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Okay, I finally read the rules in Gang War so this might be a bit rambly.

 

Caveat is I am obviously building Goliaths.

 

Firstly the restrictions on certain gear that is very cheap, and Common at the Trading Posts, not being available for starting gangs is a bit odd.

 

I am talking about things like las pistols & guns, auto pistols & guns, shotguns, etc. Some of this would be great for cheap Gangers, others for Juves where they are allowed that type (Pistol, Melee 20 credits or less).

 

The reason is after your first game, as it is the first Cycle of a Turf War you can't collect income for your Turf in the Post-battle Sequence 2. Collect income. However at stage 4. Post-battle actions you could have 2 Champions Work the Gangs Turf, as there is nothing linking the reward to your Turf Rating (1 at this point), and they each IMMEDIATELY add D6x10 credits to your stash. Each.

 

Then you select the visit the Trading Post action for your Leader. With up to 120 credits burning a hole in his posing pouch.

 

Now, that is actually resolved in section 5, sequentially after 4, in 5. Update Roster C. Visit the Trading Post, where you shop your little heart out buying the cheap Common options that don't need availability rolls, that you could have done with in the first instance for building and painting the models of your starting gang.

 

Also given how re-using fighters and gangs works in Turf War to Turf War, it just seems a very arbitrary limitation. All it is going to do is force people to buy more models after you re-arm them.

 

Except you can't. Mostly.

 

Only Leaders and Champions can have weapon sets (even if a cheap one never gets used ever again), as everyone else gets super-glued and stapled to their weapons forever (page 25 Designer's note: Put Away the Clippers).

 

This is where I can see several house rules starting immediately, which is allowing access to Common gear at the start so you can build models as you'd like them, and letting people at the very least throw away an old weapon to take a new one, or swap it (although this could lead to selling stuff to offset the cost of the new stuff).

 

I personally will just write off old (and cheaper & less effective) sets and blackout the cards; the fighters value is always equal to their most expensive set and fighter card anyway.

 

However I don't like house rules as each house is different, and some are made from straw and poo and fall over with the least objective examination :wink:

 

So I pondered, and I decided I would work with what came in the box, and that immediately comes with issues.

 

As you can never swap gear, the only way to get it off a Ganger (and back in the Stash) is to get them killed or Retire them due to injuries (actually at 5 B so their stuff is in the stash prior to the Trading Post visit, and if they retired so is their armour, which might be a way to put furnace plates on a juve but probably not).

 

Fortunately I am brutal enough that this would not bother me with fodder. It made me ponder executing my own guys, especially injured ones, as I doubt opponents would helpfully do it for me to order. Risky jumps seems another route.

 

But it means that I would have to accept that sets was the only way to easily change gear, and for everyone else they'd be stuck with what they had (like Soulbinded gear you can't even sell), and until I had enough credits to buy gear for all three weapon slots with access to all Common weapons, then nothing was going to get glued and thus not painted. I started to feel demotivated already at this point - a system that dissuades converting basic stuff is not good.

 

There is a big difference between wanting to give a Ganger an Auto-pistol and a Club, Maul or Hammer (which he keeps forever), as opposed to paired power swords that are Rare, right at the start.

 

So, it means you have to envision a career path, and work out what things can be glued on easily later on. Things like Grenades, sheathed fighting knives, warbikers cogs onto an already brute cleaver axe head removed so in the first game they had a stub gun (made from a stub cannon because there aren't enough) and a stick out the bottom of their of hand.

 

Hmmm. Sounds a bit crap to me.

 

Or play with a mate who is reasonable and state that "Assuming you don't Out of Action my Leader and all my Champions I'll be straight down the Trading Post after working my Turf getting all this cheap stuff, so do you mind if i convert these impossibilities for an initial starting gang now, as it'll never be an issue again?"

 

I assumed not so I then decided to see how silly i could be.

 

Firstly, the Goliath Armoury includes Axes. The sprue does not, it has brute cleavers. It also includes fighting knives, but the sprue does not have it in hand, merely in sheath.

 

This makes the latter great for adding later, but will need a conversion to be in hand at the start (as an empty hand will look a bit crap).

 

Envision this, a Ganger starts with a Stub Gun in his right hand (converted), and a fighting knife in his left (again, converted). Later on you buy him frag grenades, and he now has three weapons after you glue them to his waist (which you can't have painted). You add scopes and dum-dum rounds too. Sorted. This guy can grow and develop. He is also unique and converted from the start.

 

The same logic can apply to other models. Lets take Drago from the Underhive box. He has a stub cannon and technically a photo-goggles and respirator mask at his side (another lovely wee bit to add to models later, growing them and sinking credits into them).

 

He could also easily then be given a fighting knife in scabbard, and grenades.

 

Or the mystery box, a holstered pistol.

 

Now this last one is going to be a can of worms, as what is in the holster? If you use space marines ones, which are large (whether WH40K or 30K plastics), but also clearly aren't holding a bolt pistol either, then you can start arguments by them being the right size for pretty much any Pistol in Necromunda, as you couldn't buy all 3 weapons that you wanted at the start.

 

I know it seems jaded but imagine this.

 

You do someone who looks a bit like Bonesnapper. However he starts with a Spud-jacker and a Combat Sotgun. Later on you decide the firestorm rounds you bought him just aren't nasty enough so you buy him a pistol too, to give an extra attack when engaged to help hitting things with the Spud-jacker. Just to get the teeth gnashing to say it is a plasma pistol and glue on the smallest holster you can find. You also add a gunshroud to it to make your exploding plasma bolts more difficult to see and hear, as well as the pistol even larger :wink:

 

Okay, no on the plasma pistol, but any other pistol would be fine. I mean what are you supposed to do? They don't have three arms and muties aren't in it yet.

 

The main point of this ramble is by not having access to all Common stuff at the start, and having sticky hands you can't:

  • Build models completely
  • Paint your models
  • May have to have Mystery Box/Surprise holsters
So, that aside I pondered what was the most stupid thing I could build, from spamming either weapons, or bodies.

 

BOOM

 

Goliaths can somewhat lack range.

 

But they are allowed Grenade Launchers from their core armoury. And they pay less than the Trading Post.

 

And one Ganger (Type not fighter) is allowed a Special. As are Champions (2), and a Leader (1).

 

That would be 4 Grenade Launchers. So much for no firepower at range.

 

Not cheap though, just that and two unarmed Gangers to balance the ratios is 765ish credits.

 

Not my thing but the extreme end.

 

THE BURLY BRAWNY HORDE

 

At the other end is giving everyone as cheap stuff as possible, within reason, relying on juves eventually becoming Champions, and Champions and Leaders, being allowed gear sets.

 

Then you just ignore the cheap weapon sets later when you can arm them "properly", and use the old card as a beer mat.

 

It also relies on no-one filling all three weapon slots, and filling them slowly with more expensive stuff, or quickly with cheap stuff.

 

Basically a lot of cheap gear is cheaper than Gangers, or even juves, so best to get the meat first and more metal later.

 

With a Leader with Commanding Presence, and the two Champions, activating groups will mean Lanchestering things down when you activate.

 

So a Leader with a Brute Cleaver and Stub Gun (170), and this model will end up being perfectly fine for a Ganger later (when set swapped), or even a juve when they get promoted and grow up and get their mohawk & face metal (and shoulder and hip plates for actual armour). My way to distinguish a juve from a full ganger at this stage.

 

A Champion with a Stub Gun and a Fighting Knife (125). Same "logic" applies as above regards re-use, and I'll get to convert a massive stub gun and fighting knife in hands. Yay.

 

A Champion with a pair of Stub Guns (120). Same old same old regards re-use of the model. Also I get to convert two huge stub guns. I really need to do a gunshroud with a telescopic scope on it in the same way Sly Marbo copied Snake Pliskin's Ingram MAC-10 supressor in Escape from New York.

 

So, at this point most folks would think two juves and then 5 gangers. Nope, wouldn't be a Horde then. Bodies cost more than weapons and creds are rare on that first Cycle. But not so rare as to get cheap weapons.

 

Three juves, 2 stub guns each, or a fighting knife as they are the same cost. Just add the opposites later and if they survive to be promoted after the first Turf War set swap. 105 creds total.

 

6 gangers with either a spud-jacker and stub gun (in my case probably not many), or a stub cannon (with 2 per sprue, 4 per box...just saying).

 

Note with the cannons it is easy to add grenades to the waist, and a sheathed fighting knife, or a pistol in a holster, or even a hafted weapon that you can't get at the start anyway (club, maul or hammer) through a belt loop. They are easy to grow.

 

Oh, they are 80 each this way, so 480 for all six. So 1000 for a Gang of 12.

 

Obviously not all Scenarios suit a large number of fighter cards, but for those that do this lot with multi-activations might be fun. We'll see.

 

Right I am off to have some nostalgia feels about some of the first Citadel Miniatures I ever coveted and then I'll explain the next part, as I am going with the 12, and why some of this comes full circle.

Edited by Marius Perdo
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@Major_Gilbear: If it is the base head used on Skullshank it will.

Okay, the nostalgia bit.

The first Citadel miniatures I loved were the AD&D character pack ones done under license. These basically had 3 models blister, and had what was supposed to be the same character at low, mid and high level, as their gear, and they, got better.

As I seem to have settled on the idea of a poorly equipped Dirty Dozen I will try and do the same with Necromunda.

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The idea here is how I can grow from a starting model into a later one, following divergent paths. The "characters" can easily change direction due to sets, but I will still need their early version to look like them.

Also reusing stock built Underhive guys will help, but even then I probably need another box.

So for example, on the left I could use the spud-jacker and stub pistol guy, rather than a juve (as I have changed direction with them a wee bit), by adding the exact same plates as Brakk (call this stage 1). Brakk himself only differs in that he has the photo-goggles and respirator as a whole mask with spiked hair, they both have the same chest plate (call this stage 2). He still has a spare weapon slot, which would probably be him at stage 3. However in this case I probably can just add frag grenades to Brakk after getting Underhive skirmish out of my system (between now and when Gang War 2 and Orlocks come out) and a Turf War campaign starts.

Next along is Drago. he actually fits my starting intent (a Ganger with a Stub Cannon) apart from the photo-goggles/respirator combo at his waist, which is a bit Stage 2. However, again, if I build a new duplicate with just a Stub Cannon (as Stage 1), and then add a sheathed fighting knife/holstered pistol to the old Underhive model I'll have stage 2/3 covered in one.

Next along is Varik. Again with the Stub Cannon he is fitting with my idea, but with the goggles/mask combo and fighting knife he is too advanced. So building a stage 1 version without mask, and then adding a holstered pistol or grenades to Vrakk, I get a stage 3.

Then Rork. Same idea, build stage 1 without grenades, stage 2/3 with frag and krak, maybe a goggles/mask combo at waist.

You get the idea. I wish i had it sooner.

Note some like Nox the Ripper are impossibilities, with 4 weapons (spud-jacker, brute cleaver, frag AND krak grenades...bounty hunter maybe), and others will need to be new additions anyway when the Trading Post updates at Gang War 2, like the heavy stubber and flamer.

I may "fix" Nox by changing his grenades for just frag, and put his mixed grenades on Bonesnapper. they'd both have 3 weapons then.

Note the juves may survive to become Champions in which case my starting Leader/Champion models, who will have moved on by then (if not dead/retired), will be an ideal terminus points and starting points for the next news stage in the juve's, as was, "career path".

Note with random skills, deaths, injuries etc this narrative arc is more of a guideline than anything else.

Gangs are going into battle, terrible things will happen.

Right, top down I guess. I'll start with the leader who will be basically Skullshank with a Brute Cleaver axe head swap and a massive stub gun swapped in for the combi-pistol (so the combi-pistol/power hammer "Skullshank" can be used as a later weapon set).

Edited by Marius Perdo
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Done very little, mostly dry pinning Underhive guys to bases to facilitate masked off hairspray and sand hazard striping later on.

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However, I have "fixed" Nox the Ripper and Bonesnapper, reducing Nox to 3 weapons (from 4) and pushing Bonesnapper up to 3.

I also did the first incarnation of my Leader, with a very large stub gun made from a stub cannon that was mostly cut down, but not as much as my previous one so it is much beefier and boss like.

Just swapped in for a combi-pistol, and a brute cleaver head for a power hammer head, and otherwise the same as Skullshank so they can be used as base stance but varying weapon sets.

So, that meant I spent time researching about furnaces, and 19th century foundry slang.

My Leader will be Vrakos "the Mountain". So named not just for his size, but the fact his gang look up to him (Initial Primary skill - Leadership - Commanding Presence). Formerly of the Rusty Guts (a slang phrase from the 1830s for an tough, blunt, old, fellow), when Vrakos was given his chance by his House to start his own gang and turf he swore to avoid the cronyism, nepotism, and favourtism that saw older gangers take all the creds for themselves, rather than spreading the metal on the the meat, and getting meat in to use for future metal.

Whilst his Houses business may be metal, it takes the meat to manage and work it, and as such Vrakos has used his credit allowance to attract as many gangers and juves as possible. He has brought two of the old gang with him as Champions, who are of a similar mindset, and use the same gear they have had since they started, rather than abusing their position.

This casting process, of forming his gang into the best iron they can be, is known in foundries as founding (and is also a very bad pun in this context), and he believes he will make them all ultimately be of the finest fettle. As such he has called his gang the Down Runners, a component in a furnace that moves the pure metal down after the slag is scraped off (for me it sounds like Peaky Blinders, it has to do with foundries, and it sounds like they run or control down below).

I'll make a ferratonic furnace "live" with an open top with melting slag/ore in it, to be a bit of a themed terrain for their starting turf, an old foundry they are restoring to good working order. As it will be an old foundry with rusting empty furnaces in it, I'll call their turf the Rust Buckets, as it looks like a room full of old rusting (very large though) buckets.

I have planned the champions, the first will be based on Grendel, but will be holding the stub gun from an earlier post in the krumper handle grip arm, and a fighting knife in the other. I'll call him Fornax, and will add a holstered pistol to him sharpish, before moving on to more exotic weapons sets.

The paired stub gun champion (but not identical guns, but again converted from stub cannons), will be "Iron" Barka. A barking-iron or barker is 1830s slang for a pistol, so it seemed to fit.

No idea on skills as yet.

Other names I am thinking of are Ferrak, Kuer, Boxx, Korr, Nobak, Anneal (if I can work out how to slightly feminise the face of a Goliath), but I need at least 12 in total.

Nicknames will depend, but "Crusher" for someone seems inevitable.

Anyway, back to dry pinning models feet and bases.

Edited by Marius Perdo
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This plan makes as much sense as any. I get what you're trying to achieve; I was a big fan of Gorkamorka and I always tried to model both the equipment, skills and injuries on my boyz and yoofs. Inevitability, this meant hacking up 'finished' models, but I saw that as part of the game.

 

I guess GW has run some sort of cost-benefit analysis and determined its not worth the cost of supporting conversion bits like they used to. Sadly, I think this will ead to a lot of games where the actual loadouts don't match the models.

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@Sgt. Blank: There is talk of FW doing weapon packs (from watching WHTV), but until then I'll just have to plan as well as I can with conversions. The guys at the club are very enthused, but as I pointed out to them without a full range of gangs it might be difficult to get a Turf War going.

 

At least I have all the Sector Mechanicus terrain covered :wink:

Basically if someone wants to dabble as a sideline from 40k they might find needing 3 or more boxes a bit much (to cover growth and options to avoid chopping people up...as in models as opposed to in game), as well as the individual core rulebook being in a boxed set with two gangs they don't want. We'll also have to see about FW resin models, trying to get the hive scum for example could end up costing more than an entire gang box or two.

I got half-horn, and I could have got another 10 Goliaths instead.

Regardless, we are still just messing about in the actual bottom box map with four gangers and layering in the advanced rules. Last night was the joy of injury dice and ammo running out. It does create hilarious situations. "What do you mean you forgot to bring grenades and brought just one?" :smile.:

I am also beginning to love the Knockback on Spud-jackers and stub cannons.

Edited by Marius Perdo
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@Sagentus: Ta. However I have seen some of WHW scenic/diorama board WIPs, the appreciation is going to be coming more from me I think :)

@Reyner: As for paint when everything is built it should be quick, starting with an airbrushed deep rusty brown as a joint undercoat/base coat featuring lots of old brown Citadel paints mixed with black.

I have ordered more thermic pipes (2 sets), and some of the Ryza STC pattern ruins from the moonbase thing (2 sets). I think I can make something not ruined and interesting out of two sets of the ruins.

I am flitting a bit between things as they dry, started on the pipes on big walkway bridge thing blown up and both ends as the Imperium doesn't do health and safety. They will stack on top of each other to split the walkway down the middle.

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Edited by Marius Perdo
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@Scribe: Ta, but it is easier these days with so many plastic kits.

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The old necromunda bulkheads will look too weedy for struts on this I think. I will need to dig out 3 Skyshield landing pad ones I think. Not sure what I'll do with the fourth one. They should be separate enogh to cross over Sector Imperialis roads.

PS the pipes are not glued to the walkway. They are flat enough and heavy enough to sit well on their own, so they can be removed to create an open walkway, and have the pipes be put on the table elsewhere.

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@sockwithaticket: Ta mate, however stuff arrived today which turned out to be sized just right. More custom stuff designing itself in my brain.

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My Christmas presents to myself arrived.

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The span with alternating parapets, and two skyshield struts. The joy here is it is robust and stable, crosses a sector imperialis road and pavements, has the eagles and lights facing inwards for safe driving in the Emperor's name, and leaves two spare so I can do another variant of this when this is finished (needs some girder trim, and maybe some sprue cross strutting for extra support underneath).

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Razorsaw at the red lines and I will have some interesting building corners/support struts and then left over ruin/junk bits for a scrapheap.

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My minds eye for height guessed right. Pleased with my purchases.

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Even more pleased, my brain is getting the strange painful rush where ideas start falling over themselves in a heap.

Note I obviously hacked up my skyshield, which I never used since it first came out and only built for the Halloween zombie mission. It will not be missed.

The pad itself could be quartered and then maybe mashed with the bits above. A way too big octagonal pad quartered down into spaces that almost have an original nercomunda card tile feel and shape.

A pet peeve of mine is things which lack utility and warranty, and aren't fit for use and purpose. Terrain that falls apart easily, can't hold a reasonable amount of models or doesn't block line of sight whilst being impassable (and unusable), breaks all the time and can't be stored safely, and isn't multi-functional to a least a minor degree (as in suits different tables and has different modes) falls into that category.

This bridge thing does nothing to annoy me (for once), and I am surprisingly pleased with it so far. So much so I will build another (but more ped-way, and maybe with steps/ramps at either end rather than the remains of an explosion).

So a hint/tip is plan, but farting about with bits in hand and dry testing them is part of that, and always have the largest based model you intend to use on it to hand to see if they fit. Have an idea of what point and purpose it has in your games, and remember it can look as cool (which is a personal taste anyway) as you like, but if it adds little value and breaks everything three seconds...

That is why I like plastic of a certain thickness. Doesn't bend, doesn't get soggy like cardboard or wood soaking up paint and warping or easily distorting or snapping (or collapsing or compacting). Not cheap but buy cheap, buy twice is something my nana used to say.

That said I have more than enough now to keep me busy for...well, forever really. It feels like a nadir of quality and durability has been reached with GW kits, so these should be great for years to come.

When I actually finish building them, and paint them that is :wink:

Edited by Marius Perdo
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Did some positioning to get a feel for what is missing and how it looks together, and might play together. The only pure SecMech stuff is the walkways and the regulators..

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The pumping house does feel quite bland on its own, and I was going to add manufactorum chimneys to it. I didn't though and I am glad I didn't, as it works when placed in relation to other objects.

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Swapped around, which explains the gaps on the roof for alternate pipe arrangements. I'll build a thermic set to mirror the promethium ones exactly, and possibly even a similar pipe tower.

I still have some thermic regulators to build. And two sets of thermic pipes. And one set of promethium. And the SM crane thing which I have ideas for. And two ferratonic furnaces, probably as actual furnaces.

Then a winch tower using old bulkeahds, and a tower to put the crane on. And something else similar to the pipe ped-way using my last two skyshield struts.

Then something using quartered landing pad in 5 levels, using old bulkheads and the Ryza corners, that has that old skool nercomunda look, whilst somehow being robust and durable and not flimsy looking.

And scatter crates and barrels etc.

This is why I am nowhere near painting yet.

On Boxing Day and most of the 27th I will be home alone as mum and little one visit some relatives, and I will have the dining table and peace and quiet to lay out and plan some of this stuff like scenery Scaletrix, and hopefully ideas will flow.

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All the stuff so far.

Seems like too much (although the table is only slightly over 4' x 3').

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Except it isn't really.

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I need to wait for more daylight tomorrow, and I only have until the afternoon to clear away, but it is already giving me lots of ideas about what I like as a style, issues with pipe layouts etc.

Doing the layout at 45 degrees to the edge axis (or therabouts) makes it look more "natural" to me, and I definitely like pipes crossing over SM single tier SM walkways.

Anyway back downstairs to make notes and plans.

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Well...

@Verux: Thanks, but if I had put some thought in up front (well measuring), I would have detected potential layout problems with pipes (promethium ones mostly) early on. Especially as they work best as ground huggers of set length...

@Focslain: Ta, but the kits are quite easy to build, even mashing Cities of Death stuff isn't too hard. However the pipe tower using all three plus custom cut train stuff was more involved. More of that stuff soon as pipe carrying sort of relay strut towers (as i really like pipes going over SM walkways).

@DuskRaider: I am now playing Sisters of Mercy as a consequence.

@Wolf_Priest_Dantay: 6' x 4' as the actress said to the vicar? :wink: I do have a few things left to build, and there are custom ideas, but I suppose there is the argument of using it for 40K as well. and not just Necromunda.

@DuskRaider: I now have "More" on repeat.

Okay, and now for something completely different as I need a change. I am unlikely to play a Turf War for several months until at least two more gangs come out so for a while just bimbling and finessing terrain will suffice.

But I did get the new DG stuff, so I thought I'd have a play for a change. Oh dear...

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So the Lord Felthius and the Tainted Cohort.

The lords face is so bad it looks like Slimer from Ghostbusters (top first red circle of shame).

The plastic is of terrible quality, low res (blurry almost), and bendy, like some older terrain kits that GW got slated for (second circle, that scythe part can be bent out almost at right angles to the haft). Or the toy soldiers I used to buy as a child from Airfix or Matchbox.

Even though bendy plastic some of the pegs had snapped off in the box meaning it was not snap push and easy fit anymore.

The plaguespewer guy has no melee weapon, and he should have a bubotic axe or balesword (lower red circle).

The datasheet in the box has him armed (unarmed this way?) which contradicts the codex and makes Aura of Rust a bit daft for him, but they are a special unit of just 3 Blightlord Terminators, rather than 5.

So no point with a codex.

We'll get to the positives soon.

The myphitc sprue.

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Perfectly fine green plastic, just like Know No Fear and 1st Strike. Looks a bit odd, and it was to put together.

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Okay blight-hauler first. Whilst push to fit it does feel a bit flimsy whilst doing so, until the model is attached to the pre-holed base, and the front plate is finally fitted.

I think the guns could be swapped around relatively easily for variety, and some spare bloat-drone carapaces could be cut back and added to the face plate for more variety. We'll see.

However, I do love it and really want to try them out with all their odd rules. And plethora of weapons.

The normal blightlords guns can have combi-parts swapped onto them so if you manage to find a bits shop that does them knock yourself out. I have been trying to get the plasma parts for months now and have been epicly failing.

The head can have their pegs cut off which stops them locking into position, so they can be rotated. Or use spare higher res/better quality plastic ones from the blightlord box everyone hates.

A spare bubotic axe can be fitted to the off hand quite easily however (I used the hand for the balesword conversion earlier), and I can probably make another balesword like I did before. I may cut back the shoulder on the box blight launcher, and swap it in as I don't like the short range on a non-rapid fire weapon when I want to maximise Inexorable Advance for a unit.

Putting in a starter box stock lord of contagion head looks better than Slimers head. But there was still something bugging me about it. Also no idea why he had a 40mm base when the normal one is on a 50mm, so I changed that.

I went out and walked the dogs and had a think in the cold, wet, dark on the bleak winter beaches.

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Change of aspect. Using the head I was going to use for the sorcerer in terminator armour conversion, using the blister pack aspiring champion head. Works better with the models stance for me.

However the weird leaking orb thing he is holding up almost looks magical...

This obviously led to...

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This means I can use the deathshroud spare manreaper blade head like I intended, or this green one, to go on a starter box LoC as a variant, and then use the other two spare LoCs to make two lords in terminator armour with combi-weapons and baleswords, who due to their cloaks can also be the aspiring champions for blightlords, so that would be two units of 5, making the 3 slightly less useless.

This means, perversely, I need another stock LoC to make into a Nurgle Terminator Lord if I wanted to field all of them.

Which I do.

Edited by Marius Perdo
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