[HH1.0] Iron Hands Tactics

[Leoric]

Greetings!

 

I'm looking to upgrade my small Iron Hands force (I have only 15 Tacticals right now). First and most importantly I will have another 15 Tacticals as my second Troop choice, but I'm a bit unsure how follow, as there are too many shiny things at FW... At the very beginning I planned an Infantry based force, but I smashed that idea away as the new weapons swarmed out from the forges.

 

Currently I'm torn between a Deredeo Pattern Dread and a Sicaran. Both of them are amazing, and I'm not sure what to choose. I'm leaning a bit for the Deredeo, as I have (and though if I make this order I will still have) a small IH force, only worth of a Zone Mortalis-sized force. And as I'm aware, Sicarans aren't allowed in ZM :-)

 

The second thought was some Iron Scions - Thallax or Castellax. I think they would make a nice and useful addition to my collection.

 

I hope that you could give me some advice, where to go.

There are right now no other HH players, so will be facing mostly regular 40k armies (if I get a chance again to play), but I try to persuade a Death Guard player to "take 10.000 steps back to the past".

[Memento Of Prospero]

Not sure how I missed this post.

 

Deredeo gives you a good anti-air option OR good anti infantry. It can't do both. A sicaran will give be a lot more well round with the ability to do both, with a little less efficiency. It however can tackle AV 14 targets where the Deredeo cannot.

 

It's really a question of preference in aesthetic department and "all comers" list building minset.

 

You can still put those tactical marines to good use. You'll need some troops anyways ;)

 

Castellax with a Praevian are tough as scream Iron Hands in both looks and design. You can never go wrong with them. Dark Fire Cannons and targeting arrays are the way to go, they will melt away armour, and provide you with a valuable source of AP 2. I will be upgrading mine soon.

[Raktra]

Well, the Deredeo CAN hurt AV14, just can't pen it or harm a flare shield Spartan. Really though, for Iron Hands a Sicaran should be an auto-buy. We have Orth.

[ROBOcaster]

I want to add this little something I did while at work this morning.

 

http://i.imgur.com/SkWT8Jol.jpg

 

As we can see Sicaran with Orth is our best option with an average of 1.48 hits on AV14 (without FS) per turn, but please remember that Flare Shields Spartans do exist in HH and a Deredeo is not able to perform against them but an Orthcaran can take these things on in front armor and deal with the Flare Shields plus its fast and can easily flank your opponents front armor.

Edited April 17, 2015 by ROBOcaster

[Hesh Kadesh]

Ooh, Anecdote time. Helpful ish, I guess but it's important to remember;

 

That isn't exactly clear what you're writing down. Maybe including information what the numbers are, etc. And while moderately useful, it doesn't take into account that you're not accounting for RAW maths either, just the result of a handful of dice, of which your sample size is far too small. Add to the fact that while I'm not question your integrity, the point remains that in such Anecdotes, their remains that degreee of doubt; for example, the main one for me is how all 3 managed to survive for 3 games.

 

If you run that same a thousand, ten thousand times even, you'll begin to see patterns in the rolls, showing the bias in the dice to land on particular numbers; not all dice a created to Vegas casino standards after all. I'm getting a bit tired now, but I'll put up a pure maths showcase tomorrow, which will highlight it; of course there are inaccuracies there, which I'll explain more when i get there.

[depthcharge12]

Ahh the world of natural distributions and sample sizes :P

[Leoric]

Thanks for all the reactions!

I find it really hard to figure out, what to squeeze into the army, and the "limited" 3 slots of Heavy Support really makes me mad. There wasn't any problem with my regular Marine armies, but in the Heresy there are just so many great options. It isn't any helpful too, that Sicarans or Deredeos can't come in Squadrons or Talons... Anyway, how many Sicarans do you recommend?

 

 

As for the Troops - the two 15 man strong Tactical Squad will provide the backbone until I get the thougher options. I was thinking: once I reach the bigger point (I know, it won't be in the next 6 months ) I could bulk them up to 20 Legionaries, or add a Support Squad in a Rhino. And - as I really like those Medusan fella's - there will be a 15-20 man strong Breacher Squad, just for fun!

 

 

Castellax with a Praevian are tough as scream Iron Hands in both looks and design. You can never go wrong with them. Dark Fire Cannons and targeting arrays are the way to go, they will melt away armour, and provide you with a valuable source of AP 2. I will be upgrading mine soon.

 

I think I missed the Praevian... How many Castellax are you running?

If I take the Head of the Gorgon Rite, I can take Battle-automata Maniples as Elite choices. Is it regulated how many slots can I take for these?

[Memento Of Prospero]

Now that the praevian is out (it's a new release, check the forgeworld website for details) I run him with a 5 ma unit of Darkfire lances now that I've seen more much more useful they are than mauler cannons.I may push for a second unit as elites eventually. But I would rather add more cool gadgets before I get to that point.

 

Sicarans and Deredeos overlap in function. It comes down to specialisation vs generalisation. Deredeos can do more specific things when you need them to be at the cost of utility. Sicarans can tackle most targets with decent success rate (orth makes this even more of a factor)

 

I've decided to use the rule of cool as a tie breaker when not sure what to buy. This is mostly as I've gotten older, I tend to play less and appreciate modeling and painting more.

[xxunphasedxx]

Hello fellow members of the Iron Tenth. I have recently got back into 40(30)k pretty hard after seeing Ferrus Manus's model 2 years ago and just buying it. So over 2 years of wanting to get back I finally have a small force. I have a couple questions that I hope I am not repeating, I have skimmed through the VERY helpful comments in this thread and have learned a lot but I may have missed a question and if that is the case I am sorry.

 

1. Do you guys prefer 10 man squads in Rhino's? Or 20 man blobs?

I personally prefer 10 man in rhinos as I intend my army to be fully embarked for the battles ahead, but I always seem to hear everybody talking about squads of 20, I understand they are cheaper when blobbed up but I find it much safer/ faster to get places in a rhino and with the overall speed of the mechanized force we have, I find it very fitting that they can keep up or outflank if need be (I almost exclusively play head of the gorgon).

 

2. What do you guys think of the Demios Vindicator Laser Destroyer?

These things seemed like the bomb when I read the rules online a couple months ago, so I decided my list needs 2 but I haven't heard any chatter about them online, are they as good as I think or was I just too easily amazed? I plan to have 2 and a Spartan in my list so my thinking is once their armour is all gone, I can rule the table with my armour.

 

3. Do you guys play against 40k often? And if so, how do you fair?

As I have recently moved I don't have a gaming group in my immediate area that plays 30k anymore. There is however, a Gamesworkshop 10 minutes from where I live. As I plan to play here weekly/often soon, I was wondering how we fair against the xeno scum of the 41st? I have a story to make sense of my iron hands turning up in 40k so my question is basically is it a fair fight to play a legion army against a regular 40k army?

 

Sorry about the long questions on a article that has been recently inactive for almost a month but I am really excited to play 30k and the recourses for 30k/Iron Hands are rather limited and it seems there is a good group of helpful people here. I have other questions but I will wait instead of writing a novel on one post. Thanks in advance.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Welcome to the fold brother.

 

1. I like 20 man tacticals, especially under Head of the Gorgon. The can hold backline objectives or get to mid field at a decent pace. They are never wiped off the board easily. My outflanking heavy armour usually moves to contest forward objectives along with units that can take punishment to contest. 10 man tacticals in rhinos can't really do that for me.

 

2. They can go toe to toe with a Venator in damage output without the benefit of forcing snapfire. but like all predator chasis, they are fragile.

 

3. I've played plenty of games against 40k armies. The Heresy doesn't really have the same cost efficiency (this will get worse as editions go by without us getting updates) as Games workshop continuously power creeps in that way. Everything is getting cheaper all the time (point cost wise, never price wise lol) so we struggle to match things like Imperial Knights or wraith knights. We do have advantages in tech and armoured ceramite seriously trumps my strategies for tank hunting however.

[Brofist]

Regarding tactical squads, both have their places. It all depends on your list.

 

I tend to use both a 20 man blob and 10 man squad in rhinos for my lists. The rhino squad is usually naked and I use them for grabbing objectives thanks to their mobility. I use the 20 man blob as an anvil which includes an apothecary, a navigator, and a chaplain. Sometimes I even throw in the shield relic to give them a nice bubble against blast weapons. 

 

The Vindicators have decent rules, but for the Iron Hands legion it might be better to stick with rapiers. 3 rapiers with the same weapon cost about the same points. They lack in mobility and range (unless the numbers in Book 4 are accurate, which means they actually have 48"), but at T8 with 12 wounds it'll take a lot more firepower to bring them down compared to a vindicator.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Bulbafist

[Hammer of Olympia]

Heya guys

for Iron hands,is it possible to bring Orth and a tank company in 1000 pts? 

[Caillum]

Try this! Pretty sure I saw it somewhere in the forums once.

 

HQ

Spearhead-Centurion Castrmen Orth

 

ELITES

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought, 2 Kheres pattern assault cannon. 180

 

TROOPS

14 Legion Tactical Marines, Legion vexilla, Artificer armour, power axe & melta bombs. 225

14 Legion Tactical Marines, Legion vexilla, Artificer armour, power axe & melta bombs. 225

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank, Sponson-mounted lascannon. 175

Legion Whirlwind Scorpius.

 

GRAND TOTAL. 1000

 

You could also drop the additional Tactical Marines and get 2 Rhinos with Dozer Blades - completely tankified!

Edited June 7, 2015 by Caillum

[Hammer of Olympia]

Try this! Pretty sure I saw it somewhere in the forums once.

 

HQ

Spearhead-Centurion Castrmen Orth

 

ELITES

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought, 2 Kheres pattern assault cannon. 180

 

TROOPS

14 Legion Tactical Marines, Legion vexilla, Artificer armour, power axe & melta bombs. 225

14 Legion Tactical Marines, Legion vexilla, Artificer armour, power axe & melta bombs. 225

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank, Sponson-mounted lascannon. 175

Legion Whirlwind Scorpius.

 

GRAND TOTAL. 1000

 

You could also drop the additional Tactical Marines and get 2 Rhinos with Dozer Blades - completely tankified!

 

this is cool,but I want more tanks! is it possible?

[Trydragon]

Yes, it is but not sure how well it would do.


+++ Tank (995pts) +++

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (995pts) ++

+ HQ () +

Spearhead-Centurion Castrmen Orth

+ Troops (410pts) +

Legion Tactical Squad (205pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]
Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [blessed Autosimulacra]
Legion Tactical Sergeant [Combi-Weapon]

Legion Tactical Squad (205pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]
Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [blessed Autosimulacra]
Legion Tactical Sergeant [Combi-Weapon]

+ Fast Attack (100pts) +

Tarantula Sentry Gun Battery (100pts) [Exchange all twin-linked Heavy Bolters for Hyperios Air-defence Missile Launchers, 2x Tarantula Sentry Gun]

+ Heavy Support (405pts) +

Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron (125pts)
Legion Predator Tank [blessed Autosimulacra, Lascannons]

Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron (115pts)
Legion Predator Tank [Lascannons]

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (165pts) [blessed Autosimulacra, Heavy Bolters]

+ Legion +

Legion Astartes [X: Iron Hands]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

Edited June 8, 2015 by Trydragon

[Caillum]

Well, it's definitely possible. You probably won't run into much air support, so you could swap the Contemptor-Mortis for another tank. Do what I suggested and drop the Tacticals to minimum size and grab Rhinos. Those changes could net you a Scorpius, Sicaran, Sicaran Venator and 2 Rhinos with Tacs - not too shabby!

 

But until you run the Head of the Gorgon RoW, you don't really see any advantages for Iron Hands tanks. That would mean dropping Orth for a Delegatus, which reduces your tanks' effectiveness. Doable, but 1000 points is hard in HH.

[Hammer of Olympia]

Well, it's definitely possible. You probably won't run into much air support, so you could swap the Contemptor-Mortis for another tank. Do what I suggested and drop the Tacticals to minimum size and grab Rhinos. Those changes could net you a Scorpius, Sicaran, Sicaran Venator and 2 Rhinos with Tacs - not too shabby!

 

But until you run the Head of the Gorgon RoW, you don't really see any advantages for Iron Hands tanks. That would mean dropping Orth for a Delegatus, which reduces your tanks' effectiveness. Doable, but 1000 points is hard in HH.

 

1000 pts is where me and my 30k gaming buddy agreed to start,so we could get a hang on 30k games, 

this is a list I cooked up myself,the reason i dont take rhinos is that to me I dont really know what the rhinos will do other than provide more survivability to the tac squads,but that's cause I play Eldar in which we all run very fast.

 

so here is the list

 

+ HQ (80pts) +

 

Spearhead-Centurion Castrmen Orth (80pts)

 

+ Troops (320pts) +

 

Legion Tactical Squad (160pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour]

 

Legion Tactical Squad (160pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour]

 

+ Heavy Support (600pts) +

 

Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron (280pts)

····Legion Predator Tank [blessed Autosimulacra, Executioner Plasma Cannon, Heavy Bolters]

····Legion Predator Tank [blessed Autosimulacra, Executioner Plasma Cannon, Heavy Bolters]

 

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (205pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Blessed Autosimulacra, Lascannons]

 

Legion Whirlwind Scorpius (115pts)

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [X: Iron Hands]

 

this got 4 tanks yo! more dakka and boom boom 

Edited June 8, 2015 by Hammer of Olympia

[Raktra]

Delagatus

 

2x min. veteran squads with sniper

2x Land Raider proteus

 

3x Predators with heavy bolters

 

Sacrifices Orth, but you've got some points still to use I think.

[The_flesh_is_weak]

What are you guys thoughts on this 2500 point army list?

 

HQ:

 

Casterman Orth - 80 points

 

Legion praetor [paragon blade, iron halo, cyber familiar, digital lasers] 180 points

 

Legion centurion [master of signals, artificer armour, refractor shield] 105 points

 

Troops:

 

20 man tactical squad [artificer armour and melta bombs on sergeant] 265 points

 

20 man tactical squad [artificer armour and melta bombs on sergeant] 265 points

 

Heavy support:

 

Sicaran battle tank [lascannons and armoured ceramite] 195 points

 

Sicaran battle tank [lascannons and armoured ceramite] 195 points

 

Sicaran battle tank [lascannons and armoured ceramite] 195 points

 

Elites:

 

Apothecarion detachment x2 apothecaries 90 points

 

Contemptor-mortis dreadnought [two kheres assault cannons] 190 points

 

Contemptor-mortis dreadnought [two kheres assault cannons] 190 points

 

Lords of war:

 

Legion Fellblade super heavy tank [armoured ceramite] 550 points

 

Strategy: So Orth goes in the fell blade which holds my deployment zone along with the tacticals and contemptor mortis's, the apothecaries each join a tactical squad a long with the master of signals and praetor each joining seperate tactical squads. The sicarans outflank and cause trouble in the second turn, use the head of the gorgon right of war to do this and force them to come to me with superior long range fire power. In which I gun them down in front of my lines, using the sicarans to kill any armour or heavy armoured units e.g. Terminators and the fell blade to kill bigger targets like those damn Spartans, so is this any good?

[Hammer of Olympia]

Delagatus

 

2x min. veteran squads with sniper

2x Land Raider proteus

 

3x Predators with heavy bolters

 

Sacrifices Orth, but you've got some points still to use I think.

wogh the amount of armor there is massive,are you taking the sacred duty ROW or armored assault?

[Slips]

 

Delagatus

 

2x min. veteran squads with sniper

2x Land Raider proteus

 

3x Predators with heavy bolters

 

Sacrifices Orth, but you've got some points still to use I think.

wogh the amount of armor there is massive,are you taking the sacred duty ROW or armored assault?

 

Sacred Duty.

 

3 Preds can be taken as a Squadron = 1 HS Slot

2 Land Raider Proteus' = 2 HS Slots each

[Hammer of Olympia]

 

 

Delagatus

 

2x min. veteran squads with sniper

2x Land Raider proteus

 

3x Predators with heavy bolters

 

Sacrifices Orth, but you've got some points still to use I think.

wogh the amount of armor there is massive,are you taking the sacred duty ROW or armored assault?

 

Sacred Duty.

 

3 Preds can be taken as a Squadron = 1 HS Slot

2 Land Raider Proteus' = 2 HS Slots each

 

sadly the list is over 10 points

[Slips]

 

 

 

Delagatus

 

2x min. veteran squads with sniper

2x Land Raider proteus

 

3x Predators with heavy bolters

 

Sacrifices Orth, but you've got some points still to use I think.

wogh the amount of armor there is massive,are you taking the sacred duty ROW or armored assault?

 

Sacred Duty.

 

3 Preds can be taken as a Squadron = 1 HS Slot

2 Land Raider Proteus' = 2 HS Slots each

 

sadly the list is over 10 points

 

 

 

Remove the Heavy Bolters from one Predator, give the Delegatus Artificer Armor.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Hammer of Olympia]

 

 

 

 

Delagatus

 

2x min. veteran squads with sniper

2x Land Raider proteus

 

3x Predators with heavy bolters

 

Sacrifices Orth, but you've got some points still to use I think.

wogh the amount of armor there is massive,are you taking the sacred duty ROW or armored assault?

 

Sacred Duty.

 

3 Preds can be taken as a Squadron = 1 HS Slot

2 Land Raider Proteus' = 2 HS Slots each

 

sadly the list is over 10 points

 

 

 

Remove the Heavy Bolters from one Predator, give the Delegatus Artificer Armor.

 

aight,so what will the vets and delegatus do? do they hop in the Proteus and pack together with the preds?

[Slips]

Yup. Sniper Bolters means you're still wounding everything on a 4+ and 6s are Ap2. So just hop out, Shoot and avoid getting charged by Dedicated assault units. Use Av14 to shield them 'cuz 11 PA bodies dont live all that long.