[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[Withershadow]

Really? I think the Javelin looks awesome, and it fits in well with this retro penis-based aesthetic FW has adopted for all Imperial Grav technology (see jetbikes, javelin, Custodes skimmers). To each his own. :P

 

I've hated the shoe speeders ever since they discontinued the old 2nd edition metals. I'll only ever use jetbikes if I can get my hands on some of those, but they sell for like $100 a pop when they show up on eBay.

[Biscuittzz]

Yep, I've already said above I don't like the look of the typhon. I seem to dislike the models everyone loves. 

[defl0]

The humble land speeder

 

The biker/speeder list above pushed me to reread the 'normal' 30k landspeeder rules (graviton gun? really?) and they look amazing (plasma cannon AND culverin options... how did I miss it)

 

Nevertheless, perfect as they look to me, I can't see them used much - so wondered what XIX legion players made of them (on paper they -look- like a strong anti tank option, made in heaven for Decapitation Strike).

 

Is their rarity more a result of the javelin being better value in the slot - (added krak, no AV10 vulnerability to FoTL) albeit being more expensive?

Or am I missing something?

 

If you use them - are they good, how many is too many.

If you don't - is there a specific reason why?

They are spectacular since the new codex. 1 Multi Melta + 1 grav is great for alpha strike lists.

 

Deployed centrally they hit anything turn one.

 

Getting seized on hurts, but it's all about threat overload.

 

Consider recons, grav rapiers, grav speeders, mor deythan in recon list with a typhon.

 

What do you shoot?

[Sulemain]

OH :cuss WRONG PLACE!

 

I mean, go Raven Guard! Woo, yeah!

Edited January 2, 2017 by Sulemain

[Shrieker]

Was just gonna convert copilot to hold a graviton gun and use the underslung housing for the multimelta. Aesthetics aside the lanspeeder kit is one of the simplest to magnetise. And it can be 30k -ified easily by shaving off the front eagle and masking with one of the brass etching RG plaques. Edited January 2, 2017 by Shrieker

[defl0]

Totally. Magnets are super easy. Did them for the top and bottom guns and they are super easy to swap Edited January 2, 2017 by defl0

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I'll be putting together a force of Raven Guard, and it's rather modest. I have no transports, since regular infantry can infiltrate, and jump infantry is fast. I'll have two contemptor dreads with assault cannons for support, and I can field a Librarian on a bike, with a 5 man squad of outriders. I can also get a squad of dark furies in the mix as well. I have 30 power armor guys that can make either 3 veteran tac squads (w/ 2 special weapons each), 2 Min tac squads, or 1 maxed out tac squad. I don't really know what to do with the remining 10 guys though (3 PG dudes, 3 HB dudes, and 4 PA guys).

 

Dreads are my only vehicle support, and that's fine since I was mostly planning on running this as an ally pool for my Solar Auxilia. Or I can go vice versa and run my SA as support for the RG (I'd rather go SA w/RG, because then I can infiltrate more of my army, which makes up for my lack of DT's). 

 

Any suggestions? Adding things isn't really an option at the moment.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Do you have any other HQ? Librarians are support so they can't fill the compulsory slot.

 

Not sure what you're trying to achieve tbh. Raven Guard work really well because of their ability to counter deploy and pick firing lines and alpha/beta strike. Your list doesn't necessarily look like raven guard benefits it in any way

[Nusquam]

Consider converting one of the PA guys into a Deleagtus or Strike Captain Maun to unlock Rites of War and go for either Chosen Duty(Vets as troops if you make a Delegatus) or Decapitation Strike(To make the most out of infiltrated units without transports).

 

Chosen Duty is to get you baseline power up with the models you have in smaller games. Plus in an allied having infiltrated vets supporting SA is pretty good.

 

Decapitation Strike, alongside Maun, esure you go first most of the time. You can infiltrate the Tacs on home objectives and infiltrate the Vets/Jump units and scout the outriders aggressively. For a one-two punch.

[Withershadow]

Are Assault Marines not Infantry also, or do they just follow their rules for game purposes?

[SkimaskMohawk]

They are infantry, if the question is about the raven guard trait; RAW they get both, RAI probably wasn't the design choice

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Do you have any other HQ? Librarians are support so they can't fill the compulsory slot.

I have a Model that can work as a Delegatus (or even a praetor), and it has a Jump pack. I also have the Chaplain guy from B@C. Additionally, I could also add in the Terminator Centurion from B@C, as well. Not sure how useful terminators would be to RG though.

 

I've got a squad of assault marines and a squad of lightning claw jump pack guys. I have enough jump pack marines to have a Centurion with Jump pack, plus a 3 man body guard with jump packs, a squad of dark furies, and a 10 man squad.

 

 

Not sure what you're trying to achieve tbh. Raven Guard work really well because of their ability to counter deploy and pick firing lines and alpha/beta strike. Your list doesn't necessarily look like raven guard benefits it in any way

I was intending to use the ability to infiltrate. I was intending to use my power armor troops to counter deploy against my opponent and rain bolter fire on them. My dreads would advance from the rear and provide supporting fire. 

 

Is there something else I should be considering? How am I "doing it wrong"? I thought it would actually synergize fairly well with my Solar Auxilia, since they will also be infiltrating a large portion of infantry as a counter deployment. With Armor advancing from the rear, and Thunderbolt fighters to provide air support.

 

Consider converting one of the PA guys into a Deleagtus or Strike Captain Maun to unlock Rites of War and go for either Chosen Duty(Vets as troops if you make a Delegatus) or Decapitation Strike(To make the most out of infiltrated units without transports).

Yeah, I forgot to mention I have a character that will be my delegatus. Chosen duty also seemed to be a good strategy, though I'll need to take another look at the decapitation strike.

 

 

Chosen Duty is to get you baseline power up with the models you have in smaller games. Plus in an allied having infiltrated vets supporting SA is pretty good.

Good to know.

 

 

Decapitation Strike, alongside Maun, esure you go first most of the time. You can infiltrate the Tacs on home objectives and infiltrate the Vets/Jump units and scout the outriders aggressively. For a one-two punch.

I was under the impression that assault marines could not infiltrate, because it specifies Jump infantry gain furious assault (furious charge?). This is from page 114 of the Age of Darkness Legions book. 

[Withershadow]

Jump Infantry are also Infantry, although I've had the argument thrown at me that the BRB merely states "they follow the rules for Infantry", which doesn't mean they are Infantry. Mad pedantry or genius? No idea... Edited January 23, 2017 by Withershadow

[SkimaskMohawk]

Not sure what you're trying to achieve tbh. Raven Guard work really well because of their ability to counter deploy and pick firing lines and alpha/beta strike. Your list doesn't necessarily look like raven guard benefits it in any way

I was intending to use the ability to infiltrate. I was intending to use my power armor troops to counter deploy against my opponent and rain bolter fire on them. My dreads would advance from the rear and provide supporting fire. 

 

Is there something else I should be considering? How am I "doing it wrong"? I thought it would actually synergize fairly well with my Solar Auxilia, since they will also be infiltrating a large portion of infantry as a counter deployment. With Armor advancing from the rear, and Thunderbolt fighters to provide air support.

 

 

 

Decapitation Strike, alongside Maun, esure you go first most of the time. You can infiltrate the Tacs on home objectives and infiltrate the Vets/Jump units and scout the outriders aggressively. For a one-two punch.

I was under the impression that assault marines could not infiltrate, because it specifies Jump infantry gain furious assault (furious charge?). This is from page 114 of the Age of Darkness Legions book. 

 

 

Not that you're doing it wrong...just that bolters kind of suck in the grand scheme of things. Generally rapiers are one of the best units to counter deploy with.

 

As for the assault marine thing, its because they don't exclude them like terminators that they would qualify for infiltrate (and furious charge), RAW anyways. 

 

Jump Infantry are also Infantry, although I've had the argument thrown at me that the BRB merely states "they follow the rules for Infantry", which doesn't mean they are Infantry. Mad pedantry or genius? No idea...

 

Its a fairly poor argument that leaves out some key sentences like " ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself" and "Jump units therefore share two

sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type".

 

 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Not that you're doing it wrong...just that bolters kind of suck in the grand scheme of things. Generally rapiers are one of the best units to counter deploy with.

Ok, I can definitely see that. Get some high output firepower out front to wreck the opponent's lines. Makes good tactical sense. I just don't have any of those, since my collection is somewhat limited to what has been produced in plastic, and whatever else I've been able to get my grubby booger-hooks on. 

 

I most definitely want rapiers, the quad mortar thingy ones for my solar auxilia, and some direct fire ones for raven guard would be amazing as well.

 

Also, was there a ruling against the sub-orbital strike wing that disallowed the use of Thunderbolts, or is that just battlescribe being incomplete?

 

I'd consider using my SA as Allies to my Raven Guard if there were a good way to get both of my Thunderbolts into the list (Unless my opponent is cool with them proxied as Lightnings with double TLAC and TLML...).

[Nusquam]

If you have a lot of bolter marines already modeled, than using veteran tacs with sniper is the most efficient route to getting the most out of them. You can infiltrate or outflank them, snipe out specials and characters with sniper(bonus chance for AP2), and always wound on at least a 4+ when shooting high toughness things like automata(note: it is not poison anymore) or T5 IFs/IH/Chymerie.

 

As for the Thunderbolt it looks like its jsut battlescribe being incomplete. I forgot how awesome they are. Beefy and cool looking.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

If you have a lot of bolter marines already modeled, than using veteran tacs with sniper is the most efficient route to getting the most out of them. You can infiltrate or outflank them, snipe out specials and characters with sniper(bonus chance for AP2), and always wound on at least a 4+ when shooting high toughness things like automata(note: it is not poison anymore) or T5 IFs/IH/Chymerie.

 

As for the Thunderbolt it looks like its jsut battlescribe being incomplete. I forgot how awesome they are. Beefy and cool looking.

As for my dudes, I originally modeled them to be regular C:SM Raven Guard tac marines, so plasma gun and heavy bolter in every squad. I was thinking about the special rule though, I don't know what would work best with the PG/HB set up.

 

As for the thunderbolt, that's great, I'll get more use out of them that way.

[Nusquam]

Vets are the only unit that can take those in that capacity, they get one special/heavy per 5 marines. If they're modeled as shooty then Marksmen tactic is still the best. Potential precise shots for the plasmagun to snipe out things. Then the vet HB has a suspensor web so you can choose to fire it at half range with full BS.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Yeah. That actually sounds really good.

[defl0]

What are your guys thoughts on best ROW for a flyer heavy list? 

 

And Why. 

 

I'm learning towards:

 

- skyhunter phalanx = Jet bikes are resilient and it kinda fits with the "Hawks" theme

- recon = it keeps units on the board until the birds come in.

 

Thoughts?  

[Fangbanger]

I don't think there really is, you can fit 4/5 quite easily in a 3k list

[defl0]

Yeah. I mean 3 fire raptors are only 700 points. Plus 3 lightning/xiphons... you are only like 1500 points in. 

 

So you could really do 6 to 8 at 2k. You just have to figure out how not to get shot off the board turn 1.

 

Also Anvilus are fairly cheap as well.  Finally, you can take a flier wing of 3 more flyers for fairly cheap if you don;t buy crazy expensive aircraft.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Honestly 3 fire raptors would cut the mustard in terms of effectiveness by themselves. PotMS over riding jink snap-fire and the rocket changes to them are incredibly strong  

[Biscuittzz]

Is it possible to take 3 Fire Raptors in a Decap RoW list? I don't have the books near at the moment, isn't there the sub-orbital strike wing that can group 3 together as a LoW choice? 

[Nusquam]

No, and the Raptor has too many HPs to qualify for the Sub-Orbital Strike Wing.