++ AUGUSTUS b'RAASS ++ pre-heresy BRASS SCORPION p.247

[Eldrick Shadowblade]

First, just flat out awesome demon prince. I've enjoyed watching this project since you started it. As for copycatting, it's a mixed bag. I always try to acknowledge people who i've been inspired by, but sometimes if you just forget that you've seen that thing before, or someone with a little more hobby time beats you to the punch. My boss has a saying i've grown fond of: Give people a charitable interpretation of their actions. Maybe they are :cusss who steal and make money off you, maybe they just forget.  Anyway... as always, I'm looking forward to the next great thing out of your imagination!

[Mechanist]

Every one else has already said it but wow man the Deamon prince is amazing and I recon it must be about time for some army shots. And I know we've joked about it before and how you feel the death guard takes much longer but 8 hours is an epic session to get such a model painted fully to such a good standard. I realy feel like it shows off how dry brushing and other techniques can be taken and used by a good painter to great effect.

 

As for the copy Cat I can definitely see just how close those models are the pose and at least half is near identical and the bits are very nearly like for like... 

That said I would call for calm and sensible approach as it could easily blow up into some realy nasty stuff and this board is better than that. So Guys please leave any comments or contact with Den of imagination to Augustus and the Mods it's all to easy to feel like your going in to give support of give that 'Guy a piece of your mind' but it won't help. Advise Augustus here or in pm but please don't overstep the boundaries that all parts of the Gaming industry sees far to often. 

 

As four advise I find it hard to see that he didn't look at WIPs or parts lists as they are just to close to your models, however there is two other possibilities when he may not have known

1. the client built the models and paid for the painting in which case the painter may not have known the inspiration source. 

2. the WIPs are sitting in a pin interest or google image search close together, it wouldn't be the first time a google search has the same model in many stages of WIP to look at.

 

If in the case of 1 it's a fair cop and now he knows he can credit, in the case of 2 well it's not hard to follow a link to the source file locations and galleries and pulling him up on it seems fair though I would use PMs first. Any case where he used this thread for the build isn't really on not to give credit and is basically like recasting in that he's taking advantage of your creative efforts for monetary gain. Though I'd have used PMs first for the primary way of communication.

[Markus_]

That daemon prince is an absolute beast! The pose is fantastically dynamic, complimented by a superb paintjob.

[Krakendoomcool]

Daemon prince looks great. Tentacle hand for the win. You can see now what a good job you've done with the face, the jaw parts particularly. You've done a great job of Nurgling up the various parts that need it, the jump pack for example. Great model. The pose looks like a better fit now it's painted for some reason. Love it. Really unique Nurgle Daemon Prince.

 

Random event. On a hot dark and tired night I had my window open. I thought a massive cockroach had come in and died. I even poked it with a stick before realising it was this daemon prince's fly arm that must have fallen off. Goes to show what a good insect sculpt it is. Felt pretty silly.

 

 

Your First Claw are first rate. No wonder ADB loves them. They are the definitive version. I was blown away when I saw them myself on Eternal Hunt. When I opened the thread in hall of fame I saw your name and naturally assumed they were yours at first, until closer inspection. It would be nearly impossible to make the First Claw without being inspired by yours.

 

Althoguh I'd second Mechanist's call for calm. If he has stolen them (could be commision) he is a clearly a big fan, like the rest of us. Everyone will have their own ideas about how much copying is a faux pas. I myself have copied loads of stuff and think that's what makes these forums great, everyone sharing and helping each other. I too have made plenty of mistakes and faux pas learning the etiquette of the forum.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Krakendoomcool

[Dantay VI]

The Daemon Prince is Putridly beautiful.

 

As for first claw, yours are better... They forgot to deface the Aquila on Talos 

[Sagentus]

The words I spoke when i saw that DP can not be written on this forum ... the wait was well worth while Aug! he looks like an absolutely repugnant beast!

 

As for the copy catting, it would have been nice of them to acknowledge your inspiration ... but anyone who has seen your work would know they have drawn inspiration from your it :) 

[Skeggold]

That is incredible, love the evilness from it!

[gaurdian31]

The prince looks disgustingly lovely. I did notice in pic 3 it looks like there is still a bit of extra flash/sprue right behind the metal bit where the green smoke starts and I can't unsee it. 

 

As for the copy cat, that's a little harder for me to chime in on as I haven't experienced that kind of issue before. I do think keeping calm is a good idea though. Just not really sure what can be done about it.

[Augustus b'Raass]

Thanks for the overwhelming comments on the Prince and the copycat, guys!

Let me be clear: I am absolutely fine with people copying my ideas - I really find it flattering. I take the minutely copying of every single detail - poses, bits, even placement of trophies - of my First Claw as a compliment. I have no problems at all with it. I just think that the fact that he's not referencing me at all is just bad form. Such behaviour isn't good for this forum nor for the entirety of our community. One should give credit where credit is due. 

 

Credit should always be given. For example, I am eternally greatful to DuskRaider for his fantastic Death Guard colour scheme, to Brother Heinrich for his Contemptor engine swap and plasma cannon enhancement, and to a great number of other people that inspired me. And I always reference them and most of the time link to them. It creates trust and promotes and open atmosphere where we all feel good sharing ideas. Not giving credit in my opinion is bad form, that diminishes all those things. 

 

I wouldn't have been as miffed as I have when this guy was just a sole hobbyist making a social faux pas. But Den of Imagination is a professional studio, and they're making money off my idea. I'm not after that money at all but I think that if you're monetizing on someones else's ideas, your should at least acknowledge that you are. 

Now, they could, as Mechanist has suggested, been ignorant of my work. But then the guy who sent them the miniatures for them to paint, should have given credit. So I sent them a polite PM here and on their FB page asking to credit me in all their publications. That's it. I'm not going to call the cops or get a lawyer. I don't want money, I just want them to do the decent thing.

Anyway...

Replies!
 

@ hushrong: Thanks on the DP! About the copycats: I'm not judging, just stating the facts. There's a copy of my work with no credit given. I'm fine with a correction, that's all. :)

 

@ Kizzdougs: Cheers!

 

@ Brother Chaplain Kage: ooooh you may have taken my comment completely wrong: I wasn't dissing on you, I was just trying to get you to finish yours  - that beefed-up Bloodthirster was looking so mighty fine and promising, it'd be a shame if it wouldn't be, wouldn't it :) Seriously, BCK, ono offence meant :tu:

 

@ DuskRaider: I don;t mind the copycatting - hell, I copied your paint scheme. But credit should be given, no? And no, I don't own copyright (although I might if push comes to shove I might actually have (But it never will, as this isn't about rights or money)) but that's not the point. The point is it is an exact copy and credit should be given where credit is due. How would you have felt had I copied your excellent paint scheme and not have mentioned your work or thread at all? That'd have been bad form. 

 

@ Eldrick Shadownbale: Well, this isn;t a case of forgetting that you've seen something before. This guy has minutely studied my pictures and copied me - all details are exactly the same. Your boss sounds like a smart dude: always give someone the benefit of the doubt. I have, which is why I sent them a polite email. :)

 

@ mechanist: I know right? Drybrushing has become a lost art (at least for me). So I'm glad I took it up again. You're absolutely right. I'm not worried that this will blow up as I am not after money or anything. It's not on the level of IP. To me, it's about decency and the effect a lack thereof could negatively affect the community.

 

@ Markus_: Thank you!

 

@ Krakendoomcool: Hahaha that's an awesome random event and story. I LOL'd! 

 

@ Dantay_VI: Dude! Would you be willing to make some artwork for me? To use for the SOUL VOW satellite event that I always organize for the Chaos ETL forum?

 

@ Sagentus: Oh please dooo ;) And thanks for the support. :)

 

@ Skeggold: Cheers! And welcome to my thread! I hope you like the rest as well. ;)

 

@ guardian31: Yeah, I saw that too - it's the light that caught it on the picture - it's almost invisible in real life. But it definitely made me go NOOOOOO

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I should have quoted the line where you said you failed me in the original contest, and I was saying that we both failed it, lol. No offense taken, man. 

[wilks_]

The demon prince is my favourite of the death guard so far! Hes really stunning... i cant wait to see what you do next dude.  

[Augustus b'Raass]

Started work on my trio of Myphitic Blight Haulers! 

 

 

Of course, their frontal canopies will be converted. I'm trying another Death Guard symbol:

 

Plus the broken-out brains idea I had before:

 

And altering the smoke stacks on his second canopy. These are made from the sprue the Hauler came on!

 

I hope you like them so far :)

 

Cheers!

Replies:

 

@BCK: Phew! Now, get to work on that Bloodthirster! Please? :D

 

@ wilks_: Cheers! How's your ETL vow going?

[Maarten]

Bit late to the party but that Prince looks even better than I expected.(and I have some high expectations of you aug)
Absolutely love that green flame effect.

Can't wait to see him in person the tabletop, when are we having that rematch?



EDIT: When I read your comment about Den of Imagination having made a first claw "inspired" by yours without crediting you my first reaction was: "You don't get to complain about someone making something that looks similar to yours while you yourself didn't come up with the characters to begin with." A long thought, I know. 

 

But then I opened the links and hoooooooooo boy, this is beyond similar. For a second I thought you'd sold off yours and they'd repainted them. So I'm with you on this, "their" version is so close that is no longer really their creation and the way they're presenting it implies that they can come up with characters like these when commissioned.

Tl;dr mentioning you would have been the right thing to do.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Maarten

[hushrong]

In the words of the Kool-Aid man: “OH YEAH!”

 

The haulers look great and I love the individidaul touches. Once again you are showing that a simple model can really be used over and over with some sweet conversion work. Any chance you will customize some of the eye lenses and jaw/ mandibles to further differentiate them?

[DuskRaider]

I understand man, it would piss me off too to have my stuff blatantly ripped off. But other than call them out what can you do?

 

It's pretty brazen to post them on the same forum the original was posted on, though... what I meant by the copyright is that you're using bits from GW to create characters from GW's IP and are originally based on fan art... other than community cred from the likes of us there isn't much you have. And in any case I was serious. You can do better now and with the advances in modelling technology from then to now you could knock it out of the park. So do it.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Or maybe do a challenge, inviting people to build their own interpretations of 1st Claw or their favorite characters from the fluff. That will give you the opportunity to do as DuskRaider suggests and make them anew, better than the first time. 

[DuskRaider]

Ooooo... hey, I like that idea!

[Verux]

Awesome work on that Prince. Very inspiring stuff for all of us sickly, infested heretics to strive for.

[SkimaskMohawk]

So I'd say that seeing as "night lords first claw" pops up your group shot before any other models, that a huge fan of the books seeing that as inspiration and sending it off to be commissioned would be the culprit. But you know the watermark is obviously there, so courtesy should have had a reference.

 

And even then, it gets muddled because Augustus is the owner of the pictures which are essentially being used to advertise for a business. Lots of dilemmas 

[DuskRaider]

The only sensible option is exterminatus.

[KrautScientist]

 

And even then, it gets muddled because Augustus is the owner of the pictures which are essentially being used to advertise for a business. Lots of dilemmas 

 

I don't think there's a single dilemma to be found here, to be honest: In this day and age, it takes about thirty seconds to research where a picture originated, so going the extra mile there is not only good practice, it's really the only practice: I've done it dozens of time for my own blog posts (as I tend to take tons of inspiration from fellow hobbyists), and I am not making a single buck off the hobby, so I think the same amount of care could be expected of someone who actually does. What's more, it actually seems like a bit of a missed opportunity to me: Saying "hey, you know awesome projects like Augustus b'Raass' First Claw? I can make you something just like that as a commission" would actually be really clever marketing, wouldn't it?

 

That being said, I had a very similar experience with a commission artist whose Daemon-Primarch version of Angron was very clearly inspired by mine (which, in turn, was heavily inspired by a much cooler model by Reg, it must be said), and while the whole thing left me more bemused than anything, I think I would have felt differently had the artist just posted his model without any kind of shout out on a forum I frequent regularly, like the B&C. So yeah, I think you did the right tjing by calling him out on it -- while you were perfectly civil, though, it kinda shows that you were also ticked off ;)

 

Anyway, on to more important matters: The Daemon Prince:

 

So glad to see the model completed at last, buddy! He's brilliant! While the green and yellow gradient on the censer is a bit too Masters of the Universe for my taste, that's strictly a matter of personal preference, and in any case, it has been well executed. The skin and armour are absolutely brilliant. If I have one complaint, it's that t maybe takes just a second too long to actually make sense of the head -- either this could be a problem of the light, or it might make sense to consider some kind of touch up to instantly draw the eye towards the head. A red symbol on the forehead, maybe? Possibly not the best option, but the first one I could come up with.

 

Again, that's merely nitpicking on an otherwise spectacular model, though, buddy: If I keep niggling away about minor stuff like that, that's actually a testament to the level of excellence you routinely achieve with your models. Brilliant stuff! :)

[Viridia]

So, a couple of things to note;

- Your Death Guard paint scheme is insanely good, and if I was anywhere near as decent I'd be copying it for my DG.

- I absolutely love the Nurgle Daemon Prince model. It's just so...out there, you know?

- Very unhappy with that dude. His apothecary (it's been a while since I read the books) is 99% identical, and the others, well the one with the long chainsword looks like he has a smaller head. That's the only difference I could readily see. Nice painting, but he should definitely have put a note that the models were inspired by your work.

[Augustus b'Raass]

Thanks, guys, for the support! I've gotten a reply on FB by one of assistants of at Den of Imagination, saying their CEOs (they apparently are so big they have not one, but multiple CEOs!) will be back next Tuesday, so I can expect a reply by then. I'm not sure if I appreciate the five day stall, but I guess I'll have to wait for the big shots. 

Anyway, on to more important things, the Myphitic Blight Hualers! I've started converting them all three, as I don't care for standard guys. I also got a package in the mail with my new GreenStuff World tentacle makers, and they're even better than the resin first generation rollers I got from GreenStuff Industries back in 2012. I went to town on the Haulers with them :)

Here's the first one, the guy with the most tentacle work:

 

And some side shots:

 

I hope you like him! I'm finishing the standard guy as we speak - he needs to dry a little more.

 

Cheers!

Replies:

 

@ Maarten:  A rematch agsinst your wierd Dark Mechanicum/Eldar hybrids? Yes please! And thanks for the vote of support for my point of view on the DOI matter.:)

 

@ hushrong: I know right - some simple conversions can make the same miniature look super diffferent. :) And yes, I am going to add a variant eye lense. :tu:

 

@ DuskRaider: Nothing. But that's exactly what I'm plannign to do. 

 

@ Brother Chaplain Kage: Eh, maybe. I still need to create Deltrion, Septimus and Octavia!

 

@  Verux: hahaha go for it!

 

@ SkimaskMohawk: Thanks, and yeah 

 

@ DuskRaider: EXTERMINATUS EXTREMIS

 

@ KrautScientist: once again you use your fabulous word skillz to make an excellent point, for which I thank you! Also, don't be dissing on the Masters of the Universe, dude! THat's exactly what I was gogin for ;)  I agree on the critique Re: the head. I made mistake scultping that tentacle from his belly into his moth - it muddies the visual cues that say 'here's where the head starts'. I might do his vision slit plate in red, like I do with the visors on the marines, though. :)

 

@ Viridia: He modelled Xarl's pauldrons too high, which makes the head look smaller. He did use the exact same pauldrons and head, though... It's pretty insane how well he's copied the bits and trophies, actually. :D

 

[Greenz]

Man, you churn out models so fast! If I miss some updates, there’s pages to go through!!!

 

First off, I love what you did with the drones, especially the one with the 3 daemon heads. Awesome!

 

Second, I’m so happy to see you finish that DP. He looks absolutely amazing, I kept scrolling back and picking out more and more details. And it’s always a relief to finally finish off a model that’s been on hold for ages

 

Third, those blight haulers are looking top notch as well. For some reason that last hauler, I’m picturing it regurgitating a trail of maggots. Must be the tentacles.

 

Your DG models are just fantastic. When the ETL is over, and I’m somewhat caught up on my loyalists, I’ll be really hard pressed deciding if I should carry on with my EC warband, or start cracking on my Nurgle dudes. Thank you for that dilemma hahaha!

[KrautScientist]

Multiple CEO's, eh?! Who knew there was such a business to be had in painting wee plastic men. You sure they weren't giving you the old Chief Wiggum routine, buddy?

 

 

@ KrautScientist: once again you use your fabulous word skillz to make an excellent point, for which I thank you! Also, don't be dissing on the Masters of the Universe, dude! THat's exactly what I was gogin for   I agree on the critique Re: the head. I made mistake scultping that tentacle from his belly into his moth - it muddies the visual cues that say 'here's where the head starts'. I might do his vision slit plate in red, like I do with the visors on the marines, though.

 

Oh, I used to love Masters of the Universe and, in my heart of hearts, still do -- it's just not what I'd want for my Nurglite Daemon Prince. But that's quite okay, it takes all sorts to make a world! As for the head, I actually rather like the tentacle/cable running into the mouth, and I'd say it's rather a combination of the way the head is facing and the fact that the helmet lacks a lot of what immediately tells you "FACE!". That being said, I do think some red markings or a stripe running down the centre of the forehead, or a tiny fly icon in red should do the trick.

 

Great work on the Blighthaulers so far!

Edited May 18, 2018 by KrautScientist