[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[defl0]

Coming back to the topic though.

 

From a rending flamer alpha strike perspective: 

 

Drop pods were largely dead to me. I found, I could do a lot more with flamer Mor Deythan in Rhinos, plus it was hard to get them in Pods, and with a flamers range you are depending on pulling off a no scatter drop. 

 

I've found  my opponents couldn't stop my mor deythan to getting to their target.

 

- They get to deploy last. Move 12" Move 6" Deploy 6" and flame 7" 

- Worst case scenario, I punch a whole in your bubble wrap with a tac squad in a rhino...

 

Unless you are running militia it's pretty hard to stop this unit. 

 

That said, for Vets, without the scout, you either need to pay for the squad to be more tactical or go with drop pods. 

 

Rhino flamer assault without scout can be tough to pull off against a good opponent with bubble wrapping and the like. 

 

 

To Terminus's point though, Now we basically have vets as mor deythan light unit and I agree with him that a tactical payload is probably better with Vets. I also don't they are a go to alpha strike unit unless they have pods. 

 

 

IMO - Sniper Vets are better with 2 missile launchers in cover or in a rhino with 2 MLs, combi flamers and maybe some hth weapons. They are better not used as alpha strike units but as mid field coutner strikers. They can deploy on objectives. Chip away at you from afar and are a nightmare to push off an objective. 

 

The rending flamers alone make them a hell of a deterrent to even approach. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'd give the vets plasma always instead of missiles. Unless you get a whole bunch or some really good buffs, missiles are pretty terrible since you need 3 to even kill a vehicle in one volley; plasmas ap 2 threatens an explode on medium vehicles and deters terminators, command squads and any other 2+ save.

[Lord Asvaldir]

 

IMO - Sniper Vets are better with 2 missile launchers in cover or in a rhino with 2 MLs, combi flamers and maybe some hth weapons. They are better not used as alpha strike units but as mid field coutner strikers. They can deploy on objectives. Chip away at you from afar and are a nightmare to push off an objective. 

 

The rending flamers alone make them a hell of a deterrent to even approach. 

 

I don't see why sniper vets are not a good alpha strike unit. A squad coming out of a pod with 2 heavy flamers and a few combi flamers packs one hell of a punch. Sure, the pod could scatter off target, but I'll take my chances with that. Smart pod deployment can mitigate that issue. Plus once the combis are used up, if you throw in a couple power weapons you have a fairly solid assault squad. 

 

Also second Skimask on the plasma guns, nine out of ten times I'd rather take the extra shot and ap over the higher strength of the missile launcher. Plus with rending, plasma guns have a shot at penning higher AV targets if needed. 

[defl0]

 

 

IMO - Sniper Vets are better with 2 missile launchers in cover or in a rhino with 2 MLs, combi flamers and maybe some hth weapons. They are better not used as alpha strike units but as mid field coutner strikers. They can deploy on objectives. Chip away at you from afar and are a nightmare to push off an objective. 

 

The rending flamers alone make them a hell of a deterrent to even approach. 

 

I don't see why sniper vets are not a good alpha strike unit. A squad coming out of a pod with 2 heavy flamers and a few combi flamers packs one hell of a punch. Sure, the pod could scatter off target, but I'll take my chances with that. Smart pod deployment can mitigate that issue. Plus once the combis are used up, if you throw in a couple power weapons you have a fairly solid assault squad. 

 

Also second Skimask on the plasma guns, nine out of ten times I'd rather take the extra shot and ap over the higher strength of the missile launcher. Plus with rending, plasma guns have a shot at penning higher AV targets if needed. 

 

 

 

I'm in total agreement with you: 

 

 

"That said, for Vets, without the scout, you either need to pay for the squad to be more tactical or go with drop pods. 

 

Rhino flamer assault without scout can be tough to pull off against a good opponent with bubble wrapping and the like." 

 

 

If you want to go vets in an alpha strike list, You go with vets in a pod. 

 

 

That said, for Vets, without the scout, you either need to pay for the squad to be more tactical or go with drop pods. 

 

Rhino flamer assault without scout can be tough to pull off against a good opponent with bubble wrapping and the like. 

[Lord Asvaldir]

Aa I see what you mean, yeah vets in a rhino without scout makes using their flamers a bit tougher to pull off. You could however outflank the the vets in a rhino. 6" move onto the board, then 6" disembark should put you in range of something, especially if you're running Corax in your list to give the outflankers acute senses so they have a better shot at coming in on the board edge you want them on. 

[defl0]

I'd give the vets plasma always instead of missiles. Unless you get a whole bunch or some really good buffs, missiles are pretty terrible since you need 3 to even kill a vehicle in one volley; plasmas ap 2 threatens an explode on medium vehicles and deters terminators, command squads and any other 2+ save.

 

I think either plasma or missile launcher is fine.

 

- At range against infantry the output of a rending plasma gun vs a rending frag is pretty identical

- Within 12" the plasma is better

- Against a vehicle you are comparing S8 AP3 rending vs S7 Ap2 rending...  Again, it's pretty similar unless you are in 12"

- Out side 24" the missile launcher is better. 

 

I prefer the Missile launcher.

 

You can still fire at 48". So if gives you the option of deploying far away on an objective and still being useful. The plasma guns means you need to be mid field. 

 

To each their own. Both are solid options. 

[defl0]

Lol. I just got PM'd like 6 times!

 

Yes. You can still choose to shoot with a Missile laucher at full range as a heavy even if you have a suspensor web! 

 

"if you wish" 

[SkimaskMohawk]

The range is fairly irrelevant imo as 90% of the time you're going to be in the midfield thanks to infiltrate or drop pods. I'd strongly prefer the plasma since it gives consistent ap 2 to both vets and MD, simultaneously with rending you can pen every AoD vehicle and with ap 2 you can 1 shot them, something missiles can't do.

[Slips]

I dunno.

 

 Sniper doesn't give you a D3 to armourpen like rending anymore (7th ed BRB p. 171) so they still can't hurt Av14. So its decidedly less useful on Plasma Vets.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Terminus]

I think people overlook how many hits (read: attempts to rend) you can get with a pair of templates. As long as you have an additional reason to carry a missile launcher on your veterans (Alpha Legion or Dark Angels for example), it's a pretty good all-around weapon.  It's pretty expensive though, so unless you're getting extra mileage out of it, I don't think it's very cost effective for most Legions. I think the heavy bolter should be 10 and the missile launcher 15 like the plasma gun, but c'est la vie.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea I sure do forget that often enough slips; I think I'll try some sniper launchers in my list tomorrow, see how it goes

[Nova_chron]

So what are people's thoughts on tactical support squads in a decapitation strike list I always feel like I'm lacking in anti tank when I make my lists. Considering 2 units with melta to bring my total pods up to 5 with 3 tactical squads. I don't have a leviathan dread yet so my options are fairly limited to infantry and a contemptor dread from BaC.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I have two units of plasma in mine, was considering going melta, but plasma should cut it most of the time

[Nova_chron]

Aside from the spartan bus and land Raider wave of Guiltyspark's world eaters I think plasma can handle most vehicles I'm likely to face that's an interesting idea do you run 5 guys and that's it or bulk the unit out?

[Nusquam]

So what are people's thoughts on tactical support squads in a decapitation strike list I always feel like I'm lacking in anti tank when I make my lists. Considering 2 units with melta to bring my total pods up to 5 with 3 tactical squads. I don't have a leviathan dread yet so my options are fairly limited to infantry and a contemptor dread from BaC.

 

I like them, I always feel like I'm low on scoring though. I have a 5man plasma and a 10man caliver. For you though plasma in pods for popping rear/side AV would be good. Plasma is a good all-rounder, especially in pods. So it's not like they won't have something to shoot unless you're facing only AV14.

[Nova_chron]

Yeah AV 14 is a tough nut to crack for me at the moment but luckily for me only guilty runs a spartan often from the group of guys I play often

[Sircyn]

In 3k Decapitation strike I'll run two plasma and two melta squads in pods. The rite and Alvarex Maun mean that it would be criminal not to leverage these units.

 

I usually take 6-8 man squads depending on game size. I usually take the free combi weapon and buy artificer armour for the sergeant so save points and get my bullet shield for the squad.

 

I highly recommend them. There is a bunch of stuff that has ceramite armour on, but grav speeders, gravfist Contemptors and Leviathans can deal with them. Sicarians, Artillery, 90% of the time predators and importantly knights don't have it, which gives plenty of scope for melta drops.

 

With a lack of decent vehicle targets they're good for nuking two wound terminators or putting the final nail into a primarch.

 

Tactical squads in pods are only useful for objective camping so I try to keep them to a minimum. I'd rather take a tactical support squad, even a 6 man flamer squad beats a naked tactical squad imo.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Sircyn

[Nova_chron]

So I'd be better of shuffling points to go down to two tactics squads and pick up another support squad seems to be the consensus I agree the tacs just camp on a point to hold it and be a nuisance

[Nusquam]

I use tacs for scoring fodder and putting a vox somewhere via infiltrate. I was taking two, but now that AMs are better I'm trying a squad of those next game.

[Nova_chron]

So I have made myself a five man plasma support squad I can find the bits to make a full ten guys should I go with two smaller squads to avoid the possible overkill from ten plasma guns into a single target or is the guaranteed kill worth it? Also I'm looking for some I privation on building a Maun mini to use in my games because he is just to useful to pass up on even if he has to be babysat but a protective unit.

 

I have also been contemplating dropping stock tactical squads entirely for assault squads and then bringing more support squads to the table instead cause I feel like I get more mileage from the assault marines' speed and mobility than the tacticals just sitting on the spot they get out of the drop pods in.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Nova_chron

[Nusquam]

Tacs(FotL) and Caliver(S6* 30" deflag) squads are good for holding objectives on your side, AMs and things in pods are good for midfield and objectives on your opponents side.

 

The almost guaranteed kill is great for first blood if they're in a pod.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Nusquam

[SkimaskMohawk]

calivers are str 6, they're excellent

[Nova_chron]

If I have a caliver squad those are heavies correct? So I should try to infiltrate with good fields of fire and unload on some poor souls turn one?

[Nusquam]

Calivers and Chargers are support, Culverins are heavy

 

Also next ZM game I'm trying Furies with a Jump Vigilator and recon armor. Being able to ignore ZMs dangerous terrain is going to be murderous.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Nusquam

[Nova_chron]

Caliver profile is a heavy weapon isn't it sorry I was half asleep when I posted that last one so I may have been unclear.