Nusquam Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Wow Moritats got nerf'd again?Also he has chainfire just like the Moritats, and therefore the cap. He doesn't have a version spelled out in his rules. Even if he did you know that would get changed on the next pass. Well Nex is a lot worse now generally speaking. I mean that game I rolled 70+ hits in one round was bonkers, but still. Though my group ran chainfire as 2d6 hits and no super over heat before this book, so I suppose we can just cap at 12 now and ignore the overheat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4445799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 If a unit don't have Infiltrate they cannont join an infiltrating character so no, a infiltrating Techmarine can't take them with him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4445875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 This is not a matter of ICs joining units and confering infiltrate though, but of a techmarine with accompanying servitors all forming a unit. Since infiltrate says it works as long as at least one model has the rule, then yes, they definitely can use the techmarine's rule. shandwen 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4446094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Also, do you think Apotehecaries can join Rapier platform squads?Nope. Only infantry The crew are infantry, which is why they can infiltrate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4446379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Maybe they shouldn't be able to infiltrate then... HMMMMM Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4446413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Why not? As long as any member of a unit has the Infiltrate rule, they can infiltrate. So since the infantry members of an artillery unit have Infiltrate, you are good to go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4446482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Its the same deal as a Shattered Legions RG or AL Apothecary giving a Non-AL or RG squad Infiltrate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4446484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Ok these are my thoughts on the new codex. Let me know if got anything wrong or if I missed anything big. I'm also interested if you have any strong opinions on my analysis. I'm just get models on the table this weekend with the new rules. http://www.petehappens.com/2016/07/horus-heresy-30k-legion-astartes-codex.html Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4447258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) So with vets getting access to combi-weapons they can become Mor Deythan-lite if you choose the Marksmen tactic. Plus in a Decap ROW they can take drop pods. 10 Vets, 10 combi-flamers, Drop pod, Marksmen 295vs 10 Mor Deythan, 10 combi-flamers, rhino 340 You save 45 points by losing BS5, Stealth, and trading Fatal Strike for Sniper. Then you get access to a pod in Decap as well as access to power weapons for the whole squad instead of a sword on the Shade. With those 45 saved points you can get some power axes, maybe artificer armor, melta bomb... Or just keep the savings. The only advantage MD have over Vets is in void missions where they improve rending by 1 using Fatal. Even the rending combi-plasmas are outclassed because the new AT tactic just adds 1 to pen rolls effectively making them S8 and thus doing 6.67HPs to AV14 the turn they come down. Goodbye spartans (and typhons) turn 1, then you have a second squad with flamers drop next to them and unleash sniper flamers. Whoops messed up the dice tool Mor Deythan just got outclassed. Veterans are probably one of, if no the, best unit not only for RG but in the game. Oh also infiltrating a giant unit of techmarines with rad missile launcher servitors sounds nasty too. Edited July 21, 2016 by Nusquam Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4447770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 If by giant unit you mean, 1 Techy and 4 Servitors then yes it does! But they have a range of 48" and aren't the most survivable, so best to use that I think. I agree on Mor'Deythan. With Vets getting combis a lot of legion specifics are now outclassed... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4447773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Any techmarine can take up to 4 servitors, and you can take up to three techs. It'll get expensive fast, but they can lay on the pain. 559 for 3 TMs, one with rad grenades, and 12 servitors with rad missiles-and I just remembered that phosphex rapiers are a thing and are better and cheaper. I suppose a small unit might not be bad in ZM defense, or hanging back so the tech can repair a fellblade or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4447781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) Why are people so hot for rad missiles, they are pretty pants when you give up other rocket types to get them. Super niche. As for Mor Deythan, It's not that bad. Against infantry targets Mor Deythan wound 75% of the time rather than 50%. That reroll gets you more rends too, and you have precision shots. If people come around my way of thinking about their specials, they are also a more competent shooting unit afterwards, while Vets are probably better off in melee with power swords. think it's a fair dinstinction between the two units. Yes, it's a shame most Legion uniques in power armour are just cosmetic conversion bits at this point. Edited July 21, 2016 by Terminus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4447783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) Sniper grants precision shots too. I would compare one-time twinlinked(psuedoshred for flamers) and rending equal(or maybe even generally worse) to having Sniper(psuedorend on 6s, always wounding on a 4+ or better, and keeping precision shots) the whole game. This means the vets can also reliably take on bikers, automata, and the like with their bolters as well. Plus access to a drop pod in Decap is huge by itself. Much more reliable than MD in a rhino that can get seized on or may fail against a castled enemy. Fishing for rends again stone gauntlet breachers may do better than sniper but thats another niche application like void warfare. Edited July 21, 2016 by Nusquam Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4447796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Why are people so hot for rad missiles, they are pretty pants when you give up other rocket types to get them. Super niche. They're a cool part of the 30k game only really avaiable to a few things in small number. Techmarines open them up to be 4 in a unit. AP3, Fleshbane small blasts that have lasting effects against multi-wound models are pretty cool IMO! Nova_chron 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4447799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Veteran Tacs special rule; My thinking is that since the Vets themselves have that special rule only they get things like Sniper. But the Vet tactics rule says the unit/for the squad, and not 'models with this special rule'. Now ICs can't benefit from special rules anymore, but what about the awkward plug and play apothecaries? My initial thought is the Apoth won't get sniper but then infiltrating RG Apothecaries came to mind and now I'm unsure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4447819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Same as any other special rule For scout and that if one model has it they all do including attached. But all of the others are non-transferrable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4447823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyem Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) The only advantage MD have over Vets is in void missions where they improve rending by 1 using Fatal. Even the rending combi-plasmas are outclassed because the new AT tactic just adds 1 to pen rolls effectively making them S8 and thus doing 6.67HPs to AV14 the turn they come down. Goodbye spartans (and typhons) turn 1 How? 10 combi vets, 20 S8 plasma shoots, 13.3 hits, 2.2 glances. Am I missing something? Did combiplas gained lance (would explain the 6.67hp)? Edited July 21, 2016 by Gyem Terminus 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4447983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Ah you're right. I input it incorrectly in battlescribes fancy dice tool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4448164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 So now we have combat roles for all the fliers (no the dark wing). You guys going to start using the wanky fier rules? https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Death-from-the-Skies.pdf?utm_source=forgeworld.co.uk&utm_campaign=45160bd780-FW_2016_07_22_Barracuda&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a6ef0a01da-45160bd780-118596097 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4448722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 So with vets getting access to combi-weapons they can become Mor Deythan-lite if you choose the Marksmen tactic. Plus in a Decap ROW they can take drop pods. I actually think these guys make the delgatus and the pride of legion ROW VERY viable now. Having these guys as core troops is a strong option over something like a tac squad. It's also worth noting that they can do this when they get charged (unike fatal strike), so they are especially good on objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4448750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 The VP hit for Pride is too harsh for me. Delegatus is the way! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4448801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyem Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) I actually think these guys make the delgatus and the pride of legion ROW VERY viable now. Having these guys as core troops is a strong option over something like a tac squad. It's also worth noting that they can do this when they get charged (unike fatal strike), so they are especially good on objectives. Could be fun, average 20 OW flamer hits, 3.3 rending wounds, 6.6 non rending. 2A base + 1A CCW + 1A for counter-attack for 4A each if you use Alvarex Maun. Edit : Just realized I can't have both PotL and Drop Pod vets. Edited July 22, 2016 by Gyem Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4448810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Lol. I made the same mistake at first too... stupid game balance :P That said, it's a reasonable dilemma. Both drop vets and core troop vets are very good options. When you really break it down, Vets are only 3 point more than tacs with extra CCWS (assuming FOTL = Vet rules). And for that 3 pts you get an extra attack and tons of shooting and hth options as well as a melta bomb option. It's hard not to see the value. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4448930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) SO FW did go their own way and created additional roles for flyers. Makes sense. THough that update is for imperial armour.Also the lightning lost Kraken missiles but I totally called that it's role would change based on loadout at least. Edited July 22, 2016 by Nusquam Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4449030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 SO FW did go their own way and created additional roles for flyers. Makes sense. THough that update is for imperial armour. Also the lightning lost Kraken missiles but I totally called that it's role would change based on loadout at least. The imperial navy lightning never had kraken: only the legion astartes "primaries" lightning had them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290168-hh10-raven-guard-tactics/page/48/#findComment-4449041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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