Making Noise Marines Scream

[Bonzi]

 

 

 My friend who played for a while was trying to convince me that the box with khorne berserkers was better, because the zerkers were apparently "brokenly good," but after a few games with the bikes, I thought he was just trying to mess with me.

 

If I had a friend that did that, I'd definitely punch them. That'd be quite a bit of cash for something that isn't very good currently.

 

Bonzi, have you considered AC Havocs? They're not quite as expensive as a hadesfiend and they're harder to kill.

I have actually used AC Havocs in my old CSM lists before I started playing Noise Marines.  I found them versatile and dependable as a generalist unit.  My kvetch about them in my NM list is that at this point, every time I look at my heavy support options I always default to wanting more Obliterators.  To date my Obliterators have exceeded anything I got out of my AC Havocs (although I do recognize just how many points I'm paying for those Oblits).  I also don't have much trouble with AV10-11 so the Havocs don't bring as much for me as they do for other CSM armies.

 

Units I am really considering:

 

x6 Havocs, X4 Lascannons:  Still cheap but gives me needed Ap2 and long range anti-tank which pairs well with the blastmasters.

 

x6 Havocs: x4 Missilies, skyfire:  Gives me AAA redundancy and some good generalist fire support.

 

x6 Havocs: x4 Plasma Guns:  Yes.  The old 5th ed standby.  It wouldn't do much for anti-tank but it would plug a lot of Ap2 gaps.  Also, unlike other heavy guns, I can use these guys on the move which is important when my blastmasters can't move.

 

x3 Bikes: x2 Plasma Guns:  Dirt cheap and fast front line fire support.  Normally a frail unit, but I have so many other threats in my army I think it would be easy to keep them alive.

 

These are all units I want to give a go, but I just don't know what to bench to get them in.  Right now the Soul Grinder is on the block but I haven't been able to get another test game in to get a better feel for him.

[Capt_Darius]

How do you use the Soul Grinder for AA? Also, aren't havocs with missile launchers and skyfire super expensive?

[Bonzi]

How do you use the Soul Grinder for AA? Also, aren't havocs with missile launchers and skyfire super expensive?

Soul Grinders basic gun has a skyfire shooting profile.  Basically a heavy 3 autocannon.

 

Yes, skyfire missiles are super expensive, I would almost rather use AC Havocs and go with volume of fire for AA.  I put the unit on the list just because it is something I'd like to test out.

 

My current AA plan is basically Soul Grinder and Assault Cannon -or- TL plasma gun shooting Oblits.  It isn't super reliable.

[Capt_Darius]

Ah, I must have been looking at the older version. Gotcha.

[Malach Adonai]

Have anyone tried to combine this kind of NM based army with an allied guard detachment, or have any thoughts on the subject? Not trying to hijack the thread btw.

[Capt_Darius]

I could totally see that working. Two guard platoons with heavy weapon teams, a CCS with heavy weapon team, and a trio of Leman Russ tanks for maximum Lascannon love and template splashing. Or a Hydra could also take the Soul Grinder's place as the AA for the army.

 

Not sure if I'd go with Chimera vets, though. With a total lack of vehicular madness, all the anti-tank weaponry would be trained on them, and two Chimeras would get rocked pretty quickly.

 

I think one advantage that Daemons have over the Guard is that they're Bro's, rather than Buds, so special rules carry over, for what it's worth.

[Bonzi]

Have anyone tried to combine this kind of NM based army with an allied guard detachment, or have any thoughts on the subject? Not trying to hijack the thread btw.

 

IG are always a solid option for allies.  Things IG have that NM need is anti-tank and AP1-2.  A blobbed platoon makes a solid objective holder/tar pit if you throw in a Commisar.  Marbo is an auto-take for his ability to disrupt and cause chaos in the enemy backfield.  A couple artillery pieces to give you long range heavy hitters so there is literally no place on the board where your opponent can hide from the pain.

 

I originally was going to ally my Vostroyans into my early CSM lists, I just did Daemons because they seem more fun and fluffy.  In a competitive sense the IG book brings a lot of win to any army that adds them.

[Malach Adonai]

Thanks for the replies, it is genuinely appreciated!

I have little to no experience with them, but would like to include IG for fluff reasons. Platoon-blobs etc sound a bit expensive points-wise though - would you mind sharing a list or two that you think would do allright? 

[Capt_Darius]

Here's a question. How often do people find themselves wanting to change out their Champions' gear? I'm afraid to glue anything down, in case I want to change out his weapons, going from a naked champion to something like a Lightning Claw/Power Fist champion.

 

Thoughts?

[Ammonius]

I just build multiple champions.

[Brother Ambroz]

Or just use magnets. All my champions are magnetized (with the exception of my havoc champ).

[Capt_Darius]

I was thinking about the magnets. I think I might go that route, even though it means I need to get multiple left shoulder pads, and I hate buying from Puppet's War.

[Brother Ambroz]

You can also magnetize at the hands instead of the shoulders. That way you don't need multiple shoulderpads.

[Capt_Darius]

You can also magnetize at the hands instead of the shoulders. That way you don't need multiple shoulderpads.

That's not a bad idea, but I'd have to do it at the elbow, so I can use  lightning claws and powerfists... unless I drilled out the LC and PF so that the forearm fit inside of it.

 

I'll take a look at that.

[Bonzi]

I've managed to squeeze in one more battle before work officially destroys my life for the season.  Squared off against a horde Space Wolves drop pod army.

 

Purge the Alien & Hammer and Anvil

 

He had:

 

Wolf Lord: saga of the bear, necklace, runic armor, thunderhammer, storm shield

 

x5 10 Grey Hunters: couple double plasmas, couple double meltas and one double flame squad

x3 Drop Pods

 

x3 Thunderwolf Calvary: ???

 

Dred: multimelta

 

 

I had:

 

Lord: mos, bike, sigil of corup., power swrd, burning brand

 

5 NM: bm

5 NM: bm

5 NM: bm

 

6 Bikers: x2 melta, meltabomb, power ax

 

2 Oblits: mon

2 Oblits: mon

 

1019pts

 

Herald of S.: locus of b., lesser g., greater g. (greater aetherblade + cleave)

 

20 Nettes: alluress, greater gift (greater aetherblade)

 

Soul Grinder: mos, torrent flamer

 

1495

 

 

Over View:

 

It was a pretty brutal slaughter of Space Puppies, I had some average rolls and my opponent had some terrible rolls and he had just thrown his list together and thought he was light on points so the results need to be taken with a grain of salt.  As it was my opponent conceded on the bottom of turn 3.  Going into the game I was fairly shocked to see him put down 50+ Grey Hunters on the board and I really expected to take a lot of pain.  What I forgot was how glass cannon-ish drop pod armies are against my list...mostly pod armies are just serving up food to my counter charge squads like the bikers and nettes.  

 

On his first turn he killed one Oblit squad and took down a biker with his Pod Hunters.  In my turn I wiped out one of the Pod Hunters with my Nettes and my Bikers failed a 5" charge against his other Pod Hunters but I had already killed half of them with shooting.  My blastmasters lit into his foot-slogger squads killing a couple more out of each squad.  My Soul Grinder and Oblits went after his Thunderpuppies doing a wound.

 

On his next turn his remaining Pod failed to show, the remenants of the other Pod Hunters shot my bikers killing 1, then charged the bikes and got beaten down to one guy.  His Thunderwolfs failed a 7" charge at my NM and were left hanging out in the wind in front of my Oblits and Soul Grinder.  The rest of his footsloggers ran towards my NM.  In return I continued to  hammer his sloggers with my NM killing a couple more out of each slogger squad.  My Nettes run towards his Wolf Lords unit and get between them and my Noise Marine squads.  Oblits and Soul Grinder blast his Thunderwolves, killing his storm shield and doing one more wound.  In combat my Bikers finish off his lone Grey Hunter from the previous turn and my Soul Grinder crushes the last two thunderwolves.

 

In his third turn the last Pod still hasn't come in.  He shoots and kills three or four Nettes with his lords unit, then fails a 6" charge.  My whole army unloads at what he has left on the board.  The Soul Grinder kills a couple out of his non-lord foot squad.  My NM shoot everything them have at his lords unit taking two wounds off the lord and killing all but one Grey Hunter.  My Bikers destroy the dred with meltaguns.  My Herald + Nettes charge the lord and lone Grey Hunter.  The Herald guts the Lord and the Nettes finish off the last man and my opponent concedes.

 

In the end it would have been a tighter game if his last Pod had come in turn 2, but even then I still feel like the game would have been in my court.  It was one of those games where I feel like I didn't really win the game because his dice did it for me.

 

VP's for me:

 

Bikers + Lord: Killed one unit of Grey Hunters and one dread (2).  Herald + Nettes: Killed two units of Grey Hunters and the Wolf Lord (5).  Soul Grinder: Killed the Thunderwolves (1)

 

 

 

Lessons Learned:

 

#1.  I refocused and buffed up my list.  I cut the Seekers in order to free up points for lots of upgrades which paid off in the end.  More Nettes, another bike, the Burning Brand, a better invuln on the lord, and a better gift on my alluress all paid off.  While I had fewer units on the board, it felt like I got a lot more mileage out of the units that I buffed up.

 

#2.  Burning Brand lord killed as many guys with his flamer as he did in CC.  30pts doubled his effectiveness and I think it's going to stay.  The Brand just seems right for a Noise Marine list and makes my Bikes as dangerous to MEQ as my NM, which spreads pulls more shooting towards my bikes rather than other more frail units.

 

#3. MVP goes to the Herald + Nettes.  It was a target rich environment and they delivered a whopping 5 victory points by turn 3.  I like the Herald in the Nettes better than with the Seekers because she has more ablative wounds to protect her and the Locus of B. gets more use.

 

#4.  Bikers + Lord put in a solid performance.  Once again they took a lot of the shooting, delivered some beat down, and put out a fair amount of their own shooting pain.  I liked the extra ablative wound as it kept the unit more effective in combat after taking losses.

 

#5.  Soul Grinder finally put his hat in the ring this game.  He ate the Thunderwolves and was on his way to do the same to another unit of Grey Hunters.  I'm finally getting a feel for how to use him effectively and I think he's getting taken off the list to get benched.  On the down side I still can't hit squat with his harvester cannon.

 

#6.  Oblits and NM did their usual thing and put in a good show.

 

 

[Brother Ambroz]

What're you going to replace the grinder with if he will be benched? Good batrep and nice to see space puppies get put down. :P I'd like to see how your list does against something like deathwing though, would be interesting.

[Capt_Darius]

You're gonna bench the Soul Grinder as soon as he starts pulling some weight? Awww.

[Bonzi]

What're you going to replace the grinder with if he will be benched? Good batrep and nice to see space puppies get put down. I'd like to see how your list does against something like deathwing though, would be interesting.

Well I was thinking of Lascannon Havocs to replace the Grinder but after the show he put on this game he is going to stay in the list. As to the Deathwing, I want to play them as well. Fighting a TEQ army is the only major hurdle I haven't faced and it is the reason I am constantly looking for ways to squeeze in more AP 1-2.

You're gonna bench the Soul Grinder as soon as he starts pulling some weight? Awww.

No. Originally I was going to bench him but after this game he is staying in the list. Although, even with all the good he did this game he is still my most consistent under performer.

I think the big reason I've gotten more out of him this game is that I am getting a feel for his rules and how to use him. Remembering that MoS grants rending to all forms of attack is one of the big things that has upped his performance. An AP 4 torrent flamer is great, but a rending flamer is even better. Same thing with the Harvester Cannon...if I could ever get a hit with it. The rending also comes in handy in CC when his Iron Claw gets blown off (which happened the last game).

[Culln]

Nope, the Rending Special rule in this case is only for the Model (grinder) itself. This means your CC attacks got the rending rule but not your shooting attacks.

 

Apart form that, great thread!

[Capt_Darius]

Yeah, sadly, the guns would need Rending in the profile to get it on shooting attacks.

[Bonzi]

Yeah, sadly, the guns would need Rending in the profile to get it on shooting attacks.

Dang.

[Tenebris]

I say you should use those points on the Helldrake, it provides much more bang for your bucks and it is a versatile unit. Sure as a Noise Marine army you struggle with AP 2 and armor but I am of the idea that is much better to force rolls upon rolls than to rely on a single weapon to cover a specific field. I think on the other side that a Maulerfiend could be useful to you, it is fast, relatively cheap and when gets to the enemy armor it deals with it quite quickly and for 125 it is relatively expendable but indeed more resilient than the Soul Grinder. 

[Bonzi]

I say you should use those points on the Helldrake, it provides much more bang for your bucks and it is a versatile unit. Sure as a Noise Marine army you struggle with AP 2 and armor but I am of the idea that is much better to force rolls upon rolls than to rely on a single weapon to cover a specific field. I think on the other side that a Maulerfiend could be useful to you, it is fast, relatively cheap and when gets to the enemy armor it deals with it quite quickly and for 125 it is relatively expendable but indeed more resilient than the Soul Grinder. 

 

Well I know the Helldrake would be the best thing I could put in my list but I'm just not a fan of fliers. My list would be absolutely brutal if I squeezed in the drake but I just can't bring myself to do it.

 

As for the Mauler, it actually isn't more durable than the Soul Grinder.  It has lower AV, fewer hull points, fewer base attacks, and lacks the skyfire option of the Grinder.  It is faster in the movement phase, has a minor chance to regen a hull point, and has better rules against tanks.  I'll pay the extra 10pts for the Grinder any day just for that AV 13.  AV 12 walkers can get torn apart by krak grenades, I've done it myself.  Getting stuck in with an AV13 walker is entirely more scary for the basic Marine squad.

[illiastre]

I find this thread helpful. Keep it up.

 

Well... good thing that I lost my biase againt the Helturkey; I use to find it fugly, model-wise. I read that the dragon is cheesy effective so I added it to my list. Its not that I like to cheese my opponents but from where I am I find that most players are very competitive. Something that I like. And from their mouths they would say, "Your opponent will cheese you so its best to cheese them back."

 

I'm not really competitive in the sense that I like joining tournaments but I like playing against tournament lists. Best way to learn is to fight the best and learn from mistakes. Its hard for me to win against them as I'm the noob there but I dont mind as long as I have fun. Besides, there are a lot of counters against the Turkey now.

[minigun762]

Good game. I'm somewhat surprised you mauled the GH squads so easily. They're not pushovers.