The Lost and Forgotten: Building the II Legion

[depthcharge12]

Empyrean Waves?

 

Lol

 

You should have some Castellax named Oni because they are constructs inhabited by daemon spirits :P

[Athrawes]

@Kor'vesh & Whohitjohn: I definitely want to make a contemptor, but I'm kind of on the fence of making it a samurai death machine. For most of the army, I feel like the Japanese ornamentation has been fairly understated and I'm not sure how to convey that with a giant dreadnaught Katana, I was more leaning towards starting with the Iron Hands contemptor and turning it into a Librarian Dreadnought. I do agree that a giant katana checks all the boxes for the "rule of cool" but Im just terrified that by going with a giant katana, I would be turning the army into a parody of itself. Thoughts on that as a I am weary of going too far?

 

There is always the possibility to make the conetemptor either a Volta contemptor (dreadnought Volkite gunsliger with converted volkite "revolvers" or an Oni contemptor... which is suppose might make sense to give a force weapon...hmmm

 

@1000heathens: That crest is beautiful and definitely conveys the feel of the army(maybe it could be the company crest), but where to put it... It might add a bit of diversity to the army to add a small banner to the the next squad vexilla. Or, that crest might look good on the side of a vehicle. Of course, there is always the big blank back of my Legion banner, there are a lot of possibilities.

 

 

Also, expect a PM in a day or two. We must speak, you and I.....

Sounds ominous, feel free to shoot me a PM when ever.

[Slips]

Maybe make the contemptor dread have a more stylized samurai armor on the body rather than use the weapon to give it it's identity? Although this is dependent on how comfortable you are in converting a C-Dread. 

 

If you make it an Oni-Dread, maybe modify the helm into an Oni-mask type deal? And instead of just a straight up Katana, give it a Naginata as a count-as Force Halberd and make the other arm a customized conversion beam? Although a double volkite wielding dread would be pretty awesome.

 

Just shooting out some ideas to get those creative juices flowing!

[helterskelter]

The first alternate scence in sucker punch where the lady fights the 3 samurai monsters, if you build a contemptor with the mega assault cannon like the one in that scene as long as you're b- I'll promise you a kidney

[FearTheReaperMan]

So I created an account just because I love this thread so much... Keep up the great work. As for your contemptor dilema, my years of playing command and conquer gave me this idea: 

http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Steel_Ronin

 

The Steel Ronin from Red Alert 3, maybe you could use some elements from it? I really dig the giant chest horns he's got going on. If you scroll all the way down you can get a better look at his concept art rather than the in game model.

[Whohitjohn]

I was thinking along the same lines as brother slipstreams, I think making the armour look more along the line of lamellar armour. I don't think a giant katana would add anything to the model and I think you might be better to model the dread in one of the fighting stances from jujitsu, with the volkite revolvers in holsters styled like these.

 

https://media2-us.shopto.net/ShopToMedia/images/screenshots/PS3AS25/A.jpg

 

Keeps with that western naval tie in you mentioned :)

 

WHJ

[Terimus]

Looking good! When do you think you're primarch will be done?

[Hyaenidae]

So, I've been thinking about the Dread. Again falling back on Japanese culture and mythology, the dead are honoured (should they have died honourably), but the undead are utterly feared. In their culture, an undead revenant would only return from the other side in the name of vengeance or hatred. After their goal has been achieved (the death of the person that killed them, their master, etc), they return to the grave, forever.

 

To that end, I imagine that the dreads of the II would be very rare. Such a warrior would be both utterly feared, and respected, as they follow a path no living creature should ever walk. Such a life could only be voluntary, a Legionaire who refuses to pass on, until vengeance is complete. Their hulls could be cloaked in white cloth, to prevent evil spirits from overtaking the purity of revenge. A death poem, personally created by him in the tongue of his homeland, should be pinned to his hull, an oath of moment that goes beyond the point of death. Beyond that, and possibly some of the wave like art in strategic places (the water painted red to represent his anger, coming to crash down upon his enemy he is vowed to kill), I would leave the armour largely clean. Purity is all.

 

Now, here's the kicker I've been thinking.I think that, after the vow of revenge is complete, the warrior would commit suicide if he had not fallen in battle. No, I don't mean he would take his short sword and cut open his sarcophagus, lol. Instead, he would simply bow to his defeated enemy, kneel, repeat his death poem, and shut off his life support system, dying silently within his hull and drowning in the amniotic fuild. His brothers would remove his body after he had passed on, wrap him in white, and burn his broken body. Should his vow have been successfully completed, a red ribbon would be attached to the hull, marking the 'weapon' (the dreadnought hull itself) as 'Divine'.

 

Again, just thinking out loud brother. :)  And I'll shoot that PM to you soon, I just have to solidify a few last ideas...

[Conn Eremon]

That dreadnought philosophy (requires consent, only ever done in pursuit of revenge/unfinished business and is exceptionally rare) can be seen in the 40k White Scars, as elaborated on by FFG's Deathwatch series (or at least this is where I always remember reading about it).

 

I'm not saying this because it invalidates 1000heathens' idea, but it might be something to keep in mind if you do go that route. How can you make it more original to your Legion, or how can you tie this other Legion's future practice to your, by then long dead, Legion?

[Whohitjohn]

@Cormac Airt I haven't read the deathwatch series but from stuff I've read about internment in to a dreadnought it's only when a warrior is to badly injured to carry on fighting for the emperor but to stubborn to die that they are placed in a sarcophagus and became a dreadnought. If it is the case that in the 40k universe that the space marine must give consent then prohaps it is the old 30k practice of the forgotten legion that created this golden rule. Think about it, if the emperor wanted them truly forgotten then it stands to reason any practice or links to the legions practices would also be outlawed as well. By the time of the 41st millennium there's only one warrior left who would remember why and he's to loyal to shear those secrets. The rest would believe that it has always been so.

 

Just my 2p on it

 

WHJ

[GhostMalone]

Heathens that was awesome I think you need to watch the series requiem it's right up that ally

[Kor'Vesh]

@Athrawes - obviously you are correct. I do think a katana, done correctly, could work, and not be a para dodgy of itself. But you'd need to develop the background and model carefully yourself, as you always have. Nothing here suggests you couldn't handle it beautifully, if that's how you decide to go. There are some awesome ideas above, so I'm sure you'll end up with a great dread!

 

Volta dread sounds awesome, but I'd save that for a second contemptor further down the line.

 

How is our surprise coming? :)

[Hyaenidae]

That dreadnought philosophy (requires consent, only ever done in pursuit of revenge/unfinished business and is exceptionally rare) can be seen in the 40k White Scars, as elaborated on by FFG's Deathwatch series (or at least this is where I always remember reading about it).

 

I'm not saying this because it invalidates 1000heathens' idea, but it might be something to keep in mind if you do go that route. How can you make it more original to your Legion, or how can you tie this other Legion's future practice to your, by then long dead, Legion?

 

Serious? I've never heard that. Last I knew, Dreads were just a straight-up no no for the Scars. That's one hell of a retcon.

[Barabbas Sogalon]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but how were the Terrans treated in the II Legion? Was there a divide between them and the newer recruits (like the XIV) or was the legion more unified?

 

The fate of Terran legionaries is something that has always interested me.

[Conn Eremon]

 

 

That dreadnought philosophy (requires consent, only ever done in pursuit of revenge/unfinished business and is exceptionally rare) can be seen in the 40k White Scars, as elaborated on by FFG's Deathwatch series (or at least this is where I always remember reading about it).

 

I'm not saying this because it invalidates 1000heathens' idea, but it might be something to keep in mind if you do go that route. How can you make it more original to your Legion, or how can you tie this other Legion's future practice to your, by then long dead, Legion?

Serious? I've never heard that. Last I knew, Dreads were just a straight-up no no for the Scars. That's one hell of a retcon.

I believe it was an attempt to soften an absolute fluff restriction in the face of people ignoring it mechanically, while attempting to hold true to the core fluff.

 

But anywho, I don't want to go too far down a non-II Legion topic.

[Athrawes]

A promised I have your surprise, A teaser image of Icarion.
http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i327/nickfayette1/unnamed2.jpg
I am so, incredibly pleased with how his sculpt is turning out, I genuinely think that when he is done he'll be able to stand alongside the Forgeworld Primarchs and not look out of place.

He is a bit tall, standing 6cm while the other Forgeworld Primarchs stand approx. 5-5.5cm. However, Primarchs like Ferrus are described in the fluff as being a head taller than his brothers and Magnus is supposed to be a bit of a giant.

Do you think that size is too big? (For reference, a standard space marine model's head comes up to the bottom lip of his Chestplate.

+++++++++++++++++

Finally your other surprise, the Concept work for a scene depicting Sentinel Athrawes during the siege of Madrigal and the death of the II Legion.

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i327/nickfayette1/unnamed.jpg

Edit: Mr. Swaid's description of the scene:

""He is surrounded and fighting in his last stand facing hordes of Slaanesh demons. I wanted to show him a bit in action firing his plasma gun and pulling his sword from a demon's guts. his armor is going to be damaged his face is bruised and maybe a nose bleed as well for more drama. in the background I will show parts of the buildings they are in or what is left of it, in the sky you will see gigantic asteroid , pink flames engulfing them in their way to bombard what is left of the capital.

As always, please let me know what you think.

[Athrawes]

Finally, the Icarion sculpt has me floored, I was really wrong about the proportions looking skewed. He looks fantastic, and I think he will definitely hold his own when placed across the table or next to a Forgeworld Primarch! 

[marine7312000]

That teaser of your Primarch just makes me want to see more.

[Whohitjohn]

Got to say Athrawes, Icarion is looking mighty. I don't think the size will be an issue, after all there's no reference to his size. Can't wait to see more.

[Athrawes]

@Slipstreams: Thanks for the cool Ideas, I think that down the road I definitely must make a Volta Contemptor.

@Healterskelter: I just searched that clip on youtube=Awesome. Although it looks like it would be a bit hard to turn a contemptor into that kind of awesomeness.

@Fearthereaperman: That's a huge compliment, thanks man!

@1000heathens: That was, wow, I can't. yeah, It will be done. Simply put  it's a beautiful Idea, one I hadn't considered and one that I have to do now.

@Whohitjohn: Thanks, I'm really glad you like him!

@Barabas Sogalon: The II Legion was found early (3rd) So there wouldn't be a great number of Terrans left in the legion by the time of the SIege. The Legion has all the 20 or so worlds of the Madrigal Co Prosperity Sphere to recruit from so they sort of have a built in bias towards accepting 'foreign' legionaries.

 

That being said, There might have been a few ruffled feathers among the Terrans when Icarion took over. His Gene seed is predisposed to unlock psychic potential. Among Legionaries from Madrigal or the wider 'Empire', this is fine because of a cultural desire to subdue, calm and control nascent psychic powers. Among the Terrans, there is no such restraint in the use of psychic gifts. Eventually this led to a duel of Psychic Ideologies. The Terrans and some non-Madrigal Legionaries siding with Magnus in the Librarius Debates, while the rest followed the teachings of the Astral college.

 

Eventually those Legionaries with a desire to explore their psychic gifts were allowed to establish their own 'Celestial Order' along side Volta of the Blue shield, and Oni of the Red Path. Thats's actually something  I want to touch on down the road. While those two Orders of the Astral college are the most prominent, there are many others. 

 

• Kitsune of the Golden Blossom
• Aki of the White Hill
• Tengue of the Jade Diamond
• Sha of the Black star

So basically, the Terran Psykers formed their own Librarius within the orders of the Astral college, and while they are considered reckless by the wider legion. Icarion at the urgings of his brother Sanguinius, has allowed them to follow Magnus' more esoteric teachings.

 

 

++++++++++++++++++++

 

I have a quick question I hope someone can answer. I know GW policies on non Games Workshop models, and bits but what is there stance on using a miniature like Icarion, which was purpose sculpted? Would I be able to use him at an event like the Weekender or at Warhammer world?

[marine7312000]

If I'm not mistaken about the only thing you could do with him at an "official" event would be to enter him in Golden Daemon.

[reckoning]

Long time lurker of your thread but I can no longer hold my tongue. Beautiful work. 

 

Nothing else need be spoken.

[Whohitjohn]

I'm not 100% sure and I would email and ask the staff, they are always happy to help, but the rules state that you can use a scratch built model if there's not an official GW or FW model to represent that character. The primark of the 2nd legion will never get a official model so I don't think there will be a problem.

 

Plus based on the skill of your painting and the amazing modelling of Icarion they may even want to show case the project, never know.

[Kor'Vesh]

Well. The sculpt is looking excellent. Very excited to see it finished. I love the artwork too, though the biggest tease of all is the fact that your praetor is fighting a deamonette! Here was I expecting some legion on legion bashing (which I guess will still be there...), wondering if the Salamanders would have got involved and Vulkan's perspective on the destruction of the second after the betrayal on istvaan, and suddenly the Prince of pleasure is having a battle with your boys. Colour me intrigued!

[Greyall]

I love this thread :)