[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[hivey]

he does get the scout move at least. i guess youre right though.

 

im going up against iron hands soon, 2500pts. hes really competitive. me, not so much. both of us will use our primarch, and i know he has a gorgan squad, a forge father, a whirlwind scorpius, and at least one tac squad. i have all infantry except 2 laser rapiers and a sicaran. trying to think of ways to minimize the damage he can do with the whirlwind, and take it out asap.

[PastelAvenger]

Infiltrate the Rapier Batteries, you will get first turn due Alpharius's rules and use your first turn shooting it's side armour. Edited April 6, 2015 by PastelAvenger

[Hesh Kadesh]

Aside from changing your army and taking Orbital Assault + Tank Hunters, there isn't much apart from 'use AT to blow it up'. The existence of things like Scorpius, Fire Raptors and Typhons etc is to blow up lots of infantry. They have weaknesses of their own; deep strike AT, deredeo's and haywire respectively, and the trick is getting it correct. Like back when 30k first came out locally, many people were takig combinations of 20 man blobs, terminator hordes, variously kitted apothecaries, volkites, volkites everywhere and Flare Shielded Spartans. So people getting tired of getting bullied by T5* Terminators with FNP and a 4++ decided to start taking 7" blast s10 AP1 weapons and Graviton Spam. There still isn't a 'nope' button for Spartans other than taking D weapons or Grav Spam which is expensive and depending on numbers facing, can be equally undone by counter list building, which makes Spartans strong; but as people move away from tying a quarter of their list in huge assault squads with attendant transport and build more twctically flexible lists, having 10 terminatrs rip through a 5 man sniper recon squad isn't as bad as having 10 terminators kill 15 despoilers have the remaining 5 with beatstick praetor run off having killed maybe 2.

 

What I'm trying to say is that there isn't much to counter especially, there are no 'neat tricks' apart from use AT to blow up tanks, and use anti TEQ to kill terms and primarch, and anti infantry to kill infantry.

[hivey]

yeah, im kinda limited by the models i own. im thinking reserving things will work. running pride, so i'll have a melta vet squad that im going to try to DS next to the WW, and a missile vet squad i can outflank. not sure if i'll put alpharius in the 20-man blob, or have him in a vet squad (he'll be expecting him in the blob), and i'll be taking tank hunters on the melta vets at least.

 

where i infiltrate things will highly depend on how he deploys.

[Hesh Kadesh]

If you can put down what models (including special weapons, if you're limited to WYSIWYG), might be able to help you build a list (All infantry doesn't get us very far).

[hivey]

i'll post my current list.

Lord of War:
415- Alpharius

HQ:
200- Dynat
115- Exodus
120- Librarian, Mastery 2, Meltabombs

Elites:
135- 3x Apothecary
55- Laser Destroyer Rapier
55- Laser Destroyer Rapier

Troops:
290- 19 Tacticals, 1 Sergeant, 20 CCW
240- 9 Veterans, 2 Meltaguns, 1 Sergeant, Combi-Melta
250- 9 Veterans, 2 Missile Launchers, 1 Sergeant

Fast Attack:
235- 6 Headhunters, Heavy Bolter, 1 Prime

Heavy Support:
195- Sicaran, Lascannons, Armored Ceramite
185- 5 Marines, 1 Sergeant, 6 Autocannons

Total: 2500

 

 

 

 

i also have 2 more missile launcher guys, 2 heavy flamer guys, a vigilator, a praetor, and a master of signal.

Edited April 7, 2015 by hivey

[hivey]

i just realized i cant use dynat's deepstrike trait since he wont be warlord. guess im changing the list up some, or at least rethinking things.

 

EDIT: i could also use the combi-melta vet sarge as the AL consul. i could maybe use the AL specific rite or war, taking 3 10 tactical squads or 1 20 man and 2 10 man, or some other combo, and use the 4 missile launcher models and 6 autocannons as a stolen IW havoc squad.

 

I also have a second sicaran, with heavy bolters.

Edited April 7, 2015 by hivey

[PastelAvenger]

I would want a unit of 10 HeHeadhunters at this level, don't really see the point in Dynat in this list he seems kind of redundant due to Big A.

 

Proxy the Heavy Flamers and Missile Launcher guys as autocannons, I've seen a unit of ten bring down almost anything AV13<.

[hivey]

im looking to do a list without proxies.

 

EDIT: hows this? will involve changing the flamers to bolters on the models but i never really use the flamers anyways.

 

vigilator for pre-game damage, saboteur for anti-tank and free hit on something.

 

 

Lord of War:
415- Alpharius

HQ:
100- Vigilator, Volkite Charger, Meltabombs
115- Saboteur, Combi-Melta, Artificer Armor, Refractor Field
115- Exodus

Elites:
135- 3x Apothecary
55- Laser Destroyer Rapier
55- Laser Destroyer Rapier

Troops:
290- 19 Tacticals, 1 Sergeant, 20 CCW
230- 9 Veterans, 2 Meltaguns, 1 Sergeant
250- 9 Veterans, 2 Missile Launchers, 1 Sergeant
250- 9 Veterans, 2 Missile Launchers, 1 Sergeant

Heavy Support:
175- Sicaran, Lascannons
155- Sicaran, Heavy Bolters
160- 4 Marines, 1 Sergeant, 5 Autocannons

Total: 2500

 

Edited April 7, 2015 by hivey

[PastelAvenger]

So how do you explain the Headhunters then

[hivey]

i posted an edited list, in my last post. the headhunters thing was unavoidable, but i dropped them from the list anyways. having preferred enemy and infiltrate is redundant due to alpharius and me taking infiltrate as the legion rule.

[PastelAvenger]

Your Vigilator needs more equipment, at the moment he's gonna get blown away really quickly. Also where is he going?

 

Just the same as the Apothecaries they need at least AA in my opinion.

 

Without the first turn I think your army will suffer.

[hivey]

i play to put him with the big squad. infiltrate them, scout them closer, then either get a turn 1 fury of the legion off, or move them even closer and rapid fire with everyone. 

 

first turn will be fairly easy to get with alpharius.

[hivey]

does the AL unique rite allow them to take the RG specific flyer?

[Slips]

does the AL unique rite allow them to take the RG specific flyer?

Dont the units taken need to have the "Legion Astartes: ____" to be eligible? If so, then only if you take a Mor Deythan Squad since they have it as a dedicated transport option (and even then I'd probably call you out on Shenanigans but, iirc, FW said this is allowed)

[hivey]

yeah, transports are allowed. now i think about it, the mor deythan would be pretty cool, even without the transport.

 

also, i tested my list, posted earlier today. it got slaughtered. though i did play against 40k IG. opponent's list was something like tank commander vanquisher and 2 exterminators, 3 leman russ battle tanks, 2 vet squads, 1 platoon, 2 chimeras, a vindicare, an inquisitor with conversion beamer, a stormlord, and that big fortification with the two shot strength D gun (that was manned by the vindicare).

 

balance/friendly list against a list meant to just blow the other person off the table ASAP. didnt stand a chance.

[PastelAvenger]

You can't use your list though if you want to use Rights of Treason. I think you might need to rethink the entire army if you want to go down that route.

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

does the AL unique rite allow them to take the RG specific flyer?

 

Dont the units taken need to have the "Legion Astartes: ____" to be eligible? If so, then only if you take a Mor Deythan Squad since they have it as a dedicated transport option (and even then I'd probably call you out on Shenanigans but, iirc, FW said this is allowed)

Nope. Also, I don't see why it is shenanigans. A) you are using a weaker version of a RG list to get RG unique units and play like RG but not as well, b) they're not drop podding tank hunting meltas or dual grav dreads or darkfire castellax with dynat.

 

And due to how badly worded it is (define 'relevant') you can give units without legiones astartes the LA:AL rules (and hence benefit from Dynat; enjoy with your Tank Hunting Dynat bonused DT's like Spartans.

[hivey]

You can't use your list though if you want to use Rights of Treason. I think you might need to rethink the entire army if you want to go down that route.

i wasnt using the AL rite. i used pride of the legion.

[PastelAvenger]

 

You can't use your list though if you want to use Rights of Treason. I think you might need to rethink the entire army if you want to go down that route.

 

i wasnt using the AL rite. i used pride of the legion.

Have i miss read it? I thought you couldn't use Rights of Treason without taking Coils of the Hydra? If I'm wrong I apologise for any confusion.

[hivey]

i was asking about the reward for treason for IF i used the coils of the hydra. i havent used it yet, i always use pride of the legion. thats what the lists i posted are, pride. hence the vets as troops.

[PastelAvenger]

I think you're missing my point, I simply meant I don't think it's worth changing you're whole army to just fit in a Darkwing or some Tyrant Siege Terms. Although the units are good you really need to build an army around RoT.

 

Onto the issue at hand, at the moment you're very light on anti tank options. The weapons are there but are on marines which die pretty quickly to LRBTs. Infiltrating against an army like that is just going to make it easier for your opponent to take out units. In 40k armoured Ceramite is rare so melta guns get their usefulness back so it might be worthwhile looking into having a few more dotted through your list.

[Hesh Kadesh]

In 30k Armoured aceramite is rare too, or should be. If an opponent has caked every tank in AC, they should be fielding an army 200pts smaller than yours, and your melta is still S8 AP1 and you don't need to get as close. It still kills AV12, and provided you have a delivery, like drop pod, or suicide rhino, then it is still likely to cause some damage. It is also why I personally take Orbital Assault and Tank Hunters, because it is a great big middle finger to people who insis on AC, but doesn't become less effective vs those who don't.

 

Land raiders, Spartans and the superheavy equivalents with AC of course can laugh while my meltas tickle them, TH or no, but that is where you need some additional help; I use Dynat with a Praevian and Dual Grav Drop Pod Dreads (legion to keep cost down, not contemptor) in that event.

[hivey]

yeah, i didnt get what you were saying. if i was to make a coils list, it would be built around it, not just changing my current one a bit.

 

im used to playing against people with balanced lists. the guy who tore apart my army is known for playing hardcore against casuals, and has been losing people to play due to it.

 

i do need more AT, yeah, but im kinda locked with what models i have. not used to facing tons of russes though, usually im against mainly infantry.

[GreyCrow]

Hey guys ! When taking the Coils ROW, what units do you usually pick from other armies ?

 

And regarding the Rite of War, do Infantry units need to be deployed with their transport ? Or can they just pay the tax for a dedicated transport and deploy regularly ?

 

Cheers !

Edited April 19, 2015 by GreyCrow