Legion Rising

[Khornestar]

More power to ya, SD!

[JeffTibbetts]

Oh my god. Yes. So much yes. I always knew you would have to take it in house but didn't have the heart to tell you to do that to your budget. HOWEVER, the rate at which you'll be able to prototype will be absolutely crucial. Not only will it enable incremental tweaks and innovations, resulting in a more consistent and achievable fit, it will (and this is the clincher) reduce or eliminate probably the biggest roadblock to your success. Not only is working with a 3rd-party printer a physical and financial roadblock, it's a major mental one. You had to be 'finished' with a design before you sent it off for printing, wait for it to come in, hope it's okay, and then try to fix the problems with it. It's not only a drag but surely it sapped the momentum that's so crucial on the types of projects you do. 

 

I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS! I also got kind of jazzed when I saw the rook in the pics. My son's name is Rook and I thought you were making them at first, so I was going to buy one for him. Haha! 

[Zauberpudding]

Very intersting. I too ahve been lookign trough resin pritners for months to find one that satsfies my quality requirements.

Would be good to know what technology you did choose to settle on in the end.

[TheOneTrueZon]

You have chosen wisely. 

 

Formlabs is an amazing company.

[Augustus b'Raass]

Anticipation intensifies.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/790/301/8c8.gif

[Subtle Discord]

Thanks as usual everyone for the encouragement. It's a bit nerve-wracking considering it's going to be a large investment for the studio, but every time I crunch the numbers the cost of this particular printer will be easier to offset than the costs to outsource the printing. There's a lot of competing printers out there and this one was a bit tricky to sus out of the heard, but I'm glad I did the research. More on that in a second...

 

Oh my god. Yes. So much yes. I always knew you would have to take it in house but didn't have the heart to tell you to do that to your budget. HOWEVER, the rate at which you'll be able to prototype will be absolutely crucial. Not only will it enable incremental tweaks and innovations, resulting in a more consistent and achievable fit, it will (and this is the clincher) reduce or eliminate probably the biggest roadblock to your success. Not only is working with a 3rd-party printer a physical and financial roadblock, it's a major mental one. You had to be 'finished' with a design before you sent it off for printing, wait for it to come in, hope it's okay, and then try to fix the problems with it. It's not only a drag but surely it sapped the momentum that's so crucial on the types of projects you do. 

 

I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS! I also got kind of jazzed when I saw the rook in the pics. My son's name is Rook and I thought you were making them at first, so I was going to buy one for him. Haha! 

Most of the printers that could get the results I was after were well outside of my budget. Deep down I knew I needed one but I just couldn't make the massive price tag work. This unit sacrifices build area for output quality and manages to do it at a fraction of the price point. it's going to make larger ideas trickier, but I already have many ideas that will fit no problem.

 

It's kinda' scary, you're hitting all the nails right on the heads; you're absolutely right that I'm a maker and the hands-on sort that needs/wants control over the process, and handing it off to someone is very counter-intuitive for my creative flow. It also forces me to need large batches of files ready when I'd rather work on things on a kit-by-kit basis; like you said, to refine and perfect it before moving on to the next kit. Also, having very particular quality expectations that appear to actually be hard to find in my area didn't help as I was forced to try and explain and hope that the production manager on the other end could find the right solution. Small-scale high-resolution 3D printing for miniature production is a bit more specialized then I first expected.

 

Right now it's a mix of eager anticipation combined with dread. I really think this printer can do what I want it to, but I suspect it's going to take a bit of work to get it dialed in and working to its fullest capabilities. I'm considering some crowdfunding but I want to know that I've got this final piece of the puzzle figured out before I add that kind of obligation.

 

Very intersting. I too ahve been lookign trough resin pritners for months to find one that satsfies my quality requirements.

Would be good to know what technology you did choose to settle on in the end.

You have chosen wisely. 

 

Formlabs is an amazing company.

Good guess, it was in the running, but it was not the Form 2 that I ended up choosing. The Form 2 appears to be an excellent workhorse SLA printer that is well suited for larger objects but the 140 microns XY resolution of the laser and the minimum 25 microns Z resolution limit how good it is on smaller scaled detailed objects. It has a rather large build area (145x145x175mm) which is very useful for many applications, but not when it comes to miniatures; if I was designing larger consumer goods, I'd want a Form 2 to make prototypes. I also considered the B9Creator with a 30 microns XY resolution, minimum 10 microns Z resolution, and a moderate build area (104x75x203mm), but the surface quality wasn't quite what I was hoping for; The B9 Core 530 produced the results I wanted but at twice the cost. There were a few others, but none worth really mentioning because they all fell around where the Form 2 is; very good all things considered, but not intended for the small scales I'm trying to achieve.

 

What I have settled on is the Solus, a resin DLP printer that boasts a 25 micron XY max resolution with a 48x27x80mm build volume, but it also can be set to a 41 micron XY resolution for an 80x45x80mm build volume. The Z resolution can be turned down to an astounding 5 microns with the right resin; yes, it can print with layers 5 microns thick! It's a small build area but that's what you have to sacrifice if you want this kind of resolution at any kind of realistic price point. The build area of the Solus will constrain me on some of my larger projects down the road, but most can be cut down into sub-assemblies for printing and assembled before mould making.

 

Precision and surface quality were my biggest concern during this research and there are quite a few other examples printed by the makers of the Solus and by end users that showcased absolutely amazing quality over-and-over. But I also appreciate the build quality, the ability to maintain or upgrade the projector and other design features such as the long-lasting resin tank. The only major hitch is that it does require a dedicated computer to operate, but again I kinda' prefer it that way because that means it's easy to replace and/or upgrade the computer running it at any time. If it's built into the printer like many brands, then you need to send it to the company should the computer have any issues; same goes for units with the projector/laser built in. Modular components that can be maintained and/or replaced relatively easy is a good thing to me.

[Augustus b'Raass]

FIVE MICRONS??? That's half the length of a single DNA chromosome! 

 

This makes me incredibly excited.

[JeffTibbetts]

FIVE MICRONS??? That's half the length of a single DNA chromosome! 

 

This makes me incredibly excited.

 

Wait, seriously? That's amazing. Who cares if it takes forever to print. Those would be insane results. 

[TheOneTrueZon]

Ooooo, I haven't even heard of that one. I saw the image of the Rook test piece and totally thought it was the one from Formlabs. I guess that STL file gets some mileage!

 

5 microns is insane, I can't wait to see the future prototypes!

[Paradogmatic]

Thanks as usual everyone for the encouragement. It's a bit nerve-wracking considering it's going to be a large investment for the studio, but every time I crunch the numbers the cost of this particular printer will be easier to offset than the costs to outsource the printing. There's a lot of competing printers out there and this one was a bit tricky to sus out of the heard, but I'm glad I did the research. More on that in a second...

 

Oh my god. Yes. So much yes. I always knew you would have to take it in house but didn't have the heart to tell you to do that to your budget. HOWEVER, the rate at which you'll be able to prototype will be absolutely crucial. Not only will it enable incremental tweaks and innovations, resulting in a more consistent and achievable fit, it will (and this is the clincher) reduce or eliminate probably the biggest roadblock to your success. Not only is working with a 3rd-party printer a physical and financial roadblock, it's a major mental one. You had to be 'finished' with a design before you sent it off for printing, wait for it to come in, hope it's okay, and then try to fix the problems with it. It's not only a drag but surely it sapped the momentum that's so crucial on the types of projects you do. 

 

I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS! I also got kind of jazzed when I saw the rook in the pics. My son's name is Rook and I thought you were making them at first, so I was going to buy one for him. Haha!

Most of the printers that could get the results I was after were well outside of my budget. Deep down I knew I needed one but I just couldn't make the massive price tag work. This unit sacrifices build area for output quality and manages to do it at a fraction of the price point. it's going to make larger ideas trickier, but I already have many ideas that will fit no problem.

 

It's kinda' scary, you're hitting all the nails right on the heads; you're absolutely right that I'm a maker and the hands-on sort that needs/wants control over the process, and handing it off to someone is very counter-intuitive for my creative flow. It also forces me to need large batches of files ready when I'd rather work on things on a kit-by-kit basis; like you said, to refine and perfect it before moving on to the next kit. Also, having very particular quality expectations that appear to actually be hard to find in my area didn't help as I was forced to try and explain and hope that the production manager on the other end could find the right solution. Small-scale high-resolution 3D printing for miniature production is a bit more specialized then I first expected.

 

Right now it's a mix of eager anticipation combined with dread. I really think this printer can do what I want it to, but I suspect it's going to take a bit of work to get it dialed in and working to its fullest capabilities. I'm considering some crowdfunding but I want to know that I've got this final piece of the puzzle figured out before I add that kind of obligation.

 

Very intersting. I too ahve been lookign trough resin pritners for months to find one that satsfies my quality requirements.

Would be good to know what technology you did choose to settle on in the end.

You have chosen wisely. 

 

Formlabs is an amazing company.

Good guess, it was in the running, but it was not the Form 2 that I ended up choosing. The Form 2 appears to be an excellent workhorse SLA printer that is well suited for larger objects but the 140 microns XY resolution of the laser and the minimum 25 microns Z resolution limit how good it is on smaller scaled detailed objects. It has a rather large build area (145x145x175mm) which is very useful for many applications, but not when it comes to miniatures; if I was designing larger consumer goods, I'd want a Form 2 to make prototypes. I also considered the B9Creator with a 30 microns XY resolution, minimum 10 microns Z resolution, and a moderate build area (104x75x203mm), but the surface quality wasn't quite what I was hoping for; The B9 Core 530 produced the results I wanted but at twice the cost. There were a few others, but none worth really mentioning because they all fell around where the Form 2 is; very good all things considered, but not intended for the small scales I'm trying to achieve.

 

What I have settled on is the Solus, a resin DLP printer that boasts a 25 micron XY max resolution with a 48x27x80mm build volume, but it also can be set to a 41 micron XY resolution for an 80x45x80mm build volume. The Z resolution can be turned down to an astounding 5 microns with the right resin; yes, it can print with layers 5 microns thick! It's a small build area but that's what you have to sacrifice if you want this kind of resolution at any kind of realistic price point. The build area of the Solus will constrain me on some of my larger projects down the road, but most can be cut down into sub-assemblies for printing and assembled before mould making.

 

Precision and surface quality were my biggest concern during this research and there are quite a few other examples printed by the makers of the Solus and by end users that showcased absolutely amazing quality over-and-over. But I also appreciate the build quality, the ability to maintain or upgrade the projector and other design features such as the long-lasting resin tank. The only major hitch is that it does require a dedicated computer to operate, but again I kinda' prefer it that way because that means it's easy to replace and/or upgrade the computer running it at any time. If it's built into the printer like many brands, then you need to send it to the company should the computer have any issues; same goes for units with the projector/laser built in. Modular components that can be maintained and/or replaced relatively easy is a good thing to me.

 

That's quite the spec sheet. I bought in on a Form1 years ago when they first kickstartered it -- then I got thrown way off on my plans to start doing more modeling and by the time I've come back to having hobby time the thing is severly EOL and lacking in support in regards to parts etc on the primary market. I need to dust it off and see what I can manage with it at this point if anything -- the Solus looks like a great product and their demo shots of items are seriously impressive. Good luck!

[Subtle Discord]

I've been keeping an eye on Additive Manufacturing for longer than 10 years and really seriously about 5-6 years ago just before entering college. At that point, the technology to get really good results were still unbelievably expensive and anything affordable wasn't nearly where I wanted it to be in terms of quality for my needs. One of the main barriers was the layer thickness (Read: the Z-axis resolution) that usually sits at ~25 microns for high-quality printers, even today. Honestly, even that is absolutely amazing and if I was working on practically anything larger it would be very serviceable. However, I was waiting for something that could do layers of 10-15 microns at high resolution since everything I had seen showed that to be the point where primer and paint can cover most surface imperfections left by the 3D printing process.
 
Then I found these print demonstration images...
 

That is an American quarter in the left image, to give you a sense of scale; if you get in and look really closely you can make out the layering, but it's so fine it might as well not be there.
 
I was skeptical of this image at first and continued to do more research looking at several other printers and trying to find high-quality close-up images to really examine the output of each offering. You need to be careful because each company will present their product in the best light possible so you need to really look for information from end users to temper the information they market. Formlabs has very solid marketing, not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's true; the real truth is in the prints. When I started finding actual professional jewelers talking about the printers and their output side-by-side I came back to the Solus and took a deeper look.
 


These images really are just the tip of the iceberg for what this printer can do. Some of the jewelry examples are jaw-dropping. Yes, that's a tiny pineapple roughly the size of an Imperial frag grenade.
 
The Solus is made and marketed to jewelers and model makers specifically since those industries have very particular demands for their 3D printers that most industries care less about. Most mainstream printers people know about are more general purpose, striking a balance between the size of the objects you can create and the quality of the output. The build area volume on these printers is so small that many/most people dismiss them because for their needs it's instantly not practical. Not so for those of us who need precision and quality at a really small scale.

 

Again, if you look closely you can see some layering but it's just so fine it simply doesn't matter. However, as mentioned, every time you cut the layer thickness in half you double the print time. In larger printers working in other industries the additional time isn't worth the tradeoff but with the size of objects that my studio wants to produce and the quality I'm demanding of the process I'm willing to accept the extra printing time, especially if it can produce results like this...

 

These are images of the Solus printing with a new grey resin that's in development to push the limits to the maximum. Once I'm proficient with the printer I hope this resin will be available to try.

 

Again, the quality at these small scales is just mind blowing and I am eagerly counting down until my unit arrives, in roughly 10-14 days. I have no doubt that there will be a learning curve to climb, so I'm trying to temper my anticipation with the fact that I've gots me some learnin' to do. I'm up to the challenge and I can't wait to finally get this last piece of the puzzle in place! This will seriously open the door for ideas that I was expecting to take much longer to put into production. I've still got quite the backlog of redesigns I want to get to first, but now it can really happen on my terms and I'm free to explore so many ideas going forward that I'm downright giddy.

 

Armour plates split, cracked, and curled out with tentacles/horns/teeth erupting from the fractures. Rot, corrosion, and corruption eating away at something that was once well maintained. Faces, hands, and limbs stretching out from surfaces grasping and gnashing at those who venture too close. Icons, symbols, and sigils subtly etched along trim details. Trophies, banners, and honours attached to hulls in memory of past campaigns. Filigree, calligraphy, scrollwork, knotwork, and any other elegant idea I can come up with. Any kit I make in several different versions to suit a range of builders themes. Pipes, hoses, chains, spikes, rivets, bolts, grills, trim, etc., etc., etc., oh my! There are so many ideas I can't even write them all down, my brain is literally swirling with the potential. This is going to be sooo good.

 

Trust that B&C will be the first place I show anything once everything is up-and-running. Soon. So very soon! *Maniacal laugh*

 

*Sigh* I need a damn stasis field so I don't have to endure the wait.

[Paradogmatic]

Those really are incredible and you're right -- when you're talking things that are measured in millimeters, what's a few extra hours of printing time when you avoid many more of sanding and cleanup, never mind having detail you previously couldn't even clean up the print lines on.

[Subtle Discord]

Exactly. It was the problem I'm having with the 3D printing that I can get produced in my city by a printing service. The quality is amazing really, but it's still used mostly by industries that are making larger prototypes or tradeshow models that can be sprayed with sandable primer, then sanded, smoothed, and refined, before being painted. That's just not an option for the components I want to produce; I'm 3D printing to avoid all that labour that scratch-building took, it's no good if it just shifts to sanding and smoothing surfaces.

 

You're also on point about the 'details that are hard/impossible to clean' perspective and it was something I was very aware of; some nooks-and-crannies are just impossible to sand or file no matter how hard you try and they need to be perfect or it's a no-go. I saw a few exchanges of jewelers talking about just this because when you cast jewelry no matter how nice the initial cast is it's always going to be polished, refined, and tumbled in steel shot and that can deal with layering in many cases. However, there were some jewelers who were doing such detailed work that they said even subtle lines in impossible to reach places was a problem and the Solus was able to produce surface quality so good that it dealt with the issue entirely.

[Lexington]

Subtle, just...hell, man. Never stop. This stuff is gonna be incredible.

[Marshal Rohr]

That new grey resin has incredible results. 

[Subtle Discord]

Subtle, just...hell, man. Never stop. This stuff is gonna be incredible.

Oh, I'm just getting started. Everything up to this point was just the warmup.

 

This hobby, in general, is something I doubt I'll ever give up. It's just got the right mix of creative, intellectual, social, and fun, while (for the most part) letting you unplug from everything digital for a while. People need hobbies, so it seems like a great fit for my skills and it's easy to say it's a muse that I have no problem accepting. I'm not going to dramatically change the world but I am going to help many people enjoy themselves in their chosen hobby and have fun doing it. That works for me and I can call it a noble pursuit. 

 

That new grey resin has incredible results.

I know, right? There are other images with the same resin and they're all stunning. Even the results with the red resin are amazing and the grey resin just does it one better.

 

Additionally, one of the other selling points on this printer is that it can use virtually any brand of resin from other companies and the printer settings can be adjusted to optimize for the resin. Some users are even mixing custom resin for unique applications. I'm not sure if I'll even need to do anything so ambitious but having the option is nice.

[Lexington]

You know, it just occurred to me - are you going to be using the printer for prototyping and masters, then doing traditional casts, or are you going to be selling direct prints? Imagine it's the former, but curious.

[Trixie]

Love the work you are doing with the Admech, the green weapon effect against the blue robes is so wrong that it's right. Seriously striking scheme and well executed brother.

[Marshal Rohr]

If the rumors of the new Adeptus Titanicus game being purely Titan oriented turn out to be true, I feel like that resin could rapidly prototype some ‘hyper-detailing’ pieces, like ground crew visible on a Titan carapace or alternate shoulder armor designs.

[Subtle Discord]

You know, it just occurred to me - are you going to be using the printer for prototyping and masters, then doing traditional casts, or are you going to be selling direct prints? Imagine it's the former, but curious.

I'm looking to create resin casting masters, hence the need to find a 3D printer that can achieve the best possible surface quality; the mould making process can replicate something as subtle as a fingerprint on a surface so the surfaces need to be near-perfect. That said, I'll need to see how strong the final prints are if I want to consider doing anything that is one-off prints. 3D printing is advancing quickly but it's still not really suited to be a final production process in many cases due to material costs (1L of printing resin can be over $150-200), running costs (the printers can be temperamental), and material characteristics. Being comprised of many layers, in many cases the parts produced are quite delicate and not suited to produce an end consumer product. Naturally, casting them in urethane resin solves that issue.

 

Love the work you are doing with the Admech, the green weapon effect against the blue robes is so wrong that it's right. Seriously striking scheme and well executed brother.

"Blue and green should never be seen, except for in the washing machine."

 

Thanks! I wanted to do something unconventional with my Admech and being analogous colours blue and green will clash in many cases; 'so wrong that it's right' is exactly what I'm going for. From a fiction standpoint, I've come to decide that the radioactive isotopes that my forge world employs to power their weapons and wargear produces Radium as a byproduct with its distinctive eery green luminescence.

 

If the rumors of the new Adeptus Titanicus game being purely Titan oriented turn out to be true, I feel like that resin could rapidly prototype some ‘hyper-detailing’ pieces, like ground crew visible on a Titan carapace or alternate shoulder armor designs.

Large and small alike, I've got part of my brain thinking about Knights and Titans in a big way. I own a Kytan model and I can tell that the resin parts were produced with 3D printed masters. Nothing in the Kytan kit is so large that I couldn't do something similar so that means the door will be open for me to explore most ideas that strike my fancy. Right now I'm just chomping at the bit to get the printer on my workbench and producing the backlog of new and redesigned kits that are already on deck, but once that starts to get taken care of I'm not sure what inspiration I'll follow first. Unless it's so large that I can't fit it in the building envelope of the printer, no idea should be off limits, really.

[Subtle Discord]

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Comm-Link ∙ Active

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Information Exchange ∙ Update

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Transaction ID - 2XT8*********624F ∙ Complete

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Message Transcript ∙ Solus Pattern Task Servitor acquisition transaction ongoing. Servitor mind-wipe, reprogramming, and implantation, complete. Unit entering logistic channels. Estimated transit time: 7-14 planetary rotations. Further updates to follow. Stand by...

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Secondary Task Subroutines ∙ Initialized

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Motivator ∙ Online

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Loading ∙ Paint application algorithms 

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Comm-Link ∙ Active

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[mel_danes]

Looking forward to your first in house prints.

What 3d packages are you using to create the models for printing?

I presume zBrush, and then something for the rigid body work.

Edited April 10, 2018 by mel_danes

[Augustus b'Raass]

Wait, what? 7-14 planetary rotations? Around its axis or around its sun?? I can't wait 7 years for your coolness!!!!

[Subtle Discord]

Looking forward to your first in house prints.

What 3d packages are you using to create the models for printing?

I presume zBrush, and then something for the rigid body work.

Thanks for your vote of confidence, I can't wait to get up-and-running and see what I can do. Right now I'm using Solidworks 2016-17  since that's what I learned in college. While I really like it for 'hard' modeling since in many ways it's almost like building with styrene, I recognize that I'm going to need something else once I get into serious 'soft/organic' modeling. You can do it in Solidworks, but I've seen some demos for other programs that it would be much easier with another solution.

 

Wait, what? 7-14 planetary rotations? Around its axis or around its sun?? I can't wait 7 years for your coolness!!!!

+++ Clarification: 7-14 planetary axis rotations... not solar orbits. +++ *pokes Augustus in the ocular input with a digit*

[Maarten]

Seeing these results compared to what I've been getting from shapeways is simply mindblowing. Really looking forward to what you're going to achieve with this printer and it's definitely going on my wishlist.

PS I really want one of those pineapples.....