[HH1.0] Salamanders Tactics

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

As I learnt from stripping my Salamander Tartaros to EC, put them in dettol in a glass sealed jar (say a acurry or pasta sauce one) in the morning, keep an eye on them, I ended up taking mine out after about 6/7 hours I think, use kitchen roll to get most of the paint off and an old toothbrush for any sticking in, then put them in a sealed jar in warm soapy water for about a day.
Just keep an eye and check it periodically.
Has anyone had luck with salamander command squads?

[Caillum]

I'm in a bit of a bind ladies & gentlemen. I'm going around in circles trying to make a list to represent the crew of the Ebon Drake. The chapter "Upon the Anvil of War" in Book VI was completely awesome, and I would love to try building an army to reflect it. I also own Cassian Dracos, Nârik Dreygur and a tonne of Salamanders parts from my 40k army, so there's a financial incentive to try this out!

 

Here's what I need/want in the list:

- Cassian Dracos Reborn

- Xiaphas Jurr

- Nârik Dreygur

- compulsory Troops

- Dreadclaw.

 

That's 690 points, not including Nârik Dreygur's robots or any compulsory Troops. Here's my thoughts so far:

- I keep swinging between Vorax and Castellax for Nârik Dreygur. He gains Zealot and Rage when within 12" of Cassian Dracos, so I want them to be combat-oriented. Vorax will dish out more damage, but Castellax will be infinitely tougher.

- Dreygur can also take an Iron Warriors Veteran Squad (which doesn't take up an Elites choice). This is nifty, but not really adding any more than a Salamanders one would (and I don't think I'll need more than 4 Elite choices).

- Troops I am completely open to. Xiaphas Jurr needs a squad to rock around with, and he has Zealot and the Prescience psychic power, so a blob of Tacticals occurred to me.

- the Dreadclaw is kinda mandatory, as a footslogging Cassian Dracos is not nearly threatening enough. I'm trying to decide if I should take more Drop Pods and theme the army that way.

- in "Upon the Anvil of War", the crew of the Ebon Drake pick up some Raven Guard and 3 Iron Hands Cataphractii Terminators. The Raven Guard I contemplated fielding as Seekers (with combi-plasmas and a Scouting Proteus). The Iron Hands could easily be represented as part of a squad of Firedrakes.

 

So there it is. Trying to fit these components into a reasonably-sized list is really hard. There's also no way to run a Rite of War, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing. And to run all 3 characters, I need the standard Crusade Force Org, so no Onslaught or Castellan. Not looking to smash face with this army, but it needs to be playable! :)

 

Any suggestions?

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Perhaps a veteran squad with power weapons for Xiaphas, to benefit from zealot?

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Just wondering what people's luck has been with Firedrakes? So far for me all they have done is kill a contemptor then lose combat, break and be cut down by a tactical squad in one game and in another they failed every invun save after their land raider got one shotted by a mechanicum medusa turn one.
I know it's luck based, but considering my luck with them I'm thinking of just running normal terminators as they are much cheaper.

[Charlo]

That is some TERRIBAD luck!

 

Though I certainly wouldn't throw them at a contemptor willy nilly...

 

It's still only a 5 to Glance them and in return if you fail that 3++ you lose a 2W model.

 

They do best punishing Primarchs/ Other Terminators without fists etc.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

That is some TERRIBAD luck!

 

Though I certainly wouldn't throw them at a contemptor willy nilly...

 

It's still only a 5 to Glance them and in return if you fail that 3++ you lose a 2W model.

 

They do best punishing Primarchs/ Other Terminators without fists etc.

The contemptor had lost is's DCCW to the land raider's lascannon...

I mean I have a game against Alpha legion (next to no idea what he is taking, except he is expecting me to hate it, but Alpha legion are slippery like that) and I have thought about takeing the fire drakes, but they eat so many points into the army, and if I take regular terminators I can afford to get a consol with MC hammer, aa and refractor field to lead one of my tactical squads/flanks and gear up some of my sergeants or another Rhino.

I really do love the idea, fluff and rules for the fire drakes, but in 2000 and even 2500pts they eat up so many points.

[Akis]

How do you use the most friendly legion? I think of the allied detachmente Ravens. Infiltrate, deepstrike, outflank, and fluff of the allies with Isstvan. As long as the enemy is busy Ravens, come primary Salamanders with meltas, flamers and hammers. Covenant of fire + Decapitation strike.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

You can only use one RoW iirc, on your primary detachment.

 

Also some RoW restrict allies but I dont remember if this is the case for cof or ds.

[Charlo]

You can only use one RoW iirc, on your primary detachment.

 

Also some RoW restrict allies but I dont remember if this is the case for cof or ds.

 

You can use a RoW per detachment if you wish. You just need a master of the Legion in that detachment and an army total of 1k points per MotL.

 

So, for example, you can run a DG "The Reaping" In Primary Detachment, with a NL "Terror Assault" in the allied.

 

Both would need to have a Master of the Legion in each and the army total would need to be 2k points minimum.

 

Fun rule is that often many Rites that do NOT allow allies are okay to be used as an allied.

 

The Legion specific Rites in Book 6 though must be the Primary Detachment though.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

 

You can only use one RoW iirc, on your primary detachment.

 

Also some RoW restrict allies but I dont remember if this is the case for cof or ds.

 

You can use a RoW per detachment if you wish. You just need a master of the Legion in that detachment and an army total of 1k points per MotL.

 

So, for example, you can run a DG "The Reaping" In Primary Detachment, with a NL "Terror Assault" in the allied.

 

Both would need to have a Master of the Legion in each and the army total would need to be 2k points minimum.

 

Fun rule is that often many Rites that do NOT allow allies are okay to be used as an allied.

 

The Legion specific Rites in Book 6 though must be the Primary Detachment though.

 

 

Ah, I am a dunce. Thanks for the correction.

 

To any Maths Wizards out there, can you mathammer how Pyroclast squad and Praetorstick would do as a "do or die" charge against TEQ?

 

My theory is to have 8 'Clasts, a Warden with a MC powerfist and a suitably kitted Praetor in a Phobos. They charge a maximum of 10 terminators, so fire 9 BS4 S9AP1 shots, which should melt a few Terminators at minimum. The paragon blade should then dice a couple more and if needed the Warden can pulp something with his fist. All of this (bar the violent fisting) should happen before the Terminators can hit back, so they should take a crippling amount of casualties and are swiftly removed.

 

However, you can also drown a unit in S5 templates, so I wasn't sure if this quantity over quality approach would be better than the above?

[Black Cohort]

I think the answer to quality vs quantity with the pyroclasts depends on the invulnerable save on the terminators. If they only have a 5++ then the quality will be better, otherwise they still have a 50/50 shot of surviving so quantity can be better if you can hit enough models. Note that I did no actual math just going off what makes sense ro me.

[Caillum]

Focused Pyroclast flame projectors are only S6, not S9.

 

But aside from that, they are quite simply not an assault unit. Though they're not bad in a counter-assault, or as a defensive unit. Take 6, add an Apothecary and a Consul with a boarding shield, and put them in a Scouting Land Raider Proteus. First turn they move forward, disembark, and shoot at something nasty. Then you hold fast and receive the enemy charge. Having 6d3 S5 autohits and defensive grenades is a pretty good deterrent. The Consul adds some much needed melee punch, and the Apothecary makes them even tougher. Could even just take a Primus Medicae and call it a day. :)

[Charlo]

Personally, I wouldn't pour points into a unit just to make them half decent at combat.

 

While it's unlikely you'll be swept in combat due to the Salamander rules, you also won't be dishing out my pain back with the Pyro's in the assault phase.

 

Pair them with a buddy unit of Terminators however (or weapon master vets etc) and suddenly the plan comes together.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Alright, so perhaps disembark and blap with meltas, then dare them to charge? Edited October 17, 2016 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Charlo]

Quite possible yeah. Especially if you then trap them for a turn and counter charge.

 

But anything with axes will mince you, even with an apothecary etc.

[primalexile]

Fellow Drakes, 

 

A little over a year and a half ago I set out to make a Salamander army, it pretty much focused on the typical deathstar..

 

Vulkan

Firedrakes 

Apothecary

Spartan

Sicaran

Fire Raptor

 

30 Tac Troops with a mix of heavy flamers, combi-meltas

 

Long story short, I had a lot of it commission painted, it took awhile to get everything back (I moved during the process buying a house) long story short I got them back and never got to play a game. Fast forward awhile and I am looking to get back into the game and finally use the Sons of Vulkan I have a couple questions, hopefully you fine folks can help with.

 

Is the Vulkan//Firedrake deathstar still valid? I am going to be gaming at 2500 points, I don't care about winning every game, my meta is new to 30k I want to be able to give as good as I get, I 100% want to make use of Vulkan.

With the rule changes is there any must takes these days? I have a decent insurance settlement and plan on ordering whatever I need to round out a force that can field 2500 - 3000 points.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Vulkan and firedrakes is still valid. At 2.5k it is very points in one basket strategy. Vulkan and friends will killl whatever they touch

 

Do you like Pyroclasts? If your meta isnt 30k you might fight lots of infantry heavy armies where they excel. They are a more flexible heavy flamer support squad.

 

The best RoW gives you MC melta weapons abd a heat based 5 up invuln on vehicles. No deep strike though.

Edited October 21, 2016 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Carraigf]

Hey folks - so I have the opportunity to purchase a Proteus but not sure if I should hold out and wait/save for the armoured version.

I'll be running it with augur array and a load of Pyros or plain with a max squad of 10 - what's your thoughts - is it worth having the twin linked hull mounted HBs or HFs or should I just go vanilla..

[helterskelter]

Sorry to poke my nose into somewhere I don't venture all that often but a few tactical questions as I was having a play about with a sallies list and noticed firedrakes/praetor and their transport take up a fair old whack out of any list theyre included in.

Is this standard going for their inclusion?

[Black Cohort]

I haven't run firedrakes often, but they tend to be the focus of your list if you are running anything less than 2500 points, even then they will be a big chunk. They are like any other expensive deathstar.

[Charlo]

They are part of what makes Salamanders... Well Salamanders. They're expensive but hot damn do they not die.

 

Preator with Mantle of the Drake is basically harder than any other Preator.

 

Firedrakes are insane.

 

Add in a primus medicae and you have some real nasty stuff (though dubious of use as you will probably be targetted by S8+ to mitigate your 2W).

 

But yeah - Spartan + HQS + Drakes is an easy 1k, after the troops choices you're very skint. 

[helterskelter]

Is above 1k tooled

I'd also squeezed in 2 lots of heavy support squads one all with heavy flamers, one with multimelta, both in rhinos.

Then 2 tac squads in rhino and pyroclasts for around 2.5k with a couple of points left over (like I said just messing around for now, but prospero keeps the noggin moving)

[Charlo]

Give those MM an auguary scanner and totally annihilate anything that drops in.

[Tlob]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

 

Can someone sell me on pyroclasts, because I feel like I'm missing something on how they're worth fielding over a regular tactical support squad with flamers. My concern is about their cost relative to their role as a unit that has to put itself in direct harms way to carry out its role. The tactical support squad comes in at 40% less points for the base squad and for additional models, and has the opportunity to take a much cheaper transport. Is the increased toughness of the pyroclasts in the weathering the ensuing counter attack worth their increased cost? It occurs to me that once they've unloaded and fired, both units will be equally vulnerable to melee, where they are equally terrible, however the tacticals would be able to field more bodies, bringing more flamers to fire at the assaulting unit.

 

Am I crazy here? 

[Black Cohort]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

 

Can someone sell me on pyroclasts, because I feel like I'm missing something on how they're worth fielding over a regular tactical support squad with flamers. My concern is about their cost relative to their role as a unit that has to put itself in direct harms way to carry out its role. The tactical support squad comes in at 40% less points for the base squad and for additional models, and has the opportunity to take a much cheaper transport. Is the increased toughness of the pyroclasts in the weathering the ensuing counter attack worth their increased cost? It occurs to me that once they've unloaded and fired, both units will be equally vulnerable to melee, where they are equally terrible, however the tacticals would be able to field more bodies, bringing more flamers to fire at the assaulting unit.

 

Am I crazy here?

Pyroclasts also have the secondary fire mode for their weapons, multiple strength 6 Ap2 melta shots can be helpful where mass flamer templates aren't. If you are close enough you can slag basically any vehicle without armoured ceramite.

 

Also don't pyroclasts have a vet stat line so are 2 attacks per marine? They might not be great at assault but it could be a valuable tactic to deal with a couple survivors of your mass template. Often you want melee to last 2 rounds so your squad can't be shot in the enemy turn.