[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[Slips]

True, what with their Special Rule. Still, it helps in that it bypasses saves and while its a 3+ Re-roll Successes, its definitely better than a flat 5+ or worse.

[SkimaskMohawk]

If course, since the artillery pieces have 2 wounds, it won't actually remove any of them, and you would have to kill all of the crew to silence the unit. That's hard to do with a single 5" template. Phosphex discharger can help, but it needs 6s to wound.

 

Graviton collapse doesn't actually change how wounds are allocated, just how the wounding process works. So if you catch an artillery piece and its two dudes in the large blast, they'd have 2 tests and one auto fail, if they ended up with 3 fails then there would be 3 wounds allocated to the closest model.

[pompeyladbfp]

As above.. 5" template means against 3 batteries, good chance of covering 3-4 infantry and 2 pieces... So 2-6 wounds, and even on averages a good 4-5 wounds. Nasty

 

Must.. Buy.. Two ☺

[Terminus]

I had to try real hard to get two batteries and 3 dudes under one template by smoothing them together. Seems more likely you'll erase a gun and crew and maybe another guy. That's just the bombard, though, there is still the volkite and phosphex and meltagun to shoot.

[Gyem]

So it seems we can't throw more than one grenade per unit per phase (shooting but also assault). Someone linked a FAQ on /tg/ and I checked the 40k rulebook. Are assault marinea even :cusstier now? Outriders ? Anvillus melta vets? Recons...

Any input on this?

[Slips]

We cant throw meltabombs so make of that what you will and the fact that this rule specifically calls out to throwing a grenade in the assault phase.

[Charlo]

Really nothing has changed yet. The FAQs are drafts being fed back upon. One thing of which is the MB ruling being questioned and pointed out as ridiculous.

 

GW will cave and go back to normal.

[Nusquam]

The Fractal Harrow Blades rule works even if you attack with a different weapon. Not a big surprise there.

[GreyCrow]

Hey guys, a couple of questions here !

 

How did you feel MSU for non Troops affected the tabletop performance ? I found that it is much much easier to hide 5 men squads out of line of sight compared to 10, especially when we're talking about long range weapon teams like Heavy Support squads. Since the Raven Guard gets no bonuses being shot at, I was thinking that using small long range firesupport squads to hide them from their main threats would be interesting in games of 2.5 to 3k, but I'm curious about your own experience.

 

Secondly, how do you like to run the Heavy Support Squads ? I really love the concept of infiltrated heavy weapons guys waiting in ambush for the enemy army and BOOM! (or CHOOM!) :D Typically, I was looking into Plasma Cannon, Lascannon and Volkite Teams, but I wanted to have your opinion on that. As well as Autocannons, I'm not typically a fan of budget options and for the dakka the Volkite is more appealing to me (after witnessing the damage of Eldar Jetbikes, I can definitely appreciate the damage from spamming S6) but I keep an open mind.

 

Thirdly, how do Legion Landspeeders compare to Javelins ? Javelins do seem to work like a better version of the 40k speeder, but I'm curious about the basic Landspeeder squadron which seems interesting as well for a glass cannon unit with high dakka. With Volkite and Plasma Cannon, they're an expensive unit for sure, but that's some damn strong firepower coming from Deep Strike or regular reserves.

[pompeyladbfp]

scout ruling in the faq is a nice little bonus

[Slips]

For HSS Squads, if you have all 3 HS Slots open, they might be able to do something for you however, they need to make the best use out of their Infiltrate from LA:RG or else some of the other Options (Leviathans, Las Vindicators, etc) will probably do the job better. If running Decap with its 1HS Slot, you have better options.

 

I've only really ran them as a 10 Man Culverin Squad with my IF because they have Tank Hunters meaning that with 40 Shots, even Snap Firing, I could still reliably take down Av12 or Weaker.

 

The Basic Landspeeder is only good vs the Javelin in that it can take a Graviton Gun for Haywire. Otherwise, the Javelins slight increase in points is definitely worth the "Doesn't Die To Bolters" of Av11 and the potential of 5 S8 Shots on Arrival per Javelin.

[GreyCrow]

Thanks !

 

The idea was to have 2 squads of Lascannons and 1 squad of Volkites, either min or max, as being the only thing that deploy on the table if going first. Paired with a full squadron of 5 Plasma/Volkite Landspeeders and probably a Siege Breaker/MOS (or both) somewhere in the HSS. The idea is to Infiltrate to find opportunistic insertion zones where the enemy will have trouble bringing the firepower and clearing this area. Landspeeders held in reserves unless the opponent has a bad AT. I know they'll Jink and they'll get destroyed, but I want to force shots on them to relieve the HSS and to detract from the AM.

 

With Troops, even though they are less competitive, I was thinking of going with Deep Striking Assault Squads supported by Dark Furies (if going first, if going second going for regular deployment if I can deploy in cover) in preparation for the Raven Lord addition himself. Just holding them back until the herd has been thinned and it's time to jump in !

[Nusquam]

As for MSU, the most I go that route in regular games is two 10 man tac squads. With the pricing method in 30k it's hard to do MSU other than Mor Deythan. ZM however I load up on MSU of MD.

 

I've tried various sized HSS squads with LCs infiltrated with a siege breaker that had camo. They work quite well with decap strike and maun to go first. Plus you can take phosphex shell rapiers as well now. Open up the cans and spray the insides with phosphex.

 

A while back in this thread we talked about Javs and speeders because I asked almost the same question. Slips just about summed it up too.

[Nusquam]

On another note: Sub Orbital Strike wings are much better with attack patterns. Might make them actually worth the VP per plane.

[GreyCrow]

To be fair, I'm not sure MSU is that bad. Comparing the base cost of a full tactical squad compared to 2x10, you pay a premium of 2.5 points per model (average cost of 12.5 for 1 full squad vs 15 for 2) to split it up in two units. Obviously, there are still the extra upgrades. Haven't specifically done the math on all other units maybe MSU are indeed interesting in some options.

 

Speaking of MSU, what gear would you recommend for a Dreadclaw mounted Cataphractii squad ? I know they don't technically fit the RG's Legion bonuses (except for Furious Charge), but I was thinking of the following loadouts :

1) Single Lightning Claw upgraded to Raven's Talons

2) Power Fist/Chainfist

3) Power Axe (S6 AP2 is yummy)

[Nusquam]

S6 axes are never bad but A bunch of Tartaros with Talons sounds wicked.

[GreyCrow]

True, true... The sweeping advance is indeed just too good. Plus, with a transport, we kind of need less of the 4++ of the Cataphractii. It seems that Cataphractii are better when they deep strike with combis or walk up the board, while Tartaros benefits a lot from a transport to outweight the crappy 5++.

[Nusquam]

Talon Tartaros would be aces for mauling tac squads, backfield scoring, fire support, and anything of the kind. Lots of master crafted S5 AP3 rending will chew through a lot of things. Not sure if I would do talons on the sarge or stick with a fist. Can't rely on rending to get through 2+ against normal sarges.

 

Kitted with a Darkwwing will put them over 500 points. It's no deathstar but could scour a fair amount of the field.

 

Also with the new flyer rules you can't get cover from zooming unless it's another flyer in the way or you jink. That's rough. Though the FAQ got me to relook at the dread rules. It looks like they lost the shooting pivot move they could do and do really only fire in a 45 degree arc. Very narrow and good for avoiding interceptor.

 

I wonder if FW will port over flyer wings in slots, taking any flyer as a 1-X choice, or just add Pursuit and Agility values. I could do without the dog fight phase but I'm a sucker for anything with wings from all those years playing Ace Combat.

[GreyCrow]

Indeed ! I was thinking more with a Dreadclaw for early presure along a line of Infiltrated Tacticals. Popped on the flanks.

 

Regarding the Fists, I'm really concerned about them hitting at I1 with a 5++. On Cataphractiis I would have no beef though :p

[Nusquam]

I always forget about the dread claw for normal infantry. That does save a chunk of change.

[GreyCrow]

I always forget about the dread claw for normal infantry. That does save a chunk of change.

 

Indeed ! Plus, we've all dreamed about podded Terminators didn't we ?

 

I've given a bit more thought about the Cataphractii in pods and thought about the following loadout : 5 combi-plasmas/5 chainfists. It comes at 360 points with the Dreadclaw and I think will be quite a good distraction unit/fire magnet, with different deployment options (alpha strike with the combis, bullet magnet when kept in the Dreadclaw, etc). Furious Charge is a bit wasted because it's better on infantry, but that means any Superheavy/Contemptor they come in contact with will be slag.

 

EDIT : Are HSS with Missile Launchers worth it when paired with a Siege Breaker with Camo line and Infavisor ? I'd much prefer Lascannons but the pricepoint between ML and LC makes me think twice :p

Edited May 9, 2016 by GreyCrow

[defl0]

I wrote a blog post the other day about Raven Guard flier armies. 

 

http://www.petehappens.com/2016/05/raven-guard-30k-murder-of-ravens-air.html

 

And today, I got around to reading Death from the skies codex. Apparently, the death from the skies codex overwrites the flier rules in the main rule book, thus its the rule set we should be using for 30K, right?

[Nusquam]

Yes. We'll have to put some band aids over a few things, like giving flyers roles and Pursuit/Agility stats. But that shouldn't be too hard.

[defl0]

I bet its something like: 

 

Pursuit 2 and Agility 1 - Anvilus

Pursuit 3 Agility 2 - for Fire Raptor (attack fighter), storm Eagle (attack fighter), cestus (attack fighter), bother thunder hawks (attack fighter)

Pursuit 3 Agility 3 - for the Xiphon (fighter), Dark Wing (attack fighter) and Lightning (attack fighter?)

 

More importantly, I love the idea of air superiority and getting reserve manipulation. 

[Charlo]

I'd wager we'll get the official word on flyers soon enough from FW. For now the Heresy can stay as I'd for planes.