Making Noise Marines Scream

[Slave to Darkness]

You want us to not wash and leave bits behind??

[Bonzi]

It's been a long time since anyone posted in this thread, so I suppose Bonzi isn't really playing his Slaanesh themed army anymore. I can state that during the same time period that he was tinkering with his list and playing regularly I was undergoing a similar process with my Tzeentch List which prominantly features Thousand Sons.

My Tzeentch list is based around a number of useful tricks, aggressive daemons, and a powerful psychic phase. It looks something like this:

Ahriman [One Tzeentch Power, Three Biomancy Powers] - (Infiltrating Units - Flamers (1st), Obliderators (2nd), Thousand Sons (3rd))

Thousand Sons (x9) w Meltabombs, Chaos Rhino w Dozer Blades

Thousand Sons (x8) w Meltabombs, Chaos Rhino w Dozer Blades

Obliderators (x2) w MoT, VotLW

Forgefiend w Hades Autocannons

Herald of Tzeentch w PL3, Grimiore of True Names

Horrors (x16) w Chaos Icon

Flamers of Tzeentch (x9) w Ch, Lesser Reward

Screamers of Tzeentch (x9)

I entered a major escalation tournament and went undefeated (seven wins, one tie) but came 2nd because I didn't get my painting in on time one week.

But back on topic - I've recently taken up a similar approach using Emperor's Children models and Slaanesh Daemons and I'm finding it pretty fun to play. I don't suppose anyone has looked at the newer options that have come out from Forgeworld recently? The EC Sonic Dreadnaught is pretty cool, though its a bit expensive for AV12.

I have shuffled off my Slaanesh army but I still have this thread set to notify me if it returns to active. I like your Tzeentch army and I'm glad to hear it's working for you. I think a lesson to take away from my Slaanesh army and your findings with Tzeentch is that there is value in stepping outside of internet meta style lists. When you go far enough outside the norm or the expected, standard tactics and lists loose their effectiveness against you and you gain an equal or greater advantage than you are losing by playing 'sub par' units.

The last I saw Bonzi was returning to blood angels. As for noise marines, i believe they are one of the best cult troops and slaanesh is one of the most cohesive and competitve gods at the current moment. Let's get this thread rolling again as it was the source of alot of information on "Making Noise Marines Scream" Sons of Fulgrim, you must act like nurgle to help perfect our strategies revive this page

~Sapph

I've even wandered past my Blood Angels. I focus mainly on my Necrons because for all my railing against internet meta.....I'm a total hypocrite and I REALLY like the synergies that Necrons rely on. The Necrons have codified in their codex the synergies I so loved to discover hidden in the Slaanesh army. That desire of synergy and army cohesion that I learned in my time with Noise Marines has carried on to my later armies. I don't like deathstar or one man wrecking balls, the army has to work as a whole or I just can't roll with it (one of the reasons I've faded away from my Blood Angels). I also play Imperial Guard and have started a Harlequin army for the same reasons.

Personal babble aside, do not consider this to be 'Bonzi's' thread (unless you want to talk about how awesome I am). I started it, I'm proud of it, but this belongs to anyone who is making Slaanesh work for them and wants to share those ideas with others. This thread is to be an idea ground where enthusiasm for Slaanesh armies is created rather than where internet meta is handed out in hard copy by the commissars of competitive. Anyone should feel free to add to this thread and keep it alive.

I still have this thread on e-mail notification so if anyone has questions regarding Slaanesh tactics vs any of the armies I currently play I will be glad to throw out some advice.

[incinerator950]

I've largely thought about ripping Sheesh's gunline list, but it's hard making a background to a cult I don't like.

[Chouru]

I am very glad I stumbled upon your posts Bonzi! I just recently started playing the game and I decided on a Slaanesh CSM force. However all the games I have played while trying out the Noise Marines were utter failure. A combination of new player and following bad advice from other sources. It seems like your NM loadout is the best. I look forward to trying it out this weekend, I'm going to be able to proxy everything but the soul grinder. I have to admit I am just shamelessly stealing your list, but I will eventually try out different things and modify it to my liking/style.

 

I was honestly thinking about selling my whole army to buy some other army (not sure what it was going to be), but CSM is supposed to get a new codex soon (or at least thats the rumor), and after reading through this topic I have been given a new hope! I will use my DV cultists to proxy the Nettes, and my chosen/converted loyalists for NMs. I look forward to actually being able to do more than just remove my models from the table this weekend!

 

Thank you for your wonderful insights. I will let you know how it goes for me.

 

10/25 Update: editting this to prevent a double post. Played a game last night, 1500 points. Using a very similar army to bonzi's. Don't have the Soul grinder, used a forgefiend instead, not a good choice. Went up against an imperial knight and legion of the damned.

 

This army struggled to kill the knight so i ended up giving up on it and trying to take out the rest of his units. Their 3+ invuln made that rather difficult, but the nettes and herald were able to do some good damage. Two BM units took out a five man legion squad. Knight killed bikes in turn one, then went after the oblits and killed them turn two. All in all i had fun but not really sure how this list can handle those knights. Any insights?

[Submarine]

Hey there, I am getting into CSM and Daemons and planning a slaanesh based list. The intention was to have  mixed CSM/daemon force and I really like the forgeworld Emperor's Children models, so plan to use some of them in 40k. It also helps that a new HH game is on the horizon so our gaming group is taking sides for the purpose of playing it in the future.

 

I like the fluff and many of the slaanesh models, i would love to take the chariot but everyone keeps telling me how bad it is. I am planning a list with the CSM as the primary detachment and a second detachment with daemons. A MON Lord with noise marines as backfield fire support, seekers, daemonettes in rhinos, daemon princes, soul grinder also planned. I am not convinced by the KOS but happy to take advice on that. This is all theoryhammer at the moment. I'm looking forward to painting up some models and building the force. We have a friendly but competitive group so I want to try and optimise the list as much as possible, in a friendly way! 

[Bonzi]

This army struggled to kill the knight so i ended up giving up on it and trying to take out the rest of his units. Their 3+ invuln made that rather difficult, but the nettes and herald were able to do some good damage. Two BM units took out a five man legion squad. Knight killed bikes in turn one, then went after the oblits and killed them turn two. All in all i had fun but not really sure how this list can handle those knights. Any insights?

 

Legion of the Damned fall to massed bolter fire or scads of Nette attacks, it's the only counter to 3++ saves.  Oblits firing assault cannons would be a decent choice as well.

 

The Knights are a problem.  When I made this initial list super heavies were not an option in regular play and Knights are straight out broken unless you tailor your list to fight them.  The best CSM units against a Knight would probably be a trio of suicide MSU terminators with combi meltas DSing on three different facings or a pair of mauler fiends kitted for CC.  You're still going to lose one to two units a turn against Knights no matter what you do.  Unfortunately CSM and Daemons are older books and have limited access to the D weapons it really takes to drop super heavies.   I think Noise Marines/Nettes is still a viable combo in general play but if you start running into super heavies or heavy decurion style lists its going to hurt.

[Thedarkprincesnun]

Question regarding unit size of noise marines 2 X 5 with a blast master each or 1 x 10 with 2 Blast Masters. In regards to the list this is pretty much the rest of it

Lord on bike mark of slaanesh Daemonheart Sigil blade of relentless melta bombs

2 X 10 csm with MoS 2 plasma guns and a rhino each

30 Cultists with 2 Flamers MoS

5 Bikes with MoS Icon of Excess Melta Bombs and eother 2 Melta Guns or 2 Plasma Guns

Predator with Auto Cannon and Heavy Bolters

Tri las predator

Or atleast that's what I've settled on so far lol

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Elite slots aren't an issue for you so I'd recommend 2x5 and dropping the Marks on your Lord, CSM and Cultists. If you drop it on the Lord, you may as well drop it on the Bkes, too. Definitely drop the Marks on the CSM (or tool them for assault to take advantage of the Mark) and definitely drop the Mark on the Cultists. The points are better spent elsewhere. You have no AA at all, for example.

[Thedarkprincesnun]

Elite slots aren't an issue for you so I'd recommend 2x5 and dropping the Marks on your Lord, CSM and Cultists. If you drop it on the Lord, you may as well drop it on the Bkes, too. Definitely drop the Marks on the CSM (or tool them for assault to take advantage of the Mark) and definitely drop the Mark on the Cultists. The points are better spent elsewhere. You have no AA at all, for example.

My plan is to buy the csm the additional ccws. The cultists I've found actually make great use of it as I face marines alot so them striking at the same time is great for me. I would not normally run such a large unit of cultists but after having great success last Sunday with a 20 man unit I'd like to try a bigger one

 

Ok so I'm going to keep the mark on the Lord as I'd like to try to keep my elite slots free for when I start getting myself some FW stuff. Plus I6 is pretty damn good. Il drop slaanesh off the csm squads though

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

A CSM with CCW and MoS is only 1pt cheaper than a Noise Marine with a CCW, who is Fearless.

[Thedarkprincesnun]

True and I could just buy my Noise Marine squads ccws :P especially as I learnt last Saturday that tactical marines like charging them

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I had a Vassal list that used 3 6 man NM squads, in Rhinos, pushing into midfield and dakkaing anything that came close. It worked well, but I don't play against competitive typs so YMMV.

[Teetengee]

nm squads without sonic weapons aren't bad on paper, although they do compete a bit with nettes for purpose.

[Sersi]

So, lets talk about integrating the new Slaaneshi Chaos Daemon Formations with Emperor Children. 

 

I'd say that all three Slaaneshi formation are viable in a EC list.  You could even run a full Daemonic Incursion detachment for just under 1,000 pts. 

 

Flayertroupe:

 

Take a Herald, 70X Daemonettes for 760 pts.

Or a Herald, with 40X Daemonettes, and 9 Fiends for 625 pts.

 

- Lots of options here and not to expensive given their 12" re-roll to hit bubble from the loci.

 

Grand Cavalcade Formation: 

 

Take a Herald in a seeker chariot and 6X seeker chariots for  385 pts

Or a Herald on a steed with 15X seekers and 5X seeker chariots for 535 pts.

 

- That's allot of fast moving armor saturation, especially is you take Rhino's with the Noise Marines.

- Assuming they don't die before the hit combat each chariot will do 2-3D6 S4/AP-/Rending hits.

- If you take the Seeker unit you can take the icon and daemon bomb in a Flayertroupe into the enemies face.

 

Forgehost Formation:

 

- 3X Slaaneshi Soul Grinders armed with the torrent flamer and re-roll to hit and wound from the formation. 

 

 

 

Also, Imperial Armor 13 has some nice synergy with the new formations as well.

 

Legacies of Ruin (Forge World):

 

Screams of Lugganath: (+25 pts)

 

- Grants vehicles Fear against Eldar.

- Its Dirge Casters have a range 12".

- Taking it on a cheap Rhino seems the best option if you don't take a super-heavy.

 

Vessel of Shayk the Seeker: (+15 pts)

 

-  The vehicle has the Fear USR.

-  Enemy units within 12" of an Icon of Excess.

-  Must roll an additional D6 and discard the lower result when making any test using LD.

 

-  Excellent synergy with both the Slaanesh, Excess, and Telepathy psychic lores.

-  Given how dependent Slaanesh powers and abilities are on LD this would be very nice to have.

-  The only question is what vehicle to take the Legacy on. Maybe a Sonic Dreadnought since unlike "Screams" it doesn't have to close with the enemy and can hang back and shoot .

[Slaanbull]

I definitely see the soul grinder formation as a great add-on to most chaos lists, and my dreadnoughts would love for the enemy to shoot at the grinders.

 

The other formations I can't say much about, only ever used demons for summoning.

One thing though; Vessel of Shyak the Seeker is worded '..enemy units within 12" WITH an icon of excess..' meaning that it is extremely specific and only works against hostile CSM units carrying an expensive upgrade?

[Teetengee]

Seems like vessel is slightly off somewhere, we should check on that one.

Also, daemonettes+blastmasters has worked in the past, and I see no reason buffed Daemonettes+blastmasters won't work now.

[Sersi]

Yeah, I thinks its just typical poor FW proof reading.  I emailed Forgeworld for clarification this morning.  It can't be vs other CSM though since is says in the description it effects servants of the Emperor.  It only makes sense if it enemy units effected by your icons.  I mean hot Slaaneshi marine on marine action not withstanding; I don't think I've ever fought another Slaanesh player.  Heck, outside the internet I've never even met one. 

[incinerator950]

I seriously want to make gritty NMs with Blast masters for my havocbacks.

 

The problem is I'm just super :cussing lazy and tired.

[Thedarkprincesnun]

The problem i have when i want to run Noise Marines in a rhino is i want to move the rhino lol

[Paradigm]

I move the rhinos and park them at annoying choke points, but leave the noise marines in position to drop the ignores cover blast on the inevitable bunching that follows. Half the enemy squad is behind the rhino, you say? BM don't care. If I take havoc launchers, they have to decide to either focus the rhino which is an easy kill but wastes a turn of shooting and likely in cover itself, or focus the noise marines that are thinning their own troops and also in cover and get extra blasts. Great to outflank via a steed with burning brand, and a squad of fnp bikers as well.

[Sheesh Mode]

As someone who uses Noise Marines during semi-competitive games I guarantee Noise Marines are the key to an effective ranged chaos space marine list. A squad of 5 noise marines inside of a havoc armed rhino, equipped with knives, a Blastmaster, and a Doom siren, come to 197pts. It's extremely versatile, perhaps the most versatile unit in our codex and complements Rapier platforms amazingly well.

Use them to sit back and destroy key enemy units.
If you are fighting guard, snipe out their artillery and command elements.
Against Eldar, kill their Jet Seers, and bikes.  
Against Orks, Lootas, Bikes, and bosses
Necrons? Lords, Destroyers, and - eventually - their vehicles
Tyranids, lol everything

You get the idea. 

Noise Marine I5 becomes extremely useful when your forcing your opponent to come to you and then overwhelm them with I5 attacks before they can swing at you. Forcing saves can be enough to gut the last few models and wounds from an originally threatening unit. Especially when its been hit by a few Blast Masters and Cyclotrathe Conversion Beamers. Just keep them in a metal box to make your opponent work for the kills rather than running those poor sadists out naked. Just because the dummies want to do that doesn't mean they should. 

[Paradigm]

How do you like the cyclotrathe rapiers vs hades ones, or laser destroyers? I've thought about converting my laser destroyers over, but haven't gotten around to it yet. At the cost though, I've been thinking a lot more about the hades model.

 

Otherwise, I run the same noise marine squads you seem to be using. I usually run two vindicator laser destroyers in my list as well.

[Sheesh Mode]

How do you like the cyclotrathe rapiers vs hades ones, or laser destroyers? I've thought about converting my laser destroyers over, but haven't gotten around to it yet. At the cost though, I've been thinking a lot more about the hades model.

 

Otherwise, I run the same noise marine squads you seem to be using. I usually run two vindicator laser destroyers in my list as well.

 

I prefer the Cyclotrathe to any of the other rapier platforms. It accomplishes what the others are built to with extreme overkill, and the inherent weakness of range-to-strength is mitigated by your noise marines, as well as your Sonic Dreadnoughts. The hades Autocannons are a worthwhile consideration as well. They are simply an improvement on the Quad-linked heavy bolters. More shots at an higher strength and lower ap.

 

The benefits of the Sonic Dreadnought have already been explained, correct?

[incinerator950]

 

 

How do you like the cyclotrathe rapiers vs hades ones, or laser destroyers? I've thought about converting my laser destroyers over, but haven't gotten around to it yet. At the cost though, I've been thinking a lot more about the hades model.

 

Otherwise, I run the same noise marine squads you seem to be using. I usually run two vindicator laser destroyers in my list as well.

I prefer the Cyclotrathe to any of the other rapier platforms. It accomplishes what the others are built to with extreme overkill, and the inherent weakness of range-to-strength is mitigated by your noise marines, as well as your Sonic Dreadnoughts. The hades Autocannons are a worthwhile consideration as well. They are simply an improvement on the Quad-linked heavy bolters. More shots at an higher strength and lower ap.

 

The benefits of the Sonic Dreadnought have already been explained, correct?

In the dread topic.

[Bonzi]

First a fitting soundtrack for this threads revival.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA

 

Why?  You know why.  Traitor Legions has been leaked/reviewed all over the internet and on this forum in particular and the dirt for the Emperors Children is good.  About a year ago I began to revive my Emperors Children via the Battle at Calth box with the intention of starting a 30K and 40K crossover army and coming back to this thread when the time was right.  With the dropping of this new book the time is now.

 

My new army is themed off of the Children as they were at the close of the 30th millenia, where it was all about immaculate planning, martial perfection, and a pretty boy shinny aesthetic.  I hope to post some progress pictures soon but I will lead with the spoiler that I've got an airbrush and perlescent purple paint for the base coat....so candy coated EC in all their shinny glory.

 

I will preface all my following comments and reviews with the fact that I never bought Crimson Slaughter, Black Legion, or the first Space Wolf campaign where Chaos Daemons finally got their decurion.  I did buy Traitors hate because I love Blood Angels and hoped it would do something for the EC. My speculation is based off of the admittedly fairly complete internet leaks of Traitor Legions, I do not have the actual book until this Saturday.

 

Chapter Tactics:

 

First up to discuss is our new EC chapter Tactics and what they mean to how we play and the units we use.  Considering you have to buy a Mark of Slaanesh and get VotLW free as mandatory I'm going to roll it all together because it is what makes an Emperors Children Legion marine rather than a simple Slaanesh CSM devotee.

 

So, +1 Initiative, +1 Leadership, Hatred Astartes, Fearless, FnP 6+, and any model killed in close combat before it can swing gets to make a single attack at the initiative step where it died.

 

The Good:

 

Fearless across the board.  This removes one of the biggest weaknesses that crippled many CSM units, especially ones oriented to close combat.  Oblits and Havoks breaking from one or two casualties and running off the board or having an elite unit getting swept in close combat because of a single whiffed round of fighting.  This one rule gives our entire army and all units the reliability that we previously only got from our warlord or Noise Marines.  Oblits and Mutilators in particular come to my mind when I consider this rule.  We can now dominate MSU tactics at an entirely different level...we may hand out VPs to our opponents like candy, but we will also be amazingly flexible.

 

FnP that stacks with our Banners and Warlord traits.  If you don't think this 6+ is significant, go talk to an Iron Hands player.  You will eventually roll that 6+ FnP that keeps your Blastmaster in the game and shooting or the one that lets you win a challenge.  Those are the small events that can swing a tight game to your favor. The fact that it stacks with our Warlord trait or Banner takes durable units to the next level.  Not only will our units fight until the death, it will be even harder to kill them at all.

 

+1 Initiative.  You know it, you used to kind of love it.  Previously this stat buff belonged in the meh category until we got armywide fearless.  It used to be a mixed bag for CSM to get into CC with the dangers of being wiped, so a bonus to a CC stat was good but not great.  Now this is more useful with the abandon with which we can throw units into combat and paired with formations like the Raptor Talon.

 

The Meh:

 

+1 LD from VotLW.  Its always better to have a higher leadership but it means less since we have Fearless.  Really its primary use now is defense against LD tests such as psychic shriek.  Its good, but this one is better for other legions.

 

Hatred Astartes.  Hatred is good and Astartes are very common armies but this is situational and your mileage will vary depending on your local meta.  Against SM it may give you the edge you need but if your opponent is running some of the more broken formations available to SM it may still leave your pretty far in the hole.

 

We always get at least one attack in CC.  This one is similar to Hatred Astartes in that it's very situational.  I love the fluff of it and it makes the third layer of the EC cake...we fight to the death, we are hard to kill, even in death we still fight.  It feels right.  For most fights our Initiative 5 or better means this point is moot...against an average opponent we will have already swung before we get killed.  Where this really matters is that we still get mileage out of unwieldy weapons.  It used to feel like a waste to take an Axe on a Slaanesh unit because it wasted the I5.  Now we have a rule to counter-balance that...the ax or powerfist may get killed before it can swing, but we still get one attack out of it.  This makes our Champion of Chaos challenge rule less of a burden, even when it forces us into an unwinnable fight.  As a final note, consider this.  The death attack happens at the initiative where the wielder dies...if your powerfist dies at I4....that one swing happens at I4 too.  Its subtle, but that can be a game changer if it lets you take out another heavy/slow hitter before they can swing.

 

The Bleh:

 

Honestly?  Army wide Fearless.  It's a double edged sword and you know why.  Never going to ground for a better cover save, never being able to disengage from a fight where you can't hurt your opponent.  ATSKNF is better, we all know it, lets move on.  I think on the balance it will be of more use than detriment, but the downside bears mentioning.

 

The elephant in the corner....these rules, while awesome, have the side effect of making our Noise Marines expensive by comparison.  Depending on if you buy the extra CCW or not, Noise Marines are 2-3pts more expensive than marked CSM and the only real difference is access to Sonic Weaponry.  Thankfully NM do have access to Sonic Weaponry or they would be as sadly redundant as Plauge Marines and Berserkers became with this supplement.  It used to be that cost difference was basically the cost of getting Fearless and was totally worth it, but now with army wide free Fearless the scales have re-balanced.  I still love sonic weaponry and Noise Marines, but it is worth considering CSM now as they are cheaper and give you access to different weapons.

 

Coming Soon:  Discussion on our Warlord Traits, Relics, Decurion and Formation Bonuses, ect

 

As always, feel free to add your thoughts and ideas in as well as any corrections on information I have posted incorrectly.