Making Noise Marines Scream

[Teetengee]

The full detachment thing, whatever its called, (not the formations but the main force org) counts as a CAD does it not? Thus if you have your full minimum requirements you should be able to add FW to it correct? They just do not count towards any of the required slots that have to be filled. At least that is how I understand it. Just curious, not sure if I would be adding any FW anyway to my EC aside from maybe a Hellblade for air support.

no......?

 

nothing counts as a CAD but a CAD. You don't need a CAD. Additionally, you can't just add FW stuff to cads either, it has to be one of the options available.

[Castigator]

It's the restrictions in the IA13 book that prevent it.

For example, the Fire Raptor is a Heavy Support choice for Chaos Space Marines, but unfortunately, Heavy Support (along with HQ, Elite, Fast Attack and Troop choices) is a CAD terminology. The Dreadclaw however, is a dedicated transport for Chaos Space Marines or Chosen, so that can be taken in a Rapture Battalion if it includes a Chaos Warband.

[Teetengee]

It's the restrictions in the IA13 book that prevent it.

For example, the Fire Raptor is a Heavy Support choice for Chaos Space Marines, but unfortunately, Heavy Support (along with HQ, Elite, Fast Attack and Troop choices) is a CAD terminology. The Dreadclaw however, is a dedicated transport for Chaos Space Marines or Chosen, so that can be taken in a Rapture Battalion if it includes a Chaos Warband.

well, not CAD terminology persay, there are several detachments that use those methods, it is just that most recent ones do not use battlefield role to determine allowed units.

[Galron]

So in addition to the main detachment, one would have to take a bare minimum CAD to bring in FW? This is why I normally stick to 30k, organization is so much simpler :P

[Teetengee]

So in addition to the main detachment, one would have to take a bare minimum CAD to bring in FW? This is why I normally stick to 30k, organization is so much simpler

Or Purge detachment, or a couple other options, but yes.

Depending on what FW you want though, allied detachment may be the easiest (only 1 hq 1 troop requirement)

[DraneceusRex]

 

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@hushrong, I believe that you need to give them the mark if you want them to be emperors children. I don't think you can go ahead and leave without a mark.

 

You'll need a separate detachment for all of your forgeworld stuff since the formations do not reference them. A shame too, makes it harder to get the noise dread in there. Can always take a main detachment with a warp smith and a cultist squad.

Thank you, sir!

 

I really hope FW could have their goodies brought in without having to go the route of CAD or allied. I am silently praying and wishing they come out with some kind of data sheet of formations for IA 13.

 

Changed my list to the following:

Removed one noise marine with a CCW and changed the murdersword for blissgiver. This got me enough points to give the mark to the Warpsmith and get a havoc launcher.

Cult of Golden Tears v.22 1500pts

Kakaphoni:

-Lord, MoS, Blissgiver

-Noise Marines, 4x Sonic Blasters, Rhino (objective grabbers)

-Noise Marines, 4x Sonic Blasters, Rhino (objective grabbers)

 

-Noise Marines, 3x Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster (fire support)

 

-Noise Marines, 3x Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster (fire support)

-Noise Marines, 3x Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster (fire support)

-Noise Marines, +1 NM, 5x CCW, Icon (objective grabber/enemy warlord hunter, Lord went here)

 

Fist of the Gods,

-Warpsmith, MoS

-Predator, autocannon, heavy bolter sponsons

-Predator, autocannon, heavy bolter sponsons

-Land Raider, Havoc Launcher (Lord and NM CCW squad hitched a ride with Warpsmith)

 

*Obviously everything has VotLW for free.

 

Played this slightly retooled list again against my regular opponent and his Dark Eldar. Getting to go first, less terrain for him to hide behind, and some good dice rolling saw him take a lot of damage quick and constantly throughout our game. Noise weaponry was already a problem for him and with it packing more punch it became brutal. I am satisfied with the performance my noise boys are having but I am looking forward to taking on some other armies.

 

One thing I want to try if I free up points is a Sorcerer with Symphony of Pain. I grin ear to ear thinking about another boost to our noise weapons.

I like the idea of your mobile NM units. Might try that out myself.

[Yarmoss]

.

The Elixer and massed Combat Drugs (the main reason for taking the Warband) worked out well. A couple of silly roles (+1 I on a static NM squad and +1 BS on the Spawn!) but I managed to roll +1 T on the biker Warlord and Terminators which meant once the bikers were dead the Lord was being wounded on 6s.

FnP 6+ never worked for me and with all

I won on VP. A good first outing

You roll combat drugs once for the whole force, not per unit.

Congrats on the win

It's one roll per army?? Wow, how did I miss that? Hmmm well I guess that will save on the book keeping, no need to make a bunch of counters now!

[hushrong]

It's one roll per army?? Wow, how did I miss that? Hmmm well I guess that will save on the book keeping, no need to make a bunch of counters now!

I did the same thing. Read over that blurb so quick and was already wondering how or what I would use to mark my units.

My buddy thought it was kind of crazy, looked at the rules, and cleared that up for me.

So in addition to the main detachment, one would have to take a bare minimum CAD to bring in FW? This is why I normally stick to 30k, organization is so much simpler

Yeah...so a Sorcerer with a mark and cutlists with a mark would be the cheapest way to go. I wouldn't mind bringing in more NM through an allied detachment BUT since they would not be part of the Kakaphoni they wouldn't get sweet, extra rules.

I like the idea of your mobile NM units. Might try that out myself.

It's alright. Just moving cuts the effectiveness of the sonic blasters a bit. However I still think they pack quite a punch.

The only thing I am starting to worry about now is anti-air. Usually I have heldrakes or more recently Hell Blades ready and rearing to take down enemy flyers. But now I am wondering what are other thoughts in this department? I was fortunate in one game where buddy's razorwing went down from a multitude of sonic blaster shots but that won't always be the case and against some flyers it will not be enough.

So Heldrakes? Aegis defense line? Hope I get a mysterious objective that gives me skyfire?

[ThatOneMarshal]

Could always have an aegis with some allied in iron warriors havocs for tank hunters.

 

Otherwise I would probalby say that an aegis or just ignore the flier works best. 

[hushrong]

Could always have an aegis with some allied in iron warriors havocs for tank hunters.

 

Otherwise I would probalby say that an aegis or just ignore the flier works best. 

This is a time where I wish I could steal some AA from another army. An allied IW detachment would work well too with an aegis gunline. Nice thinking on that!

 

I wish I could ignore fliers but my group of gamers will always have one around in their lists and I hate the idea of it flying around unmolested with a few turns to shoot my stuff up.

[heptus]

So in addition to the main detachment, one would have to take a bare minimum CAD to bring in FW? This is why I normally stick to 30k, organization is so much simpler

as well as the fortification.

Both the rapture battalion and the black crusade don't provide the forti slot.

[Teetengee]

 

Could always have an aegis with some allied in iron warriors havocs for tank hunters.

 

Otherwise I would probalby say that an aegis or just ignore the flier works best. 

This is a time where I wish I could steal some AA from another army. An allied IW detachment would work well too with an aegis gunline. Nice thinking on that!

 

I wish I could ignore fliers but my group of gamers will always have one around in their lists and I hate the idea of it flying around unmolested with a few turns to shoot my stuff up.

 

Flying slaanesh prince for vector striking goodness?

[Bonzi]

Sorry this has been going so slow everyone, between the holidays an arm injury and an upcoming trip to Europe things have been pretty hectic.  Before the Christmas holiday and my subsequent trip I did manage to get two games in today against two different opponents.

 

First Game: 2,000pt Emperors Children (Rapture Battalion) vs Astra Militarum (CAD)  Cloak and Shadows/Hammer and Anvil

 

EC Rapture Battalion (Drugs +1 Init)

 

Command (Warlord: +1 FnP for squad):

Sorc: MoS, VotLW, terminator armor, force sword, elixer (+1 A, +1 BS)

 

Kakaphoni:

Lord: MoS, VotLW, sigil of corruption, lash of submission, meltabomb

x9 Noise Marines: champ, pw sword, doom siren, meltabomb, Icon of E, xtra ccws, VotLW (Lord here)

Rhino

x10 Noise Marines: champ, pw sword, doom siren, meltabomb, Icon of E, xtra ccws, VotLW

Rhino

x5 Noise Marines: blastmaster, VotLW

x5 Noise Marines: blastmaster, VotLW

x5 Noise Marines: blastmaster, VotLW

x5 Noise Marines: x4 sonic blasters, VotLW

 

Cult of Destruction:

Warpsmith: MoS, VotLW, bolts of vexation (Sorc here)

x3 Mutilators: MoS, VotLW

x2 Obliterators: MoS, VotLW

x2 Obliterators: MoS, VotLW

 

 

Astra Militarum CAD

 

x2 Leman Russ Punishers, tank commander, x6 heavy bolters

 

Scions: x2 volley guns

Scions: x2 melta guns

 

PCS: stuff

-Chimera

Infantry Squad: grenade launcher

-Chimera

Infantry Squad: grenade launcher

-Chimera

Infantry Squad: grenade launcher

-Chimera

x3 Heavy Weapon Teams: missiles

x3 Heavy Weapon Teams: autocannons

 

Vets: hvy flamer, x2 melta guns

-Taurox: autocannon

 

x3 Armored Sentinels: multilasers

 

x2 Leman Russ Battle Tanks

x1 Leman Russ Eradicator: multimelta sponsons

x1 Wyvern

 

Quick rundown:

 

He went first with everything deployed except Scions in deep strike reserve.  I deployed everything but left Mutilators+Sorc and one squad of Oblits in deep strike reserve.  His first two turns he rolled to hit like a fiend but his rolls to wound and to pen were terrible beyond belief.  My rhinos raced across the field and deposited both Noise Marine squads at his front door where they proceeded to delete every dismounted squad they could find while walking through hails of gunfire.  I DS'd my Mutilators+Sorc in his back corner, my Oblits scattered onto a tank and were destroyed.  My opponent conceded by end of my turn 4 as the points had really swung my way and I was in his deployment wrecking units and tanks and he couldn't stop me.

 

Unit Reviews:

 

Sorc + Mutilators: These guys are pretty much the reason my opponent folded.  I dropped them into a corner where his whole army couldn't shoot me and starting turn three they began a march of murder that couldn't be stopped.  In turn 3 they destroyed an infantry squad with power mauls, in turn 4 they tore the Eradicator apart with chainfists and were poised to wreck the Sentinel squad in the next turn.  The Sorc actually carried his weight this time by buffing the Mutilators with extra attacks and strength and he blinded and chased the autocannon weapons team off the board with his powers.

 

Doom Siren squads:  These were the other workhorses of the game.  Every time I dismounted an infantry squad from their vehicle these guys erased them...with prejudice.  I managed a clever use of the Siren on one squad, obliterating an infantry squad with split fire siren while bolt pistol and charging the platoon command squad with the rest of the guys.  The squad with the lord spent most of their time slapping meltabombs on his tank commander squad, killing one and lining up to finish off his warlord in turn five.

 

Blastmaster squads:  These guys really let me down.  They hung some hull points on Chimeras and wrecked the Taurox and instadeathed his missile launcher teams.  They held points and one squad did beat down some Scions once they DS'd in and killed the blastmaster.  They felt pretty secondary this mission, mostly because they are not ideal against tank heavy lists.

 

Sonic Blaster squad:  Meh.  They died pretty hard and were never really in range of any surviving infantry (sirens beat them to the punch).  They did capture a point for a VP I guess.

 

Warpsmith + Oblits:  With so much armor on the board I was going to lean on these guys really hard...or at least that was the plan.  The one squad died DSing in, the other spent the game shooting at the Russ Battle Tank squad.  They killed one.  The Warpsmith got bored of their failures and turned around to singlehandedly kill the Scion melta squad with shooting and CC.

 

Lord:  Another game where my CC beast spent his time...slapping meltabombs on a tank hull.

 

This game was really in the hands of the Mutilators and the Siren Squads.  The units I expected to do the least against a Mech opponent carried me through and made my opponent say uncle.

 

 

Next Game 1.5K EC Rapture Battalion vs Orks (CAD)

 

I ran the same list as above paired down in points.  I dropped the Mutilators, Sorc, and an Oblit along with some upgrades.  I rolled +1 Init for army drugs...again.  D3 fear for warlord on the Lord.

 

Orks CAD + painboy formation?

 

Warboss: klaw, cybork body

Wierdboy: lvl 2

Painboy

 

x5 Nobs: whaggg banner, klaw, flamer, big choppa

-Gorkanuaght: lots of guns

 

x10 Slugga boys: klaw (Wierdboy here)

x10 Slugga boys klaw (Painboy + Warboss here)

-Truck

x20 Slugga boys: klaw, x2 rokkits

-Warwagon

 

Defdread: x3 klaws, heavy flamer

 

x10ish Lootas

 

 

Quick rundown:

 

He got first turn with everything deployed on board.  I followed suit with nothing in reserve.  First turn went my way with his Weirdboy teleporting his unit right in front of my Noise Marines who taught him the error of this in my following turn.  Turn 2, 3, & 4 saw heavy combat with Doom Sirens putting out the hurt but my guys falling in combat.  He targeted my Oblits early and I played them aggressively so when they went down I was left with no good answer to the Gorkanaught which was still in play and starting to pancake my guys.  It was a slug fest and I did lots of damage but I was really on the ropes, my Lord died to a power klaw and the other Siren squad got swamped and destroyed by his Gorkanaught and Nobs.  The Warpsmith ate a klaw as well but took his nob with him.  

 

By turn five I was down to the nubbins, sitting on two damaged blastmaster squads holding my left deployment zone, a wrecked four man doom siren squad fighting the warboss in the midfield, one damaged rhino in midfield, and a lone blastmaster holding the entire right flank.  He was down to the Warboss, the Gorkanaught lining up to kill my deployment zone, and a unit of Nobs which was rampaging through my units and making 4+ armor saves like they were 2+s, and 6 Lootas in his zone.  In that turn my Blastmasters immobilized his Gorkanaught, the last Siren squad beat down his warboss, the Rhino tankshocked the Lootas into a tight group for the lone right flank Blastmaster to erase four of them and cause the last two to flee off the board.  I also knocked down several Nobs down, leaving just two left.  In the last turn I finished of the Gorkanaught and the last Nobs, tabling my opponent.

 

Daemon Prince-worthy moments:

 

In my turn one a lone Oblit advanced towards his battle wagon, immobilized it with a multimelta shot, and then charged 11" to exploded the wagon with a single punch, killing 6 orks between the explosion and mob rules.  He died the next turn but he backhanded an Ork as he fell, taking one last victim with him to the gardens of slaanesh.

 

On the opposite flank a Oblit with the Warpsmith cooked his weirdboy squad with lots of flamers and then punched out the remaining Nob (though the Klaw did take the Warpsmith while the Oblit passed his invuln.  In the next turn the Oblit died under the flailing arms of the Deafdred but his death blow stunned it, preventing it from moving of shooting for a turn.

 

By turn 3 all I had left on the right flank was a lone Blastmaster who had his squad destroyed on turn 1.  Staring him down was an injured Deafdred, a Nob squad, and the Lootas.  The Blasmaster responded to this by moving 6" and running an additional 5" to capture an objective than netted me 2 VPs when the game was tight.  Next turn he turned 4 Lootas to goo and made the last two run from the field.  On turn 6 he killed the last two Nobs with a perfect shot, ending the game.

[heptus]

Thanks for the good review, Bonzi. I'll get one or two games with my new EC soon. I'd like to share my experiences here.

 

Btw, regarding your close-combat noise marines, how do you overcome the disadvantage of rhino (i.e., non-assault vehicle)? Do you just wait for a turn after disembarking?

 

Also, the soulsnare lash. I think the pseudo-rending attack is bit unstable despite the instagib, especially when our lord should fight against the enemy elites. How do you exploit the soulsnare ability? I'd like to try it instead of my conventional LC/PF combo.

 

You may mention it already, but I haven't read all this threads yet. Sorry about that case.

[Bonzi]

Thanks for the good review, Bonzi. I'll get one or two games with my new EC soon. I'd like to share my experiences here.

 

Btw, regarding your close-combat noise marines, how do you overcome the disadvantage of rhino (i.e., non-assault vehicle)? Do you just wait for a turn after disembarking?

 

Also, the soulsnare lash. I think the pseudo-rending attack is bit unstable despite the instagib, especially when our lord should fight against the enemy elites. How do you exploit the soulsnare ability? I'd like to try it instead of my conventional LC/PF combo.

 

You may mention it already, but I haven't read all this threads yet. Sorry about that case.

 

#1.  Noise Marines are never close combat monsters like BA Death Company who only really make their money in CC.  I equip them as such because that is where they end up and the extra CCW's and the power weapon on the Champion are cheap upgrades that increase versatility and make sure my NM can break free to use their Siren some more.  The whole 'don't crack open the rhino' tactic doesn't work on these squads because of the Doom Sirens.  For close quarters Noise Marines, the Sirens are the money makers and an opponent who leaves you free to use them is playing into your hands.  I have found my Siren squads are most effective when I dismount them in the thick of a fight and use the Siren and double tapping bolters along with split-fire to dish out a lot of hurt while my Icon + FnP + Fearless lets me walk through most return fire.  When an opponent decides its better to tie me up in CC they eat more siren+bolter overwatch, then they get slapped in the face by Init 5 before they can even swing.  By contrast, contorting yourself in circles trying to find a way to get the charge with NM is a bit of a waste.  At the end of the day you are still just a basic assault marine in combat and they don't really beat face unless you are going against soft targets, it is the Sirens that rack up the kills and CC is there just for the mop-up.   It also doesn't help that the Siren will consistently kill you out of good charge range

 

#2.  I've only got to use the Lash a limited number of times and it has disappointed so far...but to date I've shot with it 3 or 4 times, twice in overwatch where it actually hit but in all cases I've failed to wound.  In the only close combat against a Nob with 1 wound left, my Lord only hit with 2 of 5 attacks and failed to wound with those.  Then he ate a klaw.  In general I think the Lash needs to be paired with another utility weapon because unless you are facing 2+ armor or multiwound, a power weapon of some variety is going to be better and at that point it might just be best to give him a Lightning Claw/P Fist combo for roughly the same points but better utility.  I'm going to keep running it and I will try blissgiver too, but so far in three games my Lord has done little to justify his cost, let alone his wargear (this is mostly a by product of how I am running him in my list).

[heptus]

Alright, I had a game against Tau today, and gladly wanna share my experiences. Just a few of impressive points.

1. Combat drug made my guys BS5. T+1 would be the best, but this bonus was still good for me. BS5 autocannons & meltaguns were awesome. One of my chosen units even sat on the objective of re-rolling To Hit of 1, which effectively made them BS10!

2. Slaanesh bikes with IoE were impressively tough, as all of us expected. I also picked up Warp Fate so my bikelord of hedonism got 3+/4++ rerollable saves in addition to FNP(4+).

3. The most impressive one was Sonic Shockwave, one of the three new psychic powers that Slaanesh gave us. Turn 3 my sorcerer managed to go deep into the Tau deployment zone and SCREAMED. The noise nova blew up a unit of fire warriors, pinned another unit, kicked out a unit of stealth suits beyond the table, and stripped 1HP of devil fish.

I admit Slaanesh's psychic powers are very situational, but it was a great pleasure that he/she/it granted.

And thanks for the advice, Bonzi. I will try the doom siren squad for my first game in 2017! Cannot wait for torching those smurfs

[hushrong]

@heptus: That before and after pic is awesome! Very happy to see the destructive power of Slaanesh at work.

 

How do you use your bikers? The thought of an Icon-equipped bike squad is tantalizing and I wouldn't mind dusting my bikes off to reprise their role as infantry killers.

 

 

 

#1.  Noise Marines are never close combat monsters like BA Death Company who only really make their money in CC.  I equip them as such because that is where they end up and the extra CCW's and the power weapon on the Champion are cheap upgrades that increase versatility and make sure my NM can break free to use their Siren some more.  The whole 'don't crack open the rhino' tactic doesn't work on these squads because of the Doom Sirens.  For close quarters Noise Marines, the Sirens are the money makers and an opponent who leaves you free to use them is playing into your hands.  I have found my Siren squads are most effective when I dismount them in the thick of a fight and use the Siren and double tapping bolters along with split-fire to dish out a lot of hurt while my Icon + FnP + Fearless lets me walk through most return fire.  When an opponent decides its better to tie me up in CC they eat more siren+bolter overwatch, then they get slapped in the face by Init 5 before they can even swing.  By contrast, contorting yourself in circles trying to find a way to get the charge with NM is a bit of a waste.  At the end of the day you are still just a basic assault marine in combat and they don't really beat face unless you are going against soft targets, it is the Sirens that rack up the kills and CC is there just for the mop-up.   It also doesn't help that the Siren will consistently kill you out of good charge range

I may have to give this a shot as I have never thought to use NM this way when getting to grips with the enemy. Plus, I never get a chance to use my doom siren when I bring them (sad story here).

 

Time and again I get them stuck in there and whittle away at the enemy. Really digging the idea of them unloading near the enemy and opening fire with everything they have and not worry about assaulting. Then the next turn just wait for something foolish enough to charge. 

 

Off to make a list with some changes to try out hopefully this week...

[Bonzi]

Thanks for the great pic heptus. It looks like you ran the warband. I have not used that yet. How did it work out for you? Was objective secured handy? What about the boon table rerolls and bonuses?

 

I think bikes remain one of our best character delivery systems. Looks like it paid off for you.

[heptus]

@heptus: That before and after pic is awesome! Very happy to see the destructive power of Slaanesh at work.

How do you use your bikers? The thought of an Icon-equipped bike squad is tantalizing and I wouldn't mind dusting my bikes off to reprise their role as infantry killers.

PF sigil lord + Lv3 sorcerer (1 psychic from Slaanesh & 2 from Sinistrum) + and 3-man bike team only with IoE.

ㄴNeither LC nor any relic due to 1500 pts.

I admit I was lucky to get Warp Fate & Infiltrate (from Strategic Traits); the game would be tougher without them. Anyway my opponent decided to focus on the others rather than this half-death star, which ate up her backyard army from T3 using a multiple charge.

Thanks for the great pic heptus. It looks like you ran the warband. I have not used that yet. How did it work out for you? Was objective secured handy? What about the boon table rerolls and bonuses?

I think bikes remain one of our best character delivery systems. Looks like it paid off for you.

I use the rapture battalion composed of the warband and the small kakophoni formation (3 NM squads rather than 6), which have worked greatly thus far. I know S+1 sonic weapons are awesome, but 6 NM squads look bit expensive for me. I'm just satisfied with shred & split fire enough. More importantly, I got only 15 FW kakophoni models

The boon bonus would be helpful in avoiding being spaw...'it' or daemon prince, although neither happened to me yet.

I'll get two more games next week against Astra Militarum & Iron Hands, respectively. I'll gladly report if something interesting happens.

[Panzer]

A thing i'm interested in....how much of a difference make the combat drugs? Would you miss them in your games if you'd take a CAD? My problem is that i'd love having Terminator and Bikes in my Rapture Batallion but i really don't want the Chaos Marine tax of a Warband if i'm already bringing at least 3 Noise Marine squads.....everything is just so damn expensive and restrictive with CSM i feel. Totally not used to it. >_>

[heptus]

IMHO, the plain CSM becomes useful with the new EC bonuses. Fearless & OS made them a good objective grabber.

 

When it comes to the firepower, though, I agree with you @stPanzer.

[FallenSoldiers]

I'm going to be trying out an 1850 game tonight of Emperor's Children vs Space Wolves.  I'm running the small Kakophoni (3 NM squads) with a biker lord with a CAD of Biker Sorcerer, 10 CSMs, a Sonic Dread, and 2 squads of bikers.  I'm very interested to see how it all pans out!  Your report gives me a good feeling!

[Panzer]

IMHO, the plain CSM becomes useful with the new EC bonuses. Fearless & OS made them a good objective grabber.

 

When it comes to the firepower, though, I agree with you @stPanzer.

I agree but if I want EC I want Noise Marines and if I have Noise Marines (3 squads even thanks to Kakophoni) i really don't feel like getting 2 more Chaos Marine Squads for the Warband even if they might be good.

 

So far my problem is that:

 - I don't want to give up on the Combat Drugs (at least not as long as i'm not convinced that they don't make much of a difference in how the army feels to play)

 - I want Noise Marines in the Kakophoni formation because it's just awesome as heck

 - I'd love some Bikes and Terminators

 - I'd also love some cyber dinos and cyber dragons

 

Means that I either go with the Rapture Battalion, pay the heavy tax of 2x Chaos Marines with MoS and get the cool daemon engines from the expensive formations.....or take a CAD and give up on the Combat Drugs and only pay the 2x MoS Cultist tax. The latter sounds the more ideal way but imo the Combat Drugs are one of the most interesting things EC got with Traitor Legions and it pains me to give up on that for everything that is not in the Kakophoni formation (a tax MoS spawn should fit in somehow i hope...).

 

In the end CSM are way more expensive and restrictive than i'm used to from my Tau and it's hard for me to deal with it. :P

[the jeske]

 

 - I don't want to give up on the Combat Drugs (at least not as long as i'm not convinced that they don't make much of a difference in how the army feels to play)

your runing too slow HQ and not HQ centric builds to use combat drugs to full effect.

[Panzer]

 

 

 - I don't want to give up on the Combat Drugs (at least not as long as i'm not convinced that they don't make much of a difference in how the army feels to play)

your runing too slow HQ and not HQ centric builds to use combat drugs to full effect.

 

...what? I haven't posted any build so far so how would you know what i may think about running?