What 2014 will bring

[Morticon]

 

Just to make it clear, when I say 'worse' it's strictly from a power/tier perspective.

 

All the newer codex have fixed the internal balance so that there's much fewer of those terribad units that are almost like playing with a handicap.

I can't be the only one who's looking forward to dusting off underused units like bikers or tacticals.

But surely if you wanna play with tacs you use smurfs, if you wanna use bikes you run Raven guard- etc etc.?

 

 

For all of 2nd ed, and then all of 3rd ed and most of 4th, we had a dex that didnt favour jumpers - especially not in any Troop role.  Our penchant for assault was just noted in fluff.    BA for the longest, longest time were framed as "largely or predominantly" codex adherent.  

 

It's part of what made their tragic flaw  and the fight against it so noble - the striving for the Marine ideal, while the blood lust slowly takes hold.  

 

Tactical squad Rhino rushes were a real deal thing for the better of a decade with BA.   Its only since the PDF that we've had the whole scoring troop jumper thing.  

Personally, i hope for a return to these roots- the BA core of MARINES and tactical marines that can bring it like the best of them.

[Charlo]

Just to make it clear, when I say 'worse' it's strictly from a power/tier perspective.

All the newer codex have fixed the internal balance so that there's much fewer of those terribad units that are almost like playing with a handicap.

I can't be the only one who's looking forward to dusting off underused units like bikers or tacticals.

But surely if you wanna play with tacs you use smurfs, if you wanna use bikes you run Raven guard- etc etc.?

For all of 2nd ed, and then all of 3rd ed and most of 4th, we had a dex that didnt favour jumpers - especially not in any Troop role. Our penchant for assault was just noted in fluff. BA for the longest, longest time were framed as "largely or predominantly" codex adherent.

It's part of what made their tragic flaw and the fight against it so noble - the striving for the Marine ideal, while the blood lust slowly takes hold.

Tactical squad Rhino rushes were a real deal thing for the better of a decade with BA. Its only since the PDF that we've had the whole scoring troop jumper thing.

Personally, i hope for a return to these roots- the BA core of MARINES and tactical marines that can bring it like the best of them.

This is an awesome theme, but after falling in love with Jump packs I really hope we get the best of both worlds. Keep us where we are (letting us field pretty much anything vanilla can) with a few changes and unique units (DC, Furioso) and points updates/ rules balances.

Oh and also; give me Centurions, I keep seeing Grav ones in games online and I want that fire-power. It's... It's... Beautiful (but I guess if not I'll just play unbound and still paint them in my scheme )

[ElectricPaladin]

The thing is, the Marine 'dexes struggle to distinguish themselves in the atmosphere of creative glut. To continue to justify the Blood Angels as an entirely separate codex, GW needs to make them sufficiently different from other Marine codices. Having them favor a particular unit is one way to do that. I already think that the Marine codexes are too similar. We need the Blood Angels to be more than the fast red marines with a special tank and weird veteran squads and death company. You don't need an entire codex to communicate that!

[Silverson]

The thing is, the Marine 'dexes struggle to distinguish themselves in the atmosphere of creative glut. To continue to justify the Blood Angels as an entirely separate codex, GW needs to make them sufficiently different from other Marine codices. Having them favor a particular unit is one way to do that. I already think that the Marine codexes are too similar. We need the Blood Angels to be more than the fast red marines with a special tank and weird veteran squads and death company. You don't need an entire codex to communicate that!

 

this sums up what I feel about the current space marine chapters in general and with the 4 stand alone marine codecies trying to keep there individuality on the table top. I think that with the current restrictions/parameters of standard play of mandatory 1 hq and 2 troops it is the unique to chapter troop choices that separate ba,da,gk and sw enough from the codex space marine armies with the option to still play similar to c:sm.

 

with the recent changes games workshop have done with the foc/formations of both space wolves the 2-4 hqs?and the 1 hq 1 troop (i think sorry if i got this wrong) of grey knights there is a very real possibility of us seeing us gaining a foc of something along the lines of  these.

 

with that I think we will either get our assault troops moved to fast attack but be given a foc of mandatory 1hq, 1 troop and 1 fast attack. (tho id think it unlickly) or we will see them remain as troops choice and we retain the traditional 1hq 2 troops mandatory.

[thebymster]

As a foot note to that, Silverson: if you fork out for q supplement your foc options tend to get wider- SW can have a bound army of 4 HQ and 8 elites!! Without wanting to go off topic in that direction- I think it's been said here before that Astorath might loose his 1-6 DCo enhancer and have it put in a suppliment.? That's another 30 buckaroos thank you gents!

[Angelus Mortifer]

As a foot note to that, Silverson: if you fork out for q supplement your foc options tend to get wider- SW can have a bound army of 4 HQ and 8 elites!! Without wanting to go off topic in that direction- I think it's been said here before that Astorath might loose his 1-6 DCo enhancer and have it put in a suppliment.? That's another 30 buckaroos thank you gents!

I still think "All DC" and "All Sanguinary Guard" will appear as formations/dataslates rather than a supplement. Supplements allow access to the full range of the FOC list that a Successor Chapter (FT for example) would benefit from. There's not enough variation in those divisions of the Chapter to warrant a full Supplement.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

Personally, i hope for a return to these roots- the BA core of MARINES and tactical marines that can bring it like the best of them.

 

 

PRAISE THE EMPEROR I AGREE.

[SamaNagol]

Marines in Rhinos work because they get out and shoot something. Or shoot something from the top with suitable number of special weapons nice and quickly due to some sort of scout/outflank move.

 

I can see cheap Assault Marines with double Melta in Fast Rhinos being useful for a reduced cost. But White Scars would do that better.

 

But seeing as we are one of two books that can get Objective Secured Land Raiders, there may be something in that. Especially when they are cheaper as well.

 

It's weird. There's loads of things in the BA book that are good on paper, but they don't really synergise with each other too well in 7th.

 

I'm just eagerly awaiting getting my hands on the book and seeing what is possible.

[SonOfThunder]

All-jumper is what drove me to the BA dex, I hope the option is still there without resorting to unbound. They can put assaulters in FA again, but I hope at least there's a detachment that has, say 1 HQ and 2-6 FA. I don't care too much about obsec, if there's another benefit to be had, like giving DoA only to the jumper detachment, or some revisited deep striking similar to the deathwing but with jumper squads. In the last codices however the jumper theme has been all over the place, and I hope they keep it.

[appiah4]

Now that there is Unbound for jumper lists, there is no reason for BA to have ASM as Troops, fluff-wise.  We are not THE jumppack chapter, we never were.  That's Raven Guard.  We were not THE fast chapter, that's White Scars.  We were the ANGRY chapter; give us an interesting Red Thirst rule that is both a boon and a handicap.  I love Tactical Squads, and I miss 3rd Edition.  Up the Bolters!

[Spagunk]

...We were the ANGRY chapter...

 

 

See, when I started in 3rd edition that was not exactly the impression I got. In the 3rd Ed rulebook it says that BA prominently feature more jump troop which then goes on to say it is a vanilla marine chapter but can field jump units in the elite slot as well as fast attack. The 3rd ed. mini-dex adjusts this by making veteran jump marines a thing (Jump Infantry Honor guard too) while keeping jump troops Fast attack. Still in line more or less with codex adhering but gave the reader the impression that "Hey, these guys really like jump troops!". The rage part was more like "This is why they like jump troops".

 

At the same time, raven guard wasn't really the "Jump Troop" chapter as much as Blood Angels. Raven Guard also liked jump troops because of the whole crow thing but they never made it out to be theirs; It was a Blood Angel thing before hand.

 

Not saying you are wrong here but I got an entirely different perspective of what BA were and are. They REALLY like jump troops. They'd have an entire Jump Troop Chapter if they could but the darn codex astartes says they're not allowed to.

[sockwithaticket]

Raven Guard aren't the jump marines so much as they're the stealth/surgical strike marines and jump packs help with quick insertion and extraction. Ditto White Scars aren't the fast marines, they're the mounted marines.

It's all a bit moot as all marine forces are, fluff-wise, supposed to be mechanised strike forces, but if that were rigidly stuck to we'd all be using the same Vanilla list rather than vanilla + chapter tactics or special snowflake codices and GW would probably sell far fewer marines.

I've been BA since the mini-dex and what I always took from that was not that we were angry marines, but that we were angelic marines who saw opportunities on the battlefield to satiate our darker urges. Nuance and complexity, that is what the Sons of Sanguinius are about.

[Jorre]

I would think that we will keep jumpers as troops. Descent of angels rule would be pretty useless without the whole army being able to take jump packs

[appiah4]

I would think that we will keep jumpers as troops. Descent of angels rule would be pretty useless without the whole army being able to take jump packs

 

It has been useless for two editions now.

[TheHarrower]

Now that there is Unbound for jumper lists, there is no reason for BA to have ASM as Troops, fluff-wise.  We are not THE jumppack chapter, we never were.  That's Raven Guard.  We were not THE fast chapter, that's White Scars.  We were the ANGRY chapter; give us an interesting Red Thirst rule that is both a boon and a handicap.  I love Tactical Squads, and I miss 3rd Edition.  Up the Bolters!

 

I don't really agree with this. Blood Angels are the chapter that specializes in using jump packs for assault and all of our Rhino chassis our fast with lucifer engines. White Scars just rock bikes. From the current Codex:

 

“…given the Blood Angels’ predilection for jump packs in general, and close assault in particular, there is rarely a shortage of battle-brothers with suitable training and temperament to fill Assault Squad rosters as casualties occur. So it is that Assault Squads are likely to remain at full strength, even though the rest of the strike force be woefully undermanned."

 

There is a thread on perception of what the Blood Angels are fluff wise here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298411-are-we-chaos/ It's worth a read. Don't let the thread title dissuade you.

I can't be the only one who's looking forward to dusting off underused units like bikers or tacticals.

 

Nope. I don't even have an assembled Tactical Squad for my Blood Angels currently. How sad is that?

[Xenith]

My BA have always been company based. Armies generally feature 1-2 tac, 1 assault, 1 dev squad, unless I'm trying something new.

 

I'd love for BA tactical rhino rush to be back on the menu. I'd love it BA rhino's gain Jink. That would be hilarious.

 

At this point, I'm not totally sure what we'll get, but the 'codex bet' thread is going to be fun when it's released!

[ElectricPaladin]

 

Now that there is Unbound for jumper lists, there is no reason for BA to have ASM as Troops, fluff-wise.  We are not THE jumppack chapter, we never were.  That's Raven Guard.  We were not THE fast chapter, that's White Scars.  We were the ANGRY chapter; give us an interesting Red Thirst rule that is both a boon and a handicap.  I love Tactical Squads, and I miss 3rd Edition.  Up the Bolters!

 

I don't really agree with this. Blood Angels are the chapter that specializes in using jump packs for assault and all of our Rhino chassis our fast with lucifer engines. White Scars just rock bikes. From the current Codex:

 

“…given the Blood Angels’ predilection for jump packs in general, and close assault in particular, there is rarely a shortage of battle-brothers with suitable training and temperament to fill Assault Squad rosters as casualties occur. So it is that Assault Squads are likely to remain at full strength, even though the rest of the strike force be woefully undermanned."

 

There is a thread on perception of what the Blood Angels are fluff wise here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298411-are-we-chaos/ It's worth a read. Don't let the thread title dissuade you.

I can't be the only one who's looking forward to dusting off underused units like bikers or tacticals.

 

Nope. I don't even have an assembled Tactical Squad for my Blood Angels currently. How sad is that?

 

 

I've got a couple of tac squads and a big bike squad. The former excited me less - I mean, ok, I use 'em, and they're ok, but they're not exactly tasty - but I'd be really excited for bikers to get useful.

[thebymster]

 

 

I would think that we will keep jumpers as troops. Descent of angels rule would be pretty useless without the whole army being able to take jump packs

It has been useless for two editions now.

In what way do you find it useless?

[Blindhamster]

I always thought it was okay, but have a preference for comboing stern guard in a pod with vanguard under current rules

[thebymster]

If you get an inquisitor with servo skulls as ally that spices it up a bit: DoA: use 1 D6 for scatter. Servo Skulls: use one less D6 than usual for determining scatter!

[Anver Cassiel]

 

I've got a couple of tac squads and a big bike squad. The former excited me less - I mean, ok, I use 'em, and they're ok, but they're not exactly tasty - but I'd be really excited for bikers to get useful.

 

 

i have two tactical squads and a small bike squadron and really hate feeling like im punishing myself if i use them. I have the assault squad too, but w/o JP just for fun, but would love to see assault marines stay in the troops section.

 

Cassiel

 

(edited for grammar)

[Sviox]

If you get an inquisitor with servo skulls as ally that spices it up a bit: DoA: use 1 D6 for scatter. Servo Skulls: use one less D6 than usual for determining scatter!

 

Well, "one less D6 than usual" from the usual 2D6 is 1D6. DoA is not usual, it's a special rule. I think they do the same thing effectively, without stacking.

[InquisitorBlack]

They do stack

[knife&fork]

The problem with deep strike isn't scatter, it's how you end up in a nice little circle and have to pick between shooting (which close combat units do not excel at) or make a run move and hope you get a good roll.

[Angelus Mortifer]

If you get an inquisitor with servo skulls as ally that spices it up a bit: DoA: use 1 D6 for scatter. Servo Skulls: use one less D6 than usual for determining scatter!

Well, "one less D6 than usual" from the usual 2D6 is 1D6. DoA is not usual, it's a special rule. I think they do the same thing effectively, without stacking.

I think it's open to interpretation though (another one of those rules issues ), not that I'm laying my hat on either side of this one. Usual for scatter is 2D6' yes, but usual for Blood Angels is 1D6". Unless the rules for Servo Skulls (which I don't have to hand) defines specifically what "usual" is, you could argue they do stack and indeed provide precision Deep Strike for BA.