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Well, I started a thread on the 23rd of July but with the DB crash and roll back dogs ate it along with my homework.

The beauty is you now will get a lot of WIP pictures like some rapid time lapse across a fortnight without my inane rambling. That won't last :smile.:

The downside is there will be lots of pictures in one post, but not much I can do about that as I am having to play catch up.

The Wall of Bronze Beasts


Printed scans from my copies of the IA books for inspiration and direction.

The First Five


Gotta start somewhere and as I want half in Mk VIII a squad in my take on that armour was the obvious starting point. At this point I was pleased.

Mk VIII Chests


How I did Mk VIII chest so the abdomen cables aren't exposed. I obviously could only do so many before I ran out so you'll start to see white bits as I lifted a cast of my modified chest plates.

Losing Focus


Rather than staying on point I wondered what the second squad in MK VIII would look like as I intend to give them Tigrus bolt guns. Great but still not one squad built :smile.:

Focus still lost...


And what they would look like with a plasma gun, Ryza pattern of course. Second squad again, still off with the fairies...

Standing on things is cool


Lorenzen said so (at least I think he did long ago). And he is right. And he is doing Minotaurs too! Although I won't have bare flesh anywhere on mine, too page 3 exposing themselves and helms are more menacing. Note I went back to squad one again at this point. I was going to make this guy the combat squad leader but didn't which has led to problems (see later). Arguably you could say I'd regained my focus...

Captain who became Sciron



...but you'd be wrong. An idea that escaped and broke focus. On the original thread the consensus was the name Sciron suited him more than Carcinus. When I say consensus like one person responded. Both are spare names from the FW brass etch sheet. I like him, pity I'll hardly ever use him. He is more progressed now and I will finish him for Grotsmasha;s challenge as a "funsies".

Finally the Heavy


I stopped procrastinating and prevaricating and finally built the squad heavy weapon. Quite happy with this, so I put all my avoidance energies into the special weapon bloke.

Sons of Medusa


No, really. Whilst avoiding doing the flamer I started fiddling with Sons of Medusa. I should write a book called Focus Lost or something.

Flamers need bunkers to burn




So, Armies on Parade and themed terrain is well important, more so than having an actual squad built, so I am doing this in tandem. Big, isn't it? Note I will be attacking this as Minotaurs so it'll be ouch time for me. Fits with them perfectly of course thus me doing it. And the fact I had the FW Siege of Vraks moduler resin trench stuff lying about gathering dust. More on this later but I'll be picking up the foam board and ply tomorrow.

The gang is not all here


Nine. Sort of like the Nazgul except not. Flamer guy all sinister on the right side. Missile launcher man strangely giving out quests.



Close up of too many to be a combat squad and not remotely loaded right even if they where.



And too few for a combat squad but at least a close up of elusive flamer chap.

Note I cannot make my mind up on the last bolter man, who may also be squad leader, so I'll make another nine and then decide which one goes with these guys and then give the others Tigrus, then vacillate for ages over who gets to be Sergeant Aristophane, and then avoid building their plasma gunner and heavy bolterer for ages whilst building a full 6 ft. by 2 ft. trench system.

However tonight is gym, then selling my FW Reaver on eBay, and then adding bulbs to all their ankles.

Edited by Marius Perdo
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Good to see you making things again, even if your focus is all over the place! :) Great minds do indeed think alike (and i'm harassing Dargor to do some Minotaur stuff for a campaign too)  i like the amount of mk8 stuff you've littered throughout them, its something i was pondering on how id approach as im not fond of the standard "mk8" torso.


keep focused, remember that the shoulder pads are a different colour of bronze to the rest of the armour, and get painting!

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@Lorenzen: The focus loss is a bit misleading (for comic effect) as it was over two weeks, but yeah, I had a lot of ideas all at once :smile.: I'll bore the tears off everyone in a minute with composition and why so much Mk VIII.

Regards the shoulders, I know, the wall of Bronze Beasts shows all! Although without rims I have found (from Badab books) you treat the top part of the Errant shoulder as the inset, and the lower smaller bit as the rim. In some cases.

As for paint when I have 30 tacticals built, and transports, and three themed objective markers (breached lines with lots of dead Minotaurs with siege assault load outs and mantlets) I will. Airbrushing is great for loads but I find it tedious to clean after one miniature.

Okay, if you don't like reading, rambly stuff, or are a mental health professional look away now and wait for a later post.

Why Minotaurs?

I could try and explain but I think some pictures and videos of me should explain why. Don't worry, I am mostly dressed and they are not interpretive dance routines expressing my angst over Mk VII versus Mk VIII armour.



And if you like running you can do things for charity. A medusa was nesting nearby.

So I like marines. I like ancient greek stuff. I like spears. I like shields. I think the Asterion model is rather good. 'nuff said really :smile.:

The Goal

The over arching goal is to make various marine armies that are characterful and play a certain way and use a reduced selection of units that fit with any background on them. I'll talk about others when I finish this project and start another marine army but for this army....

the Minotaurs "rules" are:

  • IA books to be quite literally a reference (which drives everything else) aka the wall of Bronze Beasts
  • thematically based on a siege army list so no scouts etc but as not an actual vanguard army (although it may be some day) there will be pods/rhinos etc
  • at least half of the grunts in Mk VIII
  • a given squad will be in the same Mk, I won't be mixing armour, and each squad will all use the same pattern bolter/bolt pistol, none of this relic status focus (I'll do that in other armies)
  • others in Mk VII, or Mk III if high intensity zones, but no Mk II, V, or VI and absolutely no studs (odd for me I know)
  • Mk IV reserved for veterans, command squads, tooled up sergeants etc
  • no purity seals (cut them off) and little bling or parchments etc as they fight by attrition and have the life expectancy of a fairground goldfish
  • an unhealthy amount of Ryza pattern plasma weapons, I rarely take them so having any at all is a big step for me
  • Greekness only on veterans, termies, command squads etc with it increasing the more senior they are i.e. I'll do terminator squad Zelaos with hoplon style storm shields but that is it, crest/pteruges/boeotian shields/dipylons/hoplons etc are for the leaders not the fodder
  • Asterion is a must as his chapter tactics defines them, and that is why all the bases have marine helms that will be painted in the colours of those they have stomped on (and be added to every time I play another loyalist marine member at the club)
  • Themed terrain to complement, from the giant trench system to objective markers of overrun FOPs etc with breached sandbags and lots of dead Minotaurs with siege army gear
  • there will be Hesperex pattern power axes, even though I don't really like them, but they are in both IAs, which I didn't get until I had the "Duh" moment and got it
  • FW toys, like my Storm Eagle (Roc) Pattern and Damocles, will be assigned to this project as folks fancy seeing what they do, they are in the most recent IA specifically for Minotaurs in some cases, and they fit in best with this army (other FW toys will go to other armies)

So, the constraints in all their longwinded tedium. However the future is but a month away. So, Centurions.

I'll be honest, the idea of bronze assault Centurions smashing through bunkers and burning out trenches does work for me. I had to stare at the horrid yellowness for ages (and I like Imperial Fists) for it to happen but something did go click. The only other army I can visualise them fitting in is Sons of Medusa or Iron Hands, and then those being the big gun Devastator ones, but I will get some as assault ones for my Minotaurs. I have absolutely no idea how a Fast Attack choice that is meant to assault and looks too big for transports (specifically with Assault vehicle), probably can Deep Strike (and stand there like lemons), and has Slow and Purposeful written all over them, will actually play but visually, from what I have seen, I'm in.

So much for not buying anything new :smile.:

Another aside is grav weapons. If a tactical squad can take them I'll probably put them on a squad in Mk III, as I intended to use the FW boarding shield stuff/graviton gun on Mk IIIs so it is just how my head is working around that. Also I'll be building them as the last tactical squad, as I have to ponder how to approach magnetising mantlets, but as more information comes out about the release I'll be able to make an informed decision. A misinformed or uninformed decision is always a bad decision, so I still find it weird how GW act like we need security clearance to be told about what they want to sell us :smile.: If everything else I fancied buying that was new like this I'd tell them to shove it, whether it was Sony or my local restaurants and their new dishes.

Right, enough rambling but it sets the baseline (again) I suppose. I am off to cast ankle pods for several dozen Mk VIII suits and hope third time is a charm for WIP threads.

Edited by Marius Perdo
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@Batu: Regards thought, sort of :) Other abandoned projects helped and as far as bronze and greek stuff goes I'd already done that. Reading the Badab books is always a pleasure anyway. It sort of all came together about a month ago and I just went with it i.e. ordered stuff from FW. However if I have given the illusion that I have a well thought out project then so be it ;)


Got a great deal today on the plywood for the 2'x2' sections for the trenches (three of), and 8' x 4' of foamboard (six 2' x 2' section and a 4' x 2' which leave plenty for other terrain projects), and several litres of brown and grey masonry paint. All for £32 as a special deal. They clearly recognised me from the local rag, so running dressed as a Greek has its benefits. Either that or they thought I was a nutter and wanted me out of the shop ASAP as I was using my starey Moloch face again.


Trimmed and filed all the resin trench parts for pinning, washed the FW residue off, and used the hot water to re-shape out kinks etc.


Started handling bits for Sergeant Geryon (from Badab book, basically Mk III with a Mk IV helmet and a Mk VII power pack). Trying to find a tool to carve the Psi symbol into his chest. Failing with that, does anyone know of any...small carving tools I guess that might be used for woodwork or somesuch?


I want to make him hold his power axe in a loose two-handed grip a bit like Korvydae, but the groin plate means the torso can only rotate so far. Also, even with the rapier crews and the boarding captains to butcher for alternate Mk III arms it might require a fair bit of work to amend them. We'll see, I should have a picture tomorrow.


Still building the second lot of Mk VIIIs but Lorenzen's excellent thread is putting me to shame so I want to get Geryon done as a tester. If I don't paint something soon Ivanus will throw me in a penitent cell :)

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Until I saw this topic, I was seriously unimpressed with Mark VIII. However, seeing them en-masse, they're growing on me. Slowly :laugh.: I prefer the ones with the "cut away" than the "regular" ones. I especially like the shoulder guards (Company Champion ones?) as they suit the look of the Chapter :smile.: The poses are nice too. Each Marine has a sense of movement, which is a lot more difficult to pull off than it seems.


Have you decided on the specific paints you're going to use for the Bronze?

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that squad looks immense dude, I cant wait to see them in full colors, awesome job on the left handed weapons as well

I never noticed that! :blink.: They look very good as well. Not often you see "left handed" Marines :smile.:
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I think you're absolutely bang on in that the Centurions would suit a Minotaurs army, conceptually. You've gone to a great amount of effort to ensure that your models look and feel the part so I'm very hopeful you're planning something special with the Centurions already, as I'm not sure they're going to look much good out of the box next to the well-converted models you already have. Some ideas my gaming groups already had include making the helm area completely enclosed (check out the upcoming Puppetswar Terminator-count-as-models for inspiration) and spacing out the legs by as much as an inch - half an inch at the ankle and half around the knee. It would make the models look a lot more fluid, faster, and more lethal in my opinion.


Really enjoying your log, by the way. Been hoping to source a ton of Mk. VIII bits for my Sons of Tyr for ages and your thread's encouraged me to redouble my efforts.

Edited by BrotherCaptainArkhan
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Good work!  I love the level of attention that's going into these, I was so tempted to do minotaurs myself.  Were you thinking of making matching objective markers too?


Reason I ask, as siege assault vanguard lists have a special marker to give to the opponent, I'm sure you would do something really impressive.

Edited by disease
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Big reply time I guess :

@Aquilanus: Thanks. The shoulders are company champion. I had ten pairs and I have cast others to finish the project off (probably 40 odd in MK VIIII in total). Gone with these shoulders as the Badab War book shows them on the MK VIII Errant diagram. As for bronze, still pondering it.

@masters of ultramar: Ta. I always throw a few sinisters in for going around a corner a different way. I always think of marines becoming ambidextrous. I try to keep it subtle, which clearly worked on Aqulianus as he didn't notice until you pointed it out :smile.:

@BrotherCaptainArkham: Thanks. I really want to get hands on with a Centurion srpue. I am sure I'll end up modifying it regardless but I hope ideas spring forth when we get our hands on them :smile.:

@Lorenzen: Not much, just enough to take a wash and show up. Thanks for the advice, I shall rummage around in the missus' sewing box soon. I am sure she'll be overjoyed, I'll just blame you :wink:

@disease: Themed objectives are on the cards and the vanguard siege objective will be a biggy. Breached defences, mangled corpses, razorwire, dragon's teeth, and sandbags. That sort of thing.

Been working on two mniatures. One I have pictures off, the other I have scribbled and had a list of parts that I am fiddling about with to see what I fancy.

Veteran Sergeant Geryon

From page 108 Badab Part 2 top right.







Different poses with different legs giving different stances and hopefully purpose. Unfortunately I like them all. Oh dear, I didn't expect that. I'll have a lot of Executioner helmets with bloody pools under them from when he fought in the Pale Stars. Amuses me to have him decapitating Executioners with an axe. I really need to sort his thumb on the right hand, it is bugging me, but I am waiting for the initial attaching to fully dry.

I have cut the arms off a boarding captain and I'll play with posing on that as well, which will be an axe in one hand and a bolt pistol in the other. I'll have to settle on one but at least I can use the poses for other miniatures.

As an aside this guy was historically taken to the Emperor's Grace at Lampan in the Maelstrom during the Badab War. However a Contemptor Dreadnought, Ancient (not a Hecaton) Geryon saved Moloch on the fight on the Tomb Ship so to me it is the same guy and I'll paint a Contemptor later to reflect that. As for colour historically this guy just has athe black stripe of a veteran sergeant, the red bull chapter symbol on his left shoulder and a white triple lambda on the right (and the to be carved Psi symbol on his chest). So he'll be a tester for bronze. Guess I should call him the Bronze Bull and imagine the brutal sparring sessions he'll have gone through being trained by Ajax.

Other than that the second guy I am still planning is Vigilator-sergeant Hamath Kraatos. Having fun planning a standing sniper stance using a recoil shoulder stocked and bipoded heavy bolter with snipe scope shooting assassin bolts. Oh, with a modified signum. He is in MK VIII.

More tomorrow afternoon.

Edited by Marius Perdo
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I just had a thought as I was rummaging around my desk/bits storage area.  I don't remember if this was discussed in the previous version of your topic but have you considered using the torsos from the Grey Knights box?  They already have the gorget and armored abdominal cables.  Just a little carving and filling on the chest details and you are good to go.

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I can't wait for Kraatos mini, I had always wondered what he would look like (something between a vindicare and Davian Thule/ Avitus from DOW series).


Will you be sculpting an Erkomi or the contemptor (can't remember his name my IA12 is not to hand) , or would you use FW bits?

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As cool as the running pose is, the second pose, where he has placed a foot on a rock and is thoughtfully reflecting on how much of a badass he is, wins hands down for me. End it there, it's an awesome pose with how he's carrying the axe and all. 


Can't wait for the next update! Love your logs, Marius. :)

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foot on the rock ftw indeed.. as a general bit of advice.. if you blast the fw legs with a hairdryer you can repose them.. its how i did version 2.0 of Kael and the minor reposing on Riders praetors legs. May i suggest you wrap his thumb around the axe a little more, would make the pose seem a little more natural.


other than that.. theres a Kraatos mini being released soon.. israel is sculpting him (guy who did the dread) as far as i know and he looked mint at the open day.


aaaand finally.. new mk8 torso in the tac squad box.. eeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

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@Mikhail: Thanks. I considered GK stuff but after combining the other two and taking moulds of what I had done it became a moot point.


@disease: Ta. FW for preference, I have an Ivanus and Aiakos. I will do Ancient Geryon as just a standard contemptor with Kheres assault cannon and power fist. Now, bearing that in mind see Lorenzen's post...


@Darth Potato: Thanks mate. A Badass of Badab it is then.


@NightHunters: Ta, another for foot on rock, or the pawing like a bull before the charge.


@Lorenzen: Foot on rock it is. I tend to use bowls of hot water (to soften) then cold water with ice (to instantly set when in position). However sometimes you have to cut as is the case for foot on rock :smile.: Thanks for the factoids, imminent impact assessment on project.


Okay, based on what Lorenzen said this has a wee impact on the project...

  • Israel sculpted Aiakos which means his Kraatos should be amazing which means I will not bother basically :smile.: If I am very drunk I may post a scan of my crap sketches.
  • Hmm, new tactical squad MK VIII chest....want. So I need two boxes and more rubber to cast a few, as well as the arm positions...gah.

Right, I obviously can't stop my project but what I can do is take some of squad one (MK VIII with normal bolters, probably going to call the sergeant Eurylos or some such from the Iliad)  to be shunted into squad two (again MK VIII with sergeant Aristophane with Tigrus bolters) and just swap their guns.


This way I can keep working up to the release, and have some of the new MK VIII chests to backfill into each squad. I think I will aim for 2 - 3 of the new chests in each MK VIII squad (two tacticals and Kraatos' devastators at least).


It does mean that Geryon and his MK III tactical squad just got bumped up in priority for both construction and painting. As the Grav Gun looks similar enough to the FW one I'll give squad Geryon one from my FW boarding crew stuff. So ironically, even though I want a lot of MK VIIIs, I'll be doing a MK III first :smile.:


Right, off to try carving that Psi symbol (ψ) in Geryon's chest plate. If no one responds I'll edit in his piccy later, otherwise another post.


Also going to split and pin the axe haft so he will be a bit like the BA DC thunder hammer so I can wrap the thumb around but still keep the arms detached for painting and positioning.

Edited by Marius Perdo
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@ Lorenzen: Thanks mate. He looks cool but I am somewhat disappointed if I am honest. I was hoping for a Vindicare sniper pose emphasising his special bolts as opposed to a re-hash of a Legion heavy bolter in Mk IV with bulls heads on. Was hoping for something of Aiakos' level of magnificence. Oh well, he is who he is so when they release him I'll get him I guess.

@andrew2x2: Trolling my thread with DAs. Need to get these boys done so I can mangle your BTs and HGs and add more helms to their bases ;)

Well, been pottering a bit and fiddling with MK III and working out how to make them left handed etc. So did another MK VIII left handed to finish off squad one as I can't be arsed waiting for the new MK VIII chest in the tact box as I can make my own using mine as a base and FW brass etch eagles and Grandt Line rivets. Not that I have as yet or anything before I get anyone's hopes up :)



Still held together with blu-tac, and I need to build him his scenic base and settle on exact posing (as he is dry pinned together) but you get the gist.

MK III (sort of)


Well, I did a generic bolter guy in MK III but gave him a MK IV head and MK VIII backpack as I liked how Geryon looked. I like how it looks on this guy too so the MK III squad will actually be MK III with MK IV heads a MK VIII power packs. Again blu-tac, dry pinned, no scenic base yet etc etc, yadda yadda, excuses proffered as reasons and what have you.

Right, have a fair idea in my mind of poses I want for squad II in MK VIII and the MK III (sort of) so I guess the next update will be three tactical squads, a rhino, and a drop pod waiting to be painted. As such probably no movement on here from me for several days at least.

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as far as kraatos is concerned.. trust in israel, that was a wip model from the fw open day (in april) and to my knowledge he currently stands at "almost ready for production"


that and if you look reaaaaaally hard the level of detail is awesome already.. swirls on shoulders, greek style pattern on torso, wrists and knees, mino symbol on chest, modified legion mk4 helm and im of the impression the plastic backpack was a placeholder.


oh and i want to see the crap sketches! :D

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The more I see left handed Marines, the more I wish GW would give them the option. Marines are supposed to be ambidextrous after all! :happy.:
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@Lorenzen: Ordered some odds and sods from FW today and just outright asked when Kraatos would be ready given he was WIP at the open day. A couple of months apparently. Also they are aware that with the 6th edition SM codex dropping they need to get their rules updates out ASAP. I guess/suppose/presume/hope Minotaurs will get Asterion Moloc's Chapter Tactics rule, just for being Minotaurs. Given how many people will be playing space marines this amuses me, but then again I'll probably take him anyway...all the time :)

@Aquilanus: Helps when going around left corners, so you can return fire without having your left arm blown off when you can't even see the enemy yet. Something I pondered a lot when playing Space Marine online.

Well, the rules rumours keep flowing and thus I keep vacillating. That aside I have many Minotaurs now at "very wobbly as just dry pinned and blu-tac" stage. As a lot are stood on things until I build them their personalised scenic bases they aren't worth finishing building or showing anyone.

A long time ago I did these for Doom Fist termies, which I knocked together myself:


I have since made some 25mm as well, and I recently lifted a mould of all my bases in rubber. I cast a lot before realised if I only fill the detail bit I can cut them apart and recombine them in innumerable ways. So currently casting loads and have pennies sat in 25mm bases with the Araldite setting. I am also preparing various girders with rivet holes through them, and girders with rivets it, or metal thingummies with hex bolts. It is all going a bit Irn Bru.

As an aside I sold one of my Reavers (it was just gathering dust) which means I can Mr Creosote the entire new SM release and get the digital copy and hard copy (and possibly a new Altar of War) without batting an eyelid. I also found loads of mint OOP FW Epic Tau (including the Manta) which go for silly money on eBay so I'll probably be going mad with new SM stuff. I would have anyway but this way I can leave my FW project funds account alone.

What else...ah, Lorenzen asked so be prepared to be paralysed with horror at my terrible penmanship. However, hopefully it gets the idea of what I thought Kraatos could look like across. Yes, I know I cannot draw, and using a ballpoint pen didn't help :) I doodle like this when I have ideas, and have drawn some right madness in my time.


What else? Ah, whilst the resin cures and in between pouring and poisoning myself with fumes I am re-assigning some old part built vehicles to the Minotaurs and thus I am fiddling with a lot of vehicles, FW drop pods, and FW Minotaurs doors as I pry things apart or just plain plan building new ones. This was because I finally sat down with QM and entered the Minotaur stuff from IA 12, amended points to tie in with rumours (for a rough guide), and made myself an army list.

At this rate I might actually end up playing. Last time was August 2009 :)

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