Book 2: Massacre - any more info?

[Karthak]

Looking at the Isttvan map, it seems to contradict Vulkan Lives. On the map, the Salamanders are engaged mostly by the Alpha Legion, but in Vulkan Lives they are the closest to the Iron Warriors, and manage to charge them before getting nuked. On the forgeworld map the Iron Warriors are far away from the Salamanders.

[Kol Saresk]

Yes and no. When the Betrayal happened, the Salamanders would have been at the rear lines. But as the Traitors tightened the noose, the Salamanders would have been pushed back, away from the Iron Warriors, as the IV Legion contented itself with shelling the Loyalists. So actually, all three can happen.

[Marshal Rohr]

The IF and the IW will share the Siege things, but execute them difference. Not what Im saying will happen but something like IW get FC and MtC when assaulting fortifications and Imperial Fists will get -1 to cover saves on enemies in cover.

 

Then the IW will get a Legion rule that is 'methodical' like chose to move SnP get to fire as salvo, while the Imperial Fists will get a 'champion-y' rending in challenges.

[HaSY]

That sounds possible.. so what do u think of Raven Guard and Alpha Legiin?

[Kol Saresk]

I keep hearing talk of the Alpha Legion having freaky-dinky warmachines. Maybe we'll see some of those. For the Raven Guard, a bit similar to their Codex: SM Options, some similarities with the Night lords, an then a bit f Frge World's magic touch. Altogether, these two an the Night Lords should bear some resemblence.

[HaSY]

Considering those folks love to misdirect n lure cattles to pre designated kill zones... I think so.

 

NL n RG have sumthing im common ; shadows.

 

AL might have rule suggest they r nt affected when their warlord gt killed fluff wise

 

From Massacre we saw IW have this unique Havoc squad n if im nt mistaken thunder strike assault gun?

[Scribe]

Fire Raptor is up...and lovely. 

[Noctus Cornix]

Interesting enough, concerning the Alpha Legion that is, they actually have a small rules mention in Massacre.

 

Essentially, under the Sons of Horus section, there is a special ammunition called Banestrike. Its sort of a mini rending rule that any to wound roll of a 6 is considered AP 3. It goes on to say that Seeker Squads and Independant Characters with the Legiones Astartes (Sons of Horus) or Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) may purchase it for a small fee of like 5 points.

[Kol Saresk]

Oh right, the Anti-Astartes rounds.

[Dumah]

Interesting enough, concerning the Alpha Legion that is, they actually have a small rules mention in Massacre.

 

Essentially, under the Sons of Horus section, there is a special ammunition called Banestrike. Its sort of a mini rending rule that any to wound roll of a 6 is considered AP 3. It goes on to say that Seeker Squads and Independant Characters with the Legiones Astartes (Sons of Horus) or Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) may purchase it for a small fee of like 5 points.

 

I caught that one as well. I was disappointed with the basic Seeker Squad's lack of ap3 special ammunition, so that right there would actually make them worth it for SoH and AL. The only downside is the shorter range on Banestrike ammunition so I'd probably pair them with a Vigilator for infiltrate and scouting goodness.

[Marshal Rohr]

I'm beginning to think we will never see an exact way a legion is organized.

[Daddywarcrimes]

I'm beginning to think we will never see an exact way a legion is organized.

 

I can only imagine that the Shadow Crusade book's section on the Thirteenth will include something about the TO&E of an Astartes Legion.

[spu00sed]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned but pages 176 and 177 show Reavers with new carapace weapons, looks like tubo laser destroyers. Not sure if they are new models or conversions, but looks promising

[Conn Eremon]

It's interesting to note that the Salamanders, Space Wolves and Alpha Legion were created together, in secret. Since Russ was second found, and the XVIIIth had a late Unification battle, that implies that, although Alpharius Omegon were found in the final decades, the Alpha Legion has been changed to be present this whole time, though perhaps kept under wraps and secretive.

 

Edit: I also find it odd that they show the Night Lord colors for a Tactical squad is a white helm and breastplate, but no other squad type is shown with a change of colors.

[Legatus]

^Wasn't every Legion participatig in the Great crusade from the beginning? The Emperor's Children have specific background that speaks of genetic issues until their Primarch was found, but other than that I allways had the impression that the Primarchs were simply taking over command over their Legion, not that the Legions were only just taken into service upon the discovery of their Primarch.

[Conn Eremon]

From the old Index Astartes, paraphrased because touchscreen typing is annoying:

 

Alpha Legion was the "the last of the . . . Legions to be created . . . [T]heir founding just a few decades before [Alpharius takes command]."

 

The current books by FW do go along with the idea that the Legions weren't all created at the same time. War Hounds being an example, as they were young, untried, and yet it said other Legions were elsewhere in the Sol System or beyond. While their foundings aren't related to their Primarchs' discoveries, that is true, it appears that we now have a Legion who has been Primarch-less longer than any other Legion. And it just so happens to be one of the Legions most influenced by that Primarch.

 

Though, considering the old IA says the Emperor had "astounding prescience" in founding them at that time, it could be that old fluff insinuates that their founding order was related to their discovery.

 

Merely pointing out a potential retcon, and I do stress potential. It's talking about the proto-Salamanders, so I'm sure Extermination will more decisively state it.

[Xwingt65]

I got my Massacre this wednesday and have been slowly absorbing the book. It is epic so far. Sooooo much pretty art, the IH look spectacular in black, gunmetal, silver and white. Halfway through the Night Lords section.

[Kol Saresk]

From the old Index Astartes, paraphrased because touchscreen typing is annoying:

 

Alpha Legion was the "the last of the . . . Legions to be created . . . [T]heir founding just a few decades before [Alpharius takes command]."

 

The current books by FW do go along with the idea that the Legions weren't all created at the same time. War Hounds being an example, as they were young, untried, and yet it said other Legions were elsewhere in the Sol System or beyond. While their foundings aren't related to their Primarchs' discoveries, that is true, it appears that we now have a Legion who has been Primarch-less longer than any other Legion. And it just so happens to be one of the Legions most influenced by that Primarch.

 

Though, considering the old IA says the Emperor had "astounding prescience" in founding them at that time, it could be that old fluff insinuates that their founding order was related to their discovery.

 

Merely pointing out a potential retcon, and I do stress potential. It's talking about the proto-Salamanders, so I'm sure Extermination will more decisively state it.

it's possible the XX underwent a phase similar to Alpharius where officially, they didn't exist yet, but unofficially they did. Like Horus find Alpharius and then holding him as a secret for an undisclosed amount of time. Maybe the Emps did something similar with the XX so they were only "created" a few decades before he took command because that was when they hit the paperwork as actually existing?

[Conn Eremon]

It's possible, though they must still have been active. You don't create a Legion and then keep it in the basement. Unknown to the greater Imperium, I can believe. So it still stands that we have a Legion living over a century before encountering their Primarch.

[Kol Saresk]

We have a Primarch who spent time with another Primarch before his existence was even made known to the Imperium. And then spent another undisclosed amount of time being paraded through the Imperium before being given his Legion. It is entirely possible that there is a reason things like the operations at Nurthene came so naturally to the XX that it only took a couple of decades for them to become specialized at it while also getting the resources to build bolt rounds made especially for killing other Astartes, something only one other Legion has access to and even then only in limited numbers.