Making Noise Marines Scream

[Bonzi]

Good game. I'm somewhat surprised you mauled the GH squads so easily. They're not pushovers.

 

Well, at the end of the day GH have the same basic statline as any SM which means blastmasters destroy them wholesale.  Also, when face with a 20 squad Nette squad lead by a Herald, counter-charging GH's count for nothing since the whole squad is dead before they can swing.  The Herald and the Aluress alone accounted for 3/4's of a GH squad and that was before the other 18 Nettes were rolled.

 

I think the difficulty for most standard builds facing me is that min/maxing doesn't work as well against my list.  I have fast assault and static gunline as well as TEQ, MEQ, and GEQ statlines in my army.  My army is so varied that the traditional habit of min/maxing by most players doesn't work well against me because if someone brings only rock...well my list always has some paper in it.  

 

It also didn't help that his reserve rolls and charge rolls were terrible.

[minigun762]

.

I think the difficulty for most standard builds facing me is that min/maxing doesn't work as well against my list.  I have fast assault and static gunline as well as TEQ, MEQ, and GEQ statlines in my army.  My army is so varied that the traditional habit of min/maxing by most players doesn't work well against me because if someone brings only rock...well my list always has some paper in it.  

In my mind, that is the main advantage of a properly built balance, take all comers list. You are never reduced to just using one tactic or relying on one crutch unit. Instead you have a variety of threats with a variety of options.

[Max_Gore]

Great thread. I've always been a Khorne man, but I'm extremely tempted by Slaanesh.

 

I like fluffy, but powerful lists. Seeing Noise Marines working so well with Daemonettes is inspiring. Reminds me of the good ole days when Daemons were actually in our Codex.

 

The MSU BM units are so damn effiecient that it leaves a lot of room for toys. Pretty cheap army to build too if you are handy with the bits...

[Nusquam]

Awesome thread. I just recently got into Noise Marines and am loving how effective they are.

 

I just started using Noise Marines with a Skyshield Landing Pad. Last game I had 10 NM, IoE, 2 BM, as well as a MoN Grinder/Phlem, and Hadesfiend on top of it. All being buffed by a Tzeentch Herald, with Prescience and so on. It was amazing. I faced down Templar tide/Triple Vindicator to great success. Hadesfiend with Prescience and Daemonforge is no joke, the Grinder had a constant 2+ coversave and the NM's having a 3+, 4++ and 5+ FNP I only lost three the whole game as my cultists ran around snagging objectives while my NM's, DP, Fiend and Grinder dished out devastation.

 

I played a similar match against Tau before with a list I just threw together but I wanted to test the Skyshield. Being able to deny Tau cover save-negating markerlights and weapons(SMS are nasty) was great. His Riptide was barely doing anything and hurting itself more than I was hurting it. I wish I had NM's in that game and I know I would have tabled him, but he stole initiative, roleld like a golden god for saves and his all objectives magaed to roll for the Halve Charge Range type. It didn't end well.

 

I digress...

 

I like the idea of MSBMU's. I have another lists made up with that in mind. It is also shooting based with assault elements, and some Tzeentch trickery thrown in(Divination is game-changing). Also trying a Juggerlord with Spawn, 'hounds and 'Zerkers to push the line while my Grinder, Hadesfiend and Tzeentch herald/Horrors on the Skyshield wih Cultists quadaegis and MSU BM NM squads spread through my deployment zone. My only concern are Drop-Pods.

[Bonzi]

Hey guys, glad to see more people taking a look at the thread and getting something out of it.  As of now I'm pretty much swamped in work/life so I won't be making much battle report progress for the next month or so.  I do hope to finish a few painting/conversion projects in the interim and possibly compile a brief tactica to be submitted for sticky in this forum.

 

In the meantime feel free to submit comments on your own experiences with Noise Marines to keep the discussion going.  I won't have time to do battle reports but I will still have time to talk over ideas and tactics in this thread.   My overall goal with this blog/thread is to create a positive and informative source of information for Slaanesh CSM players (given how most of the CSM forums are bogged down in doom and gloom).

[Vesper]

It has been a pleasant read and an informative topic to me too. Glad you still have the will to keep it updated !

[Rabidweasel]

Good reports here mate. I've stolen your demon allies ideas and used them to great effect! I used to run two types of NM squads, shooty ones and ones tooled up for CC. Now as you well know doing that eats points quickly. But using demonettes means i can get more bodies on the field and the chance of rending is just icing on the cake.

I'm still using seekers tho, as i find the speed and the threat level they offer tends to get people scared and they completely ignore the other elements of my lists which is a bad mistake!

 

I am so thankful for the FAQ allowing us to field a BM in squads of 5 again, that made me a very happy worshiper of Slaanesh! In my 1750 list i run four squads, and between them can kill off most threatening units before they reach my lines. Plus there's the added bonus that at a push they can still take down high AV threats as well if my dedicated AT fails. I used to love sonic blasters and in high points games i probably will equip the three other guys with them, my reason for this is the silly scout move Dark Angels bikes can do, at least with an extra 9 ignoring cover shots i have a chance of taking some bikes out before they assault.

 

I had gone off using oblits, but I've now found my love of them again. Especially the fact they can have assault cannons for a turn of shooting now. My Meta used to be mainly marines, but has recently shifted to Xenos armies so they tend to eat through enemy ranks regardless of what weapon i need to use, plus are still great of power punching people in the face if they get close, i tend to run two squads of two with a MoN.

 

So for an army that apparently "can't shoot well" The look on one of our Tau players face when his "Superior" shooting army got shot off the table was priceless!

[Phytoon]

Whoever said that MEQs can't shoot well needs to take a statistics course, lol. I haven't fought against Tau in greater than 500 points, but they don't have anything that I would classify as strictly "superior," so that perception seems slightly misplaced.

 

My favorite thing mechanically about these noise marines is that pinning check from the blast masters. I've only ever had it work twice, but it's absolutely crippling to make a unit go to ground. Of course the Tau have a commander that can make them stand up on the start of their turn, but that won't save them when almost all the weapons in my squads will ignore their armor and cover, and they don't have invuln saves for the most part.

[Nusquam]

Whoever said that MEQs can't shoot well needs to take a statistics course, lol. I haven't fought against Tau in greater than 500 points, but they don't have anything that I would classify as strictly "superior," so that perception seems slightly misplaced.

 

I think the person whom you are referencing's sarcasm was lost on you. Also you have that view because you've only fought them at low points. Face them at 1.5k+ and you'll realize how out-gunned you really are, though marines are tougher and good in CC blahblah and so on.

 

Anyway

 

I had more success with two 5 man BM unit's. I had an Obliterator near each of them with a hadesfiend inbetweem while my Juggerlord/Spawn ran up to RIP AND TEAR with cultsts and beserkers, so my opponents target priority was difficult, while my NMs, Oblits, Hadesfiend provided great fire support. No Skyshield pad this time, didn't have a shooty Soul Grinder, large NM unit and wasnt fighting Tau.

[Phytoon]

Well I guess you're right. I'm just kinda used to Tau players taking somewhat of an elitist attitude towards their armies, but that's probably just my area.

[Bonzi]

I had more success with two 5 man BM unit's. I had an Obliterator near each of them with a hadesfiend inbetweem while my Juggerlord/Spawn ran up to RIP AND TEAR with cultsts and beserkers, so my opponents target priority was difficult, while my NMs, Oblits, Hadesfiend provided great fire support. No Skyshield pad this time, didn't have a shooty Soul Grinder, large NM unit and wasnt fighting Tau.

 

I think this echos some of my experience playing Noise Marines and highlights one of the forgotten benefits of a Marine statline.  Marines, both Loyalist and Traitor, have the ability to be flexible in their shooting and CC rolls.  Having that flexibility in your list makes your army much tougher to fight against than the min/maxing spam that was so in vouge in the 5th and remains so in the 6th ed.  Having a CC only or shooting only Marines army is to pay points for a statline you are not using to it's fullest.  Xeno armies are better specialists than we are and rarely will we beat them at their own game.  A good CSM or SM list embraces the flexibility inherent in a Marine army.

[minigun762]

  A good CSM or SM list embraces the flexibility inherent in a Marine army.

 

Too often we hold the MEQ up as the standard and in doing so, its easy to lose track of the fact that it's a solid, all purpose unit when compared against everything out there.

[Squirrelloid]

I was wondering what you thought about not fielding the obliterators, or not fielding them with Mark of Nurgle?

 

I'll be honest, if I start chaos (and i've certainly toyed with it in the past... I have a box of noise marines and a box of the nice sexy daemonettes that want something done with them), I'd want to play a pure cult army, probably a true Emperor's Children force.  From that perspective, that Noise Marines perform so well is great, but you seem to be relying an awful lot on not only non-slaanesh units, but units dedicated to another god entirely!  Do you think there is any hope for a purer army dedicated wholly to Slaanesh?

 

(Of course, at the rate I'm painting the models I do have for my loyalist marines, there may be yet another chaos 'dex out before i'm ready to even think about another army).

[Brother Ambroz]

If you really want to play fluffy, then I'd go with unmarked oblits but you'd be sacrificing alot of competitive play for just a little mark. It'd be easier to go with counts as. MoS does absolutely nothing on oblits. Alternatively you could go with a bunch of unmarked havocs but they're not nearly as versatile as obliterators are.

[minigun762]

You could justify MoN by saying it represents sloth and gluttony excesses.

[Capt_Darius]

You could justify MoN by saying it represents sloth and gluttony excesses.

Or that they wish to experience ALL the plagues, or that they've put themselves through so much pain that, like Noise Marines and sound, they just don't really feel it anymore.

[Bonzi]

I was wondering what you thought about not fielding the obliterators, or not fielding them with Mark of Nurgle?

 

I'll be honest, if I start chaos (and i've certainly toyed with it in the past... I have a box of noise marines and a box of the nice sexy daemonettes that want something done with them), I'd want to play a pure cult army, probably a true Emperor's Children force.  From that perspective, that Noise Marines perform so well is great, but you seem to be relying an awful lot on not only non-slaanesh units, but units dedicated to another god entirely!  Do you think there is any hope for a purer army dedicated wholly to Slaanesh?

 

(Of course, at the rate I'm painting the models I do have for my loyalist marines, there may be yet another chaos 'dex out before i'm ready to even think about another army).

 

I'm not terribly snobby or dogmatic about the fluff/rules provided by GW (given that it changes with no rhyme or reason every edition).  Mark of Nurgle represents +1 T.  In fluff terms for a Slaanesh army that toughness can be explained by any number of excesses that a devotee of Slaanesh would embrace.  I don't like to limit my army just because the codex writers imagination was limited to Nurgle = tough, Slaanesh = fast.

 

For myself, I have painted my Oblits the same pink/dark pink/brass color scheme as the rest of my army.  I envision them as Noise Marines obsessed with becoming the perfect weapon.  To that end they have endured grotesque amounts of surgical enhancement and genetic alteration/mutation at the hands of madmen like Fabius Bile in the quest to become one with their guns.  The result is that they have ended up as something tougher than a typical Oblit would be.  In appearance all is unified, in play it all meshes well, in fluff it all makes sense, in rules terms I play MoN Oblits in a NM army.  I'm ok with that.

 

You can run non-MoN Oblits but you will be taking a hit in effectiveness and competitive levels of play.  At the end of the day, MoS is a very poor mark for heavy weapons platforms like Havocks and Oblits so you either run unmarked of you think of a fluff reason to explain different marks in the army.   All I can say is that GW's fluff is often childish, simplistic, and derivative....don't let their fluff be a reason that your army must be gimped.

[Ultraboy]

Great thread Bonzi.  I have one question to ask you: "How many Daemonnettes would you recommend in a unit?"

[DominikB]

Great thread. I've always been a Khorne man, but I'm extremely tempted by Slaanesh.

 

I like fluffy, but powerful lists. Seeing Noise Marines working so well with Daemonettes is inspiring. Reminds me of the good ole days when Daemons were actually in our Codex.

 

The MSU BM units are so damn effiecient that it leaves a lot of room for toys. Pretty cheap army to build too if you are handy with the bits...

Me too tbh, and I love the lucien model. Tempted to buy some bikes for my force tbh

 

Question to the poster why do you use a Power Axe and not a Fist on the bike?

[Azadul]

Wow, I really was all doom and gloom. I had tried out full sonic weapon squads, bikes, demon princes, defilers, oblits. and had no luck with a coherent army. This thread has turned that around. Thankyou very much.

 

Had a game last night, with a shamefully similar list to yours, but it was a last minture 1500 game, and normally only play 2000. so it was a list that was on my mind, and i had the models....

 

Anywho, I have a couple of questions about gameplay with the list.

 

 

First up, the daemon allies. The soulgrinder is great, soaked up about 10 lascannon shots before dying, but managed to take out a unit of grey hunters and 2 razorbacks in the process. Great fire magnet, does his job well. My question - is it really worth it to give him the mark of slaanesh? he has a good weapons loadout, so i see him wanting to shoot almost everyturn, even the first. Do you play him more as a close combat threat? Using that first turn to get to close range ASAP?

 

The daemonettes, do you deploy or deepstrike normally? [Played two games, although in the first they didnt turn up (even with warpstrider!) as game was won at end of turn 2. The firepower in this list is amazing, those small blastmaster squads are awesome.] Anywho, back to the daemonettes. They die, VERY easily, and seem to want to get the charge of to be effective. The one game they did arrive, I put them on a flank, to threaten 2 objectives, whilst being close enough to charge the turn after. The space wolf player had 2 6-man grey hunter squads move towards and fire on them, and then charged the end of the remaining line of daemonettes with a lone member of a shot-to-pieces squad. He won.

 

The demons seem very soft, and easy to kill. For 310 points for the unit, it seems like a large investment. A lot of armies out there will easily be able to deal with it.

 

 

For that same 300 points, is there anything else that you would suggest including? Like having a smaller unit of daemonettes to deepstrike late in the game to just go to ground on an objective, and then including a keeper of secrets? having the soulgrinder and KoS together creates a lot of threat, whilst taking the focus of my more important obliterators and noise marines.

 

 

Anywho, thats all for now. Let me know your thoughts :)

 

 

Thanks again for this thread!

[minigun762]

I personally wouldn't give a Slaaneshi Grinder a gun. You're paying points to run fast and assault better.  The stock autocannon is a decent backup gun but AV13 in assault is very safe.

[Bonzi]

Great thread Bonzi. I have one question to ask you: "How many Daemonnettes would you recommend in a unit?"

No less than 15 as they get shredded by shooting and rending relies on volume of attack. I like a lot of extra bodies to make sure my Herald makes it to combat. Several games have seen little more than the Herald, Aluress, and a couple Nettes make it to CC...and then the killing starts and it all tips in my favor.

Great thread. I've always been a Khorne man, but I'm extremely tempted by Slaanesh.

I like fluffy, but powerful lists. Seeing Noise Marines working so well with Daemonettes is inspiring. Reminds me of the good ole days when Daemons were actually in our Codex.

The MSU BM units are so damn effiecient that it leaves a lot of room for toys. Pretty cheap army to build too if you are handy with the bits...

Me too tbh, and I love the lucien model. Tempted to buy some bikes for my force tbh

Question to the poster why do you use a Power Axe and not a Fist on the bike?

I use the Ax over the fist because its cheap. The Ax is cheaper, gets the +1 attack bonus from a mundane pistol and in the majority of situations is nearly as good as the fist for what I need it to do (kill terminators). It also means I have less points on the line when I get sucked into a challenge against something that swings at initiative 2+.

Wow, I really was all doom and gloom. I had tried out full sonic weapon squads, bikes, demon princes, defilers, oblits. and had no luck with a coherent army. This thread has turned that around. Thankyou very much.

Had a game last night, with a shamefully similar list to yours, but it was a last minture 1500 game, and normally only play 2000. so it was a list that was on my mind, and i had the models....

Anywho, I have a couple of questions about gameplay with the list.

First up, the daemon allies. The soulgrinder is great, soaked up about 10 lascannon shots before dying, but managed to take out a unit of grey hunters and 2 razorbacks in the process. Great fire magnet, does his job well. My question - is it really worth it to give him the mark of slaanesh? he has a good weapons loadout, so i see him wanting to shoot almost everyturn, even the first. Do you play him more as a close combat threat? Using that first turn to get to close range ASAP?

The daemonettes, do you deploy or deepstrike normally? [Played two games, although in the first they didnt turn up (even with warpstrider!) as game was won at end of turn 2. The firepower in this list is amazing, those small blastmaster squads are awesome.] Anywho, back to the daemonettes. They die, VERY easily, and seem to want to get the charge of to be effective. The one game they did arrive, I put them on a flank, to threaten 2 objectives, whilst being close enough to charge the turn after. The space wolf player had 2 6-man grey hunter squads move towards and fire on them, and then charged the end of the remaining line of daemonettes with a lone member of a shot-to-pieces squad. He won.

The demons seem very soft, and easy to kill. For 310 points for the unit, it seems like a large investment. A lot of armies out there will easily be able to deal with it.

For that same 300 points, is there anything else that you would suggest including? Like having a smaller unit of daemonettes to deepstrike late in the game to just go to ground on an objective, and then including a keeper of secrets? having the soulgrinder and KoS together creates a lot of threat, whilst taking the focus of my more important obliterators and noise marines.

Anywho, thats all for now. Let me know your thoughts

Thanks again for this thread!

#1. The answer to the Soul Grinder is that I use him as a frontline pressure unit. MoS is fantastic for the added run range and reliability that a CC unit needs and I throw on the torrent flamer because it is fantastic against hordes, which the SG suffers against in its base loadout. The torrent flamer is an excess but for the way I play my army the MoS is a must. A lot of the time a MoS grinder can be used as mobile cover for your Nettes and as a good fire magnet. As a bonus...the MoS rending comes in handy when your iron claw gets blown off.

#2. I haven't DS'd my Nettes because I find they are fast enough on foot that they can get into the fight before DS units can. Plus if I deploy them on the board they are a huge deterrent to drop pod armies because they will murder anything that drops into my deployment zone.

#3. A lone Grey Hunter beating Nettes in CC is bad luck rather than a bad unit. One reason I keep my Herald in my Nettes unit is the initiative step rule for combat. After each initiative step your Nettes can pile in another 2". Unless you have your Nettes single file your should be able to get at least three to swing before the Hunter. Factor in Locus of Beguilement on the Herald and the standard marine should be dead before they can swing. All that said....bad dice can happen and nothing can change that. I would say that at 1500pts if he had two GH squads double tapping you and a lone survivor from another squad make the charge...that's a lot of points dedicated to killing the Nettes which leaves your Blastmasters to do their thing.

#3.1 always try to play with the idea that no unit in my army is precious. I will often times play my bikers or my nettes as expendable pawns to draw out my opponent so that other parts of my army can dominate. This style of play is in pretty heavy contrast to the deathstar/one trick pony philosophy that is so much more flashy and gets more attention on the internet. It's hard to watch a unit get obliterated without making any obvious gains and still feel good about your army, but when you keep your eye on the big picture it pays off in the end.

#4. Daemons are soft to shooting but they are murder to combat. My Noise Marines are tough to shooting, murder at range and soft in CC. Don't avoid a unit because there is a counter to it (there is a counter to every single unit in the game). Take a unit because it does what you need it to do or fills a gap in your army better than anything else. My Nettes are like tissue paper, but they add mobility and close combat prowess to what would normally be a static gunline. The synergy they bring goes far beyond what they could do in isolation. Are Nettes right for every list? No. I can think of many lists they would be total crap in...but that doesn't make them a bad unit. At the end of the day there is nothing else I could spend that 300+ points on that would do what my Nettes and Herald do for me and that is why I take them.

#5. A Keeper is a huge threat, but I think they are too flimsy without a lot of other MC's on the board grabbing attention (which doesn't work in my list). On top of that, you end up taking a small unit of Nettes as a tax to get the Keeper. The small Nettes are easily killed via shooting and are not terribly threatening on their own. I would rather get a big unit of Nettes and a cheap Herald which is deadly on her own AND makes the Nettes better to boot. It just works better in my build (although my build is not the only build).

I personally wouldn't give a Slaaneshi Grinder a gun. You're paying points to run fast and assault better. The stock autocannon is a decent backup gun but AV13 in assault is very safe.

I find the torrent is a decent upgrade for the grinder but you are right, at the end of the day a cheap and cheerful MoS Grinder is very cost effective for what it can do. I would never take warp gaze as it costs too much for the Grinders poor BS. I would take phlegm, but only on a MoN Grinder.

[minigun762]

I think the Torrent weapon would be great on a DoTz, since you aren't spending points on movement boosters. Just walking forward with two AP4 weapons is a good all purpose threat.

[Prot]

You could justify MoN by saying it represents sloth and gluttony excesses.

 

Yea I agree. I mean any 'drug' could induce some factor of enhancing pain 'enjoyment' for the model in question.  You gotta be fair to yourself, the codex really doesn't tell anyone how to define a legion so any restriction you put on yourself comes from within. The codex doesn't really recognize legions (we've discussed this to death) and while that is viewed with negativity, the positive angle is you can do whatever you want and it's totally legal.

 

The only line I can't cross is Khornate HQ's and Sorcs. I don't know why, but that's my line in the sand! :)

[Phytoon]

That's an interesting restriction you place on yourself, as it's the same one I have. I can't stand the flavor of Khorne Flakes, as the whole "blood for the blood god" seems a bit too primitive, I guess. Also, Khorne sorcerers don't exist, so that's a good thing ;)

 

As far as flavor in my list, I can run just about anything and justify it because my guys are a rock band. I've got the noise marines as the band, and everything else is support crew, so it makes sense that I can have a daemon prince of Tzeentch behind the scenes doing managerial stuff, or have my big tough obliterators of Nurgle being the bouncers. What it really comes down to for deciding what to put in your army, you just have to ask yourself what you want in your list, and then come up with a reason for it to be there. You can even paint them all the same, but just apply the mechanical changes (as long as you tell your opponent what's what). That's one of the things I really like about space marines in general - unless you're playing a specific army that exists in a story or something (ravenwing, for example) you can do whatever you want as long as you don't codex-hop. 

 

Also, Bonzi, I fear I may have been subliminally influenced by your list, as without referencing your list, I made a 1500 point army that looks almost exactly like it. Of course, reading your reports, it's hard to deny its effectiveness. I'm just wondering if it's feasible to give a herald of slaanesh psychic powers, or if I should save the points to give my biker lord a power fist on top of his lightning claw? My lord has yet to disappoint me, and I haven't played with demon allies yet, so I don't want to change too much all at once.