Legion Rising

[Warpedpath]

When i saw an update on this thread i actually said "Ahh yes" out loud

Awesome work

Exaclty what i did 5 seconds ago... awesome work and you let it look that simple!

[Subtle Discord]

Thanks, as always, for the kind words and encouraging feedback. Due to the juggle that is life this poor thread was quite dormant, and my studio work slowed to a crawl, but it's all been fitful slumber. The Basement Troll was finally able to reclaim the studio and get it back into working order. For the time being, I'll be focusing more on building than writing; I want all the time I can manage to focus on making some of these ideas real. I want to return to more instructional articles later, but for now the time is better spent and posts will be more concentrated on showing what is on my workbench.

 

So, to those who are following my work, don't worry if the Legion goes quiet for a while, we are forever working in the background. I'm positive you'll like what I'm coming up with.

 

Also, to anyone who has sent a personal message with no reply in the last while, I apologize for my silence and will make every effort to send some messages out in the next few days. I have a few to send, a couple of wrongs to right, and some great work to get building and showing. Ok, time to add an update with a bit of meat on the bone.

 

So, to blather a bit and answer a few questions, yes the Descimator is stock and in a rather 'safe' pose. It's just such a badass miniature that stands so well on its own, it didn't seem necessary to go over-the-top with it. It's arms are magnetized and it's half held together with poster-tack in those pictures, so there is room for change, and the weapons are whatever I want. I do plan to convert and scratch-build the Butcher Cannons and Conversion Beamer. The Storm laser also needs some minor tweaking. Forge World use the FineCast method for most of the weapons, and they are far too rubbery. Not to mention I want to make them more... Chaos. The Storm Eagle... I'll talk a bit about it later. For now, let's have a look at what the Forge has been working on...

 

Over 650 rivets later, the Chaos/Traitor Predator Armour Kit is almost ready for the RTV rubber.

 

I really wanted to have this kit done at the beginning of the year. Progress was going well, but with the amount of work, and the crunch on my time, it just wasn't going to happen. With some good solid bench time recently it's finally done now, and it was worth every rivet. This is going to look excellent beside the Land Raider.

 

All of the sponson and turret weapons are each covered with their own custom armour plates. Options are good... m'kay?

 

Since I could not use any GW plastic in this build I was given the opportunity (Read: forced) to scratch build the sponson weapon links. Normally I just build on to the provided bits in the GW Predator kit, but I want my kit to be complete, so I had to fabricate my own. I designed them to accept two magnets that also act as a post that locks the parts together. The weapons and optics turn together as they should, thanks to square magnets. I also took the opportunity to improve the seat for the optics bit, giving it a proper bracket to lock onto. Since I can't actually mount the magnets in the parts, I can't show them attached to the model until I have some cast in resin.

 

There are a few sizable components here, but it's all the smaller bits that made this humble collection of parts more work than expected. It was all worth it in the end.

 

With this kit, and especially with its changes to the turret, I am really impressed with just how much the Predator's lines and silhouette are different from the stock model. It's still a Predator, but really feels like a completely exotic pattern from some arcane forge world. It's amazing what a little extra slope on the turret and lots of extra raw bulk can do. There's certainly no questioning that it's a heavy variant.

 

Next up, I've got my eye on a Vindicator kit that's been calling to me. Compared to the Predator, with its turret and sponsons (and all of their fiddly extra bits) the Vindicator should be a much more straightforward build. I'm thinking of a completely scratch (and very Chaos) Siege Shied, something to change/upgrade the Demolisher Cannon, and a smattering of the necessary armour plates and riveted banding.

 

Alongside the Vindicator I'll be moving on with the Chaos Storm Eagle build. That kit is much larger and more ambitious than anything I've done to date. It’s going to take some time, but I really want to see it a reality, so it's seriously on the bench. At first, I had planned on only doing an exterior detail kit, but I just can't skimp on it if I'm going to do it. I've got a few new tools in the studio, with a few other bits on the way. Mixed up with some interesting ideas and I think I've got some great stuff brewing and the Eagle is just the start.

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
+++ Image Data-link ∙ Repair +++

[Brother Heinrich]

Holy :cuss . Edited June 29, 2013 by Bryan Blaire
Dodging swear filter using an asterisk is against B&C rules

[Subtle Discord]

Heh... I've been known to illicit that kind of reaction. Thanks.

[eetdestroyer]

Good to have you back in action \m/

[Ch@oZ]

Awesome work, as always. I presume the vindicator siege shield will have a distinct cow-catcher look to it? 

Edited June 28, 2013 by Ch@oZ

[carnosaur93]

heh, i cant help but think that you have gotten to that point where you have so many new armor panels to add to your rhino chassis' that you might aswell consider replacing the ugly-by-comparison original rhino parts underneath with replacements of your scratch-building and superior designs :P

 

...would save you alot of money, too

[Subtle Discord]

Right now, the Vindicator is just images and ideas being whispered into my mind from the warp; I'm not exactly sure where it's going to go just yet. While it is a Rhino chassis, the kit changes the shape of the Rhino considerably, so the entire pattern will need to be unique. However, it does get me thinking; since I will be doing a 'Dozer Blade and/or Siege Shield, now might be a good time to resurrect the Land Raider 'Dozer Blade idea. Maybe a few different Blades, Rams, and Grills to compliment the entire line. It will mean I need to fabricate more hardware, but a few extra bits could open the door to attaching unique 'Dozer Blades to anything.

 

*Subtle's mind starts to wander, thinking of ways to make a proper Destroyer Blades kit...* Derrr-huh? Oh sorry about that. Where was I?

 

You also bring up an interesting point carnosaur93, and I think it's worth talking about. First, scratch building is not cost effective. Ever since I started to pay more attention to build time, I'm amazed how much labour actually goes into a kit. It's all about the details; adding detail to armour plates and some hardware is one thing, but adding all the little details that make an entire tank kit a proper tank (tracks, wheels/suspension, optics, vents, internal computers, doors, hinges, ducts, wires, panels, etc., etc., etc.) takes it to the next level of labour. Even with resin casting, a one person studio like mine might have a hard time making the investment back. That also brings me to an actual design philosophy...

 

I don't want to directly replace/compete with any GW kit or product; I intentionally want to use an official kit as the base if I can. This saves me time, letting me avoid all of the detailing mentioned above; but this also keeps the kit 'official' since under it all it's still a GW model. I won't say there isn't some grey area; the Storm Eagle is a good example. But in those cases I still use a GW kit as a base and try to make my kit vastly different than what might be on offer. Does Forge World offer a Storm Eagle kit? Yes. But they don't offer a 'proper' Chaos/Traitor Storm Eagle that will look anything like my final build. I want to offer kits inspired by the look/feel of the Warhammer 40,000 universe that directly enhance what GW has on offer, or something that is completely overlooked by GW at the time.

 

All that said, I do have one idea that sorta' breaks this rule; I want to build the 'missing link' between the Rhino/Predator and the Land Raider. Inspired by the old Clouseau Rhino design; an armoured vehicle larger than a Rhino chassis but smaller than a Land Raider chassis. The tricky part is getting the right blend of the two kits to create something reasonably unique. Since the vehicle doesn't actually exist it shouldn't step on any GW toes, and I think it might just appeal to people who build true-scale armies; for anyone else, it would just be a fluff piece. But again, the overall idea is great and I can see a general shape take form; it's thinking of all of the small detailing that makes me have a mild stroke. For now, I'll take the GW models and make them more than what they are from the outside.

 

EDIT: Grrrr... never mind. I've just seen the pictures of Forge World's new 'Legion Tank' and I'm shocked that they read my mind and got a good idea of what my vision was. Now why did they have to go and do that?

Edited June 28, 2013 by Subtle Discord

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Fantastic stuff, will I ever be able to purchase some of your kits?

[disease]

^^^ what he said. Do want!  sign me up for purchasing...everything!

[the damned artificer]

Great stuff as always, this is one of my favourite scratch building threads :D

 

And reading your post on the missing link you wanted to do would have resulted in a link to a picture, had you not yourself found out about the new FW tank :P Sometimes those pesky GW psykers just ruins everything by stealing ideas like that :D

[Subtle Discord]

I actually remembered to snap a few pictures as I set up some parts for mould-making. I figured someone might like to see how I create two-part moulds for more complex objects.

 

∙ I've found it's best to elevate objects on a block of plasticine. This suspends the objects deep within the RTV rubber, and lets me control the mould lines.

 

At this point, wherever the plasticine touches the object, a mould line is created. Keeping that in mind, if you take the time to shape the plasticine well, you can control and minimize mould lines. I purposely avoid details and hide them as much as possible; clean work at this point takes extra time and effort, but it's worth it in my opinion. The shape also acts as a large key for the mould, helping lock the halves very tightly. There is never any mould slip with my process.

 

∙ Just like a flat split mould, once the rubber is poured and cured the plasticine is exposed and removed in preparation for the second half of the mould.

 

It's essential to do a cleanup of the parts locked in the RTV rubber at this point. Now is the time you can make small adjustments to the mould with careful razor cuts and a set of needle-tipped tweezers. Once the clean-up is done, the mould wall is built up, injection vents are added to the top and bottom of the mould, and it is ready for the second half to be poured. From this angle, you can really see how I take care to have the mould line run along an easy-to-clean edge of the armour plate.

 

Taking the time and effort to build a more complex two-part mould like this is well worth it when you also consider that it also extends the life of the mould. When the part is removed, half of the mould is pulled out from inside the part, and the other half of the mould can be splayed open, making it very easy to free the part without damaging the mould. Win-win! Less chance to damage the mould and less chance to warp the new part.

 

As always I don't take any chances with getting parts that deform; I make my moulds thick so they can easily support themselves no boxing or clamping is required. It takes a little extra rubber, but not enough to outweigh the benefits of nice thick moulds.

 

∙ The very first casts from the first two moulds of the Chaos/Traitor Predator Armour Kit. Seeing a part cast for the first time is always satisfying.

∙ After a little bit of cleanup, a test fit shows everything is looking good. Finally, a solid piece of plastic that isn't fragile!

 

The second set of moulds is already in the pressure chamber and will be ready for their first casting run later tonight. I have three more moulds to make to round out the kit, so it will be a few more days before total completion.

 

Finally, for those interested in acquiring some of my kits, I'm looking into a simple web-store option outside of eBay, and I think I've found a good solution. By the time this kit is done I should have something set up.

 

Thanks, as always, for the encouragement that keeps me motivated to make these ideas real.

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
+++ Image Data-link ∙ Repair +++

[YoungWolf7]

Seriously jealous of that setup. Having made molds in the past I know just how hard that is to get right. It appears you have it down to a science. I will be in line with cash waving at some point. :)

[Subtle Discord]

As usual, thank you. The funny thing about my setup is that it's not really that elaborate. Beyond the general scratch building supplies and tools (which I advise you stock up slowly over time) the three major components are a solid compressor, a pressure chamber, and the mould-making materials with resin. If you stop to consider the cost of putting together a medium to large (or beyond) army, setting up a modest cast-it-yourself nook in a gaming cave is very achievable. My logic; rather than invest in a second army, put the money towards tools to make my favourite army really unique and blatantly Chaos.

 

Sooo... I'm almost done getting the moulds ready for the Traitor Predator Armour Kit (working on the last one right now) and I have enough done to give a good look at how it's turning out. First up, a closer look at the sponsons...

 

∙ The sponson links are designed to work with 1/8" x 1/8" x 1/16" neodymium magnets, which are more than strong enough for the task.

 

Normally I work in metric with metric tools, but magnets are the exception. When I first started to use Rare Earth magnets, getting them in metric sizes was all but impossible. Even now, the size and shape selection for metric neodymium magnets is nothing compared to imperial dimensions. Variety is good. I'm tempted to add the needed magnets as part of the final kit, but it will increase the final cost. Maybe make it an option?

 

This kit only magnetizes the sponsons, leaving the turret to the builder to choose the if/how to magnetize it.

 

∙ I can finally see the light at the end of (this) tunnel; Just one more mould and this kit will be ready for production.

 

 

Unfortunately, a few tiny flaws did creep into the moulds, but considering the complexity of the entire build, they are quite acceptable. A tiny bit of sanding and filing easily solves those issues. Beyond that, I am 100% happy with how this build turned out.

 

Next up for a proper Chaos makeover, the Vindicator.

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
+++ Image Data-link ∙ Repair +++

[Jay Taint]

You, Sir, are a great artist.  Your creativity and determination are inspiration to many of us!  May many of us buy your kits. 

[Subtle Discord]

Funny thing, I've cast several Rhino Trim Kits, but I have yet to actually use one. My first trimmed Rhinos were made before I was resin casting; In fact, they were a first inspiration for all of my builds. Since I already have several Rhinos built I didn't really need to build another, but my newest Rhino Trim Kit deserved some proper photos. Oh well, twist my rubber arm...

 

∙ I was worried these kits might be really hard to attach to the base model: But it just takes a bit of care, and don't use too much superglue.

 

It's as simple as using super glue to tack a center point (I use a center point, not a corner, to make sure the part is straight and aligned as I get started) and then working your way along the piece. The resin parts are really strong despite how thin they are, so it's easy to bend them back, add some glue (not very much!), and press the piece into place. I keep a soft toothbrush around to scrub away any glue excess. If you do happen to use a bit too much the brush can smear the glue away, if you scrub quickly. It's not always perfect, but it usually gets most or all of any excess glue. Just a little cleanup with a file and/or a sanding stick, and it's clean. It's pictured here without any greenstuff gap filling along the corner edges; It looks pretty good even without it.

 

∙ Annnnd... the Predator Armour Kit is completely done... finally!

 

So, with these kits getting finished, it seems as good a time as any to set up some kind of shop. It's a clean straightforward setup and my selection is modest, but the plan is to keep it growing slowly. Have a look in my signature for a link to The Dark Works, if you are so inclined. I've still got a few more things I need to finish up, but they're mostly cosmetic.

 

Thanks as always, to everyone, for the positive feedback and encouragement that has fueled this modest offering from my fledgeling studio. I hope it's just the start.

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
+++ Image Data-link ∙ Repair +++

[RolandTHTG]

both are looking good. I'm tempted to get a predator, just so  I can make it look that awesome.

[Nevetz]

Everything is

 

soooooooooooooooooooo

 

coooooooooooooooooool.

[Brother Ambroz]

Very tempting to buy these.....going to get one at least but not sure which to choose...

[Subtle Discord]

A quick late-night update to show a sneak peak of what I've been working on the last while.

 

∙ Ammo Drums, Smoke Launchers, and Search Lights, oh my!

 

These still have a few more details to be finished (mostly rivets) but they'll be done soon. I'm trying to keep everything modular and magnet-ready. Yep, options and flexibility are good.

 

I've got a few other bits-and-pieces to go along with these, and I'll show them all off more when I can talk in length about my plans for these new kits. I think I might have a building article to the mix as well, but that's for another post; right now bed ways is right ways.

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
+++ Image Data-link ∙ Repair +++

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Incredible, as always. I LOVE those drum mags and the chaos star spotlight.

[Subtle Discord]

When I started my recent small builds I knew one of them was going to be a Searchlight, and I wanted it to have a curved surface for the lens. When it comes to producing several consistent curved shapes the first thing that comes to my mind is Vacuum Forming. This process is used in all sorts of manufacturing, packaging being one of the most prolific. You know that clear plastic package that keeps your precious new object safe, even from you, as you struggle to open it to get at your prize? That is made with Vacuum-formed plastic.

This process can be elaborate, using large equipment to shrink heated plastic sheets over complex shapes and forms, but it can also be done on a much smaller scale that almost anyone can make use of for hobby projects. If all you want to do is make some small objects or shapes, then it is a very straightforward process.


∙ A selection of simple objects can easily be made into a vacuum-forming tool with just a bit of effort.

1) A plastic tub from a local Dollar Store. Any box or chamber with rigid sides and a nice flat bottom will do, really. It just needs to be large enough for your needs, and have enough structure to have some modifications added. Remember that you're going to apply as much suction as you can, so this box needs to be reasonably stiff. On a related side note: If you get a bin/box with a locking lid you can use it to store all the parts for this contraption when it's not being used.

2) These two white frames are made from a sliding screen frame purchased from a Hardware store and trimmed down to the size that fits my purpose. An inexpensive sliding screen gives you all the material you need to build several frames if you need/want different sizes for different projects. Try to find a screen that uses metal corner brackets to assemble the frame; they will hold up better to the temperatures you'll be working at. The ones pictured here are plastic which is not ideal, but I find they hold up just fine if it's all you can find.

3) Black Butterfly Clips are used to clamp the frames together around the plastic sheets that will be vacuum-formed. A little more on this later.

4) Foam Weather Stripping Tape (again, from the Hardware Store) is used to create a gasket seal for the frames. It's this seal that lets the vacuum do its work, pulling the soft plastic over the object you're replicating. Don't skimp on this seal; buy the more expensive, high-density foam product. (just squeeze the tape through the package to tell the difference) This seal will be exposed to high temperatures, and the cheaper Foam Tape will melt and turn to slag.

5) A look inside the box to show how it was assembled; I used an adhesive called Goop Household to glue the parts together and create a solid seal. It doesn't need to be that pretty, just get the job done. The 'grill' that lets the vacuum do its thing is made from a section of an old computer case door; any stiff grill with lots of holes will work just fine, whether you make it yourself or source it from somewhere. Finally, a connector was added so that a standard household vacuum can be connected to the entire contraption. Any vacuum cleaner will do, but the stronger the suction, the better the results.

6) The white frames work well as a jig to cut out sheet Styrene plastic to the required size.

7) As mentioned earlier, the black Butterfly Clips are used to clamp the sheet of Styrene plastic in place between the two metal frames. Notice how the Butterfly clips are perfect for the job because you can remove the silver handles once they are in place, so they don't get in the way.


∙ Once you have the Styrene sheet clamped, it's ready to be heated and formed. Preheat your oven to 325°F-to-400°F.

1) Since the heated plastic will droop considerably it needs to be suspended to keep it from touching anything. I've used four heavy glasses that can take the considerable amount of heat that is involved and placed them on a baking sheet. Remember that these glasses will hold this heat for quite some time after you're done forming plastic; take care handling them after you are done.

2) With the Styrene suspended place it all in the oven and wait for the heat to do its thing. Lighter plastic (1mm thick) will work well with 325°F-to-350°F, but heavier plastic (1.5mm+) might need a higher 375°F-to-400°F temperature. Learning just what temperature works best is not an exact science and something you'll need to experiment with.

It should go without saying that you will need some form of gloves to protect your hands while working with the heated plastic in the following steps.

After about 2 minutes the Styrene will start to sag; the trick to get the best results is to wait for it to sag twice, as it were. I'll try to explain: The plastic will start to sag (and it's tempting to try to form it with this 'first sag' - be patient) and then it will actually tighten back up ever-so-slightly, before starting a 'second sag' that indicates that the plastic is ready for forming. once it's at this point, turn on your vacuum and get ready to quickly move the plastic...


∙ 1) In my case, all I wanted was to replicate these dome-shaped metal disks in Styrene plastic, which is much easier to work with than metal.

2) As mentioned, quickly (and carefully!) take the Plastic Frame from the oven and lower it straight down over the Grill in one swift motion; press it firmly into the Foam Tape Gasket to create a seal, and the suction will instantly pull the plastic down and form it around any object sitting on the Grill. I did a few sheets with some other objects (washers, for example) so I will have a good supply of these shapes in the future.

3) Here is the final part in use, giving the Searchlight a nice curved surface. I can see myself using these bits for all sorts of things; radar dishes, large optics, vehicle hatches, loud speakers, etc.. The process is only limited by the size of the box you want to make and the size of your oven. It could easily be used to make anything from clear canopies for cockpits to curved armor panels for vehicles to a thousand other things in between.


∙ And in closing, a little build work unrelated to the above article.

Left: The track links are almost ready for mould making; from there I'll cast and assemble them into the required lengths for final kits that fit their respective chassis. Right: Another build I have been struggling with; I want to make a vehicle mount Combi-Melta that makes use of the Combi-Bolter included on the Chaos Accessories sprew. I'm on the right track, but this first attempt is just too tall. Back to the drawing board, I guess.

Thanks as always, for reading. I hope some might find it informative. As usual, any comments, questions, or general musing are always welcome.

 

Edited February 9 by Subtle Discord
+++ Image Data-link ∙ Repair +++

[Zsoulless]

A Great Tutorial!

I must say your Blog is Treat. I find myself lurking around in here from time to time trying to dissect your work with my eyes. Im often just so awestruck by its cleanliness I forget to post my praises.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Zsoulless

[thamier]

hey subtle, are those rhino tracks as thick as the standard one? cause they look great, and next question, when are you adding them to the store?

[Subtle Discord]

Thanks, as usual guys. By all means lurk away; while I do appreciate feedback I understand totally that there's no need to say 'looks good' with every visit.

 

Yep, the tracks are very close to the same thickness. I haven't done the backs of them yet, so the Rhino tracks are sitting right on the cutting mat while the GW kit tracks are 'floating' over the mat. I'm hoping to have all of these bits (Searchlights, Dirge Casters, Smoke Launchers, and Tank Tracks) all ready for production at the same time, and soon.

 

While I want to offer them as stand-alone kits (and I will), my main plan is to add them to the current kits I have on offer while also doing an overall price adjustment. I respect that I'm asking a premium price for my kits. While some people understand the amount of labour and skill that goes into these, and are willing to pay that premium, I also respect that many people think they should be cheaper. There is a perception that since this is a small 1 person studio, I can somehow make these things quite cheap. I can understand why people might think this, but I can say first hand that it's not realistic.

 

That leaves me in a sticky spot; these are high quality elaborate kits that all take 5+ moulds to make and there's no simple way to produce them with less labour. (Not to mention all the work just to get them read to cast) I need to charge enough to make the investment worth my while, but I also need to find the right price point that gets the volume of sales that my small studio needs to grow. While I can't drastically lower my price without undermining the studio, I can increase the value of the kits with smaller parts that will take less labour to produce. So that's my plan.

 

In fact, on the subject of price, I'd welcome a discussion with anyone willing to offer their input; publicly or in private. The subject comes up every now-and-then and I've been tempted to ask what the community thinks; seeing that they are the people I'm trying to appeal to, it makes sense to me. It might be a little unorthodox, but maybe now is the time.