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 what good reason is there to restrict: S6 power weapons, artificer armour, land speeder storms, thunderfire cannons, techmarines as hq's etc etc etc to codex space marines? :huh: every codex gets its own unique units. fact that ours (apparently) is shinier and thus EVERY codex should have it.... is, to put it mildly. bull:cuss My sentiments exactly. As soon as I get to use some of these, I'll be happy share the Stormraven. Yes, there's no reason that other chapters wouldn't have this vehicle, but there's no reason the Blood Angels would be unable to get a hold of some of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 There should be unique stuff.. But something like the Stormraven should not be, there is no simple reason for it to be so beyond "Well it's our unqiue thing.." The fact is that 40k is a better game when the armies are more diverse. You want to lessen that diversity, seemingly for only 1 reason: "I want that toy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Next they'll Want Elite Apothecaries which give FnP and FC :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 And our Blender fists and a S and T 6 Libby and Libby Dreds and DC and Sang guard and we are not allowed these things due to them not getting them..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Next they'll Want Elite Apothecaries which give FnP and FC :huh: But why shouldn't they have them. There isn't a single reason other than you don't want to share. I mean BA should have things that are unique but (insert unit X here) shouldn't be be one of them. Your attitude that (unit X) are yours and other shouldn't have them is annoying. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Next they'll Want Elite Apothecaries which give FnP and FC :P But why shouldn't they have them. There isn't a single reason other than you don't want to share. Because the reason we get Furious Charge and Feel No Pain is because our apothecaries have the blood of our Primarch himself with them, and that's very inspiring, especially to us, given our connection with his blood. There is a fluff reason for every single special rule. Sanguinary Priests are perhaps the most unique thing in the Codex with the most justification for their rule — I'd sooner give up Baal Predators than Sanguinary Priests. Or even Red Thirst, which isn't even that good of a rule. But the SanPriests are a perfect representation of the Blood Angels character in table-top rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Next they'll Want Elite Apothecaries which give FnP and FC B) There is a difference between wanting a vercile, which would logically make sense considering all marines are shock troopers, and wanting a importent aspect of BA culture. While BA may make more extenstive use of a stormraven, it seems rather illogical that they have exclusive rights considering all marines belong to the same faction. As for the Priests, I don't want them and most people don't want them. The furthest I have seen is a debate over whether a wolf priest should grant it. Diversity is hard for none power armour users to understand since there are essencally 6 different power armour codexes, many of them having debateable claims to uniqueness. Prior to the individal codex releases, I can see why BA and DA could have easily been put under Codex Marines, since the units themselves are largely the same, assualt troops were not a troops choice prior to this codex and the main truely unique unit was Death Company. Personally, I would not mind several codexes being condensed down, as the advertisement is currently making it a one horse race, and it is a sad day when loyalist fight loyalist constantly. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Diversity is hard for none power armour users to understand since there are essencally 6 different power armour codexes, many of them having debateable claims to uniqueness. Prior to the individal codex releases, I can see why BA and DA could have easily been put under Codex Marines We've been separate since 2nd Edition. assualt troops were not a troops choice prior to this codex Yes they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Diversity is hard for none power armour users to understand since there are essencally 6 different power armour codexes, many of them having debateable claims to uniqueness. Prior to the individal codex releases, I can see why BA and DA could have easily been put under Codex Marines, since the units themselves are largely the same, assualt troops were not a troops choice prior to this codex and the main truely unique unit was Death Company. Personally, I would not mind several codexes being condensed down, as the advertisement is currently making it a one horse race, and it is a sad day when loyalist fight loyalist constantly. XD You could have one marine codex, many people (mostly those that don't play any of the marine codex) would like it. Yes there wasnt' a lot of diversity, but that changes, now there is quite a bit. (assult troops were troops in the last codex FYI) and we had the Baal pred and Furioso Dread and Jump pack Vetrans and honor guard... I don't understand this "one horse race" mentality, yea, lots of people play marines, thankfully there are diffrent types of marines, because other wise you wold be faceing a lot of the same marines... and unlike what a lot of xenos players think, there IS divercity, yea the basic troop is about the same, but how many BA players are playing DOA lists, vs how many Vanilia players are taking some same list... i dont' think putting out less marine codexes will change the number of marine players... the best way to stop having loyalists fight loyalists all the time is to not play loyalists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Ultramarines using the Stormraven huh? What does the codex astartes say about using stormravens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDante Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 This is not new. Valkyries, Wave serpents, devil fish, emulators, etc. are great units but exclusive. I want d6 S8 AP1 every turn! Some could argue it is not right that only sisters have them. I understand the desire to have all the most powerful stuff in one dex to beat face of an opponent but that's just being greedy. Anyone who argues that is unfair to keep the SR exclusive should start a writing campaign to GW requiring them to address your grievances. When that doesn't work play Grey Knights! This debate/rant reminds me of the tantrum I threw when my brother got a 10 speed bike for xmas and I got a BMX. I was 6 years old and knew for sure a 10 speeds is better than 1 speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillen Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Ok here is my take as a 40 year gamer who has played for ever. WHO CARES! You know they will sell it to everyone. Just like they did with the Crusader. Cause a niche list is not going to make the sells. Just can't. Your not big enough compared to the marine comunity as a whole. So they will likely allow everyone to have one which is FINE! Cause we were pretty much promised a Thunderhawk gunship, and that fell through, so now we have the blood chicken of doom!!!!! It's a model. Basicly a toy we put together our selves and paint, and then pay them for the right to do so. And your bent out of shape cause a few people want to buy the new toy and try it out? If you want to be anal and not play someone, by all means do so. In the big picture it will mean nothing. Just one less game for you. So who cares. Or you could realise this is exactly like the Cusader and accept it and enjoy. For a time you can have 3 heavy slots used. While the others get 1. So relax. lol It's a game and a hobby. And soon enough everyone will be using them anyways. Well, not me. Well, not yet. But might get one next month. Just depends. It sorta looks like pooh. Not attractive at all. Still the rules for them make them awesome. So relax and have fun. Try not to be so anal. Enjoy the moment and accept it's going to happen. Be happy you have something awesome from you codex others find so interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fancy Pants Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 There are two outcomes to this... 1) The BA/ GK keep the SR exclusively - If this happens, GW would be following the "Fluff". 2) All Space Marine chapters get the SR - If this happens, GW can sell a $66 dollar model to every SM player. Given GW's track record, what do you think is more likely to occur? I can't remember a single time GW put Fluff > Profit. LFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund Himself Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 You took our Land Raider Crusaders :cuss Not the best position to argue from... If it was the Baal Predator or the Sanguinary Priests, I'd agree with you but the Stormraven is far more generic. And remember, it's a game of toy soldiers in the end :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Everyone, lets watch the language in here. There is no need to refer to weapons as sexual objects (that has been removed so no need to go looking for what I'm referencing). Lets just be civil or this thread will follow the path of previous Stormraven threads. Personally I think Lord Fancy Pants is right. GW will amend the fluff and hand this out to every loyal marine, but for a time its just ours (officially) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillen Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Fluff means nothing. You know that. And a buisness is about buisness. So why are you upset? Do you just have to have this model for you alone. Is it that important that you can not accept that this will spread to other chapters. Blood Angels are ae evey other chapter in a way. You need supplies to keep moving. With a successful trial run on this transport, the Machanicus will want one to study. Other chapters will want to barter for one or 2 as well. It's like saying the Mississippi Air national gaurd has a new helicopter, and nno one else in the states will get it. Just silly. They will share the design. Pass it along. Just like the Black Templars and the Crusader. And people will buy the models and GW will make more stuff. This is good. Capitolism at work. People get stuff they want, People have jobs making it, and investors make money back. It's a WIN WIN WIN for us. You want to bitch about fluff? We were the Space Wolves AAAAAAWWWWRRRRRROOOOOOOOO!! And we were, well marines like everyone else, but hey we had a cool name. And then We had a codex. And it was cool, but more or less like every other codex. And then suddenly. We were scared to teleport. I mean unless the whole force was Drop Podding then we teleported fine. Oh wait Now we can't teleport at all. Why? Um fluff? Um no bull!!! Yet I play Space Wolves. Evern thou they sorta gimp us here and there. It happens. Your mad cause they will release a model to all chapters eventually. Why? It's just a model and as I said before an ugly one to boot. The stats are over powered a bit but it's been beat with an ugly stick. Relax people and enjoy it. It's a new model (something rare from GW) and will add a new flavor to the game for a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 And lo! The heavens opened, the land hath split, and the seas roil with darkness. The end is nigh. I actually agree with the esteemed Mister Juarez and fully support all his views for once. And now how many people will think that the above is a line from a religion's holy text? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 There are two outcomes to this... 1) The BA/ GK keep the SR exclusively - If this happens, GW would be following the "Fluff". 2) All Space Marine chapters get the SR - If this happens, GW can sell a $66 dollar model to every SM player. Given GW's track record, what do you think is more likely to occur? I can't remember a single time GW put Fluff > Profit. LFP This is a false dichotomy. It's called a retcon. Just like we now suddenly have Azkaellon and the Sanguinary Guard, which have been around since the Horus Heresy, they can update the fluff so that everyone is using the Stormraven. There isn't anything in the fluff of the Stormraven that says only Blood Angels use it. It's "new" — roughly five hundred years or so — but it's new to Blood Angels too. The Stormraven was developed, tested, and produced by the AdMech, and then given to "the armies of Mankind." If all Space Marines get the 'raven — which the White Dwarf Design Notes say they will — it's because ~500 years ago the AdMech gave it to them at the same time they gave it to the Blood Angels. There's no record of other Space Marine Chapters using it — but there wasn't any record of the Blood Angels using it, or of the Sanguinary Guard, or of Astorath. Until suddenly there were. The next Codex Space Marines will have the Stormraven in it, and fluff about how it's been used by the Space Marines in the past just like Codex Blood Angels did. There is no fluff vs. profit struggle involved. The decision to give the Stormraven to all Space Marine players was, apparently, decided before Codex Blood Angels even came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillen Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Exactly. And the game goes on. As it has for 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sac_ld Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I won't deny that the model will eventually be released for other chapters but just to point out an example: WD USA #360 contains the rules for Space Marines Legion of the Damned. tells you the points costs for the unit and everything just like it looks in the C:SM. It did not suddenly let other Chapters suddenly get accesses to them. Even though the current fluff for them would rightfully justify them showing up to aid any chapter not just the ones presented in C:SM. So I mean until they give an official update to it. I think that people should just be content with what they have in their codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I'm more annoyed at not having Relic Blades and Artificer Armour as an upgrade for HQs and VGV than I am over other chapters getting the StormPigeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 There are two outcomes to this... 1) The BA/ GK keep the SR exclusively - If this happens, GW would be following the "Fluff". 2) All Space Marine chapters get the SR - If this happens, GW can sell a $66 dollar model to every SM player. Given GW's track record, what do you think is more likely to occur? I can't remember a single time GW put Fluff > Profit. LFP You are right there are only 2 outcomes: 1) They give everyone the SR - if this happens people spend $66. 2) They keep it exclusive to BA/GK - If this happens people spend hundreds of dollars puting together whole new GK or BA armies. Don't be so sure that GW doesn't maximize their profit by keeping it exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 But you'd probably have a lot fewer people starting a new army. I think the ratio would be sufficient for the amount spend by people buying Stormravens would exceed the amount spent by people making new armies if they kept it exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Don't be so sure that GW doesn't maximize their profit by keeping it exclusive. The White Dwarf Design Notes say "We've been wanting to design a model for a Space Marine flyer for a while now, and Blood Angels finally gave us an excuse." We are the testbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isryion Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 For those of you who think BA want the Stormraven to be exclusive to BA and GK forever, I I think you're missing the point. Most people don't seem to be saying that. Most simply say that they don't want to see it used in a codex that it isn't in. Whether or not you allow it in friendly games is really up to you and your opponent. I will say that not one of my friends, a lot of of whom play space marines, have even considered taking something that is not in their codex just like I wouldn't consider taking Land Speeder Storms, Relic Blades, etc... I'd prefer that they come up with something else, or a variation for other codices tailored more to their army, but I'm ok if they end up giving it as is, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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