[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[Runefyre]

You can't technically take Tartaros and shields, they are available for regular and Cataphractii only. It doesn't just say "any terminator-equipped" like Salamanders, those two types are called out. Sallies are the only ones to get sweeping 2+/3++ terminators.

 

I'm calling this extreme rules lawyering here. There is no way in hell I'm gonna deny my opponent the use of his tartaros termies just because it MIGHT be illegal. It makes no sense fluff-wise or rules-wise. I'm kinda tired of people bringing up obscure rules hitches (that were never really a problem because of common sense).

[Terminus]

It's written explicitly in the rules, nothing lawyery about it. You don't have to deny your opponent anything, including his super veteran squad that dual wields boltguns. As for making sense fluff wise, that's largely irrelevant when discussing written rules, but maybe the weight of the experimental power sources for the shields cancel out the mobility advantages of Tartaros ?

[Slips]

Looking at the old LA:CAL and LA:ICL book, the problem seems to stem from the fact that, before this new book and the FAQ that actually made Tartaros an actual Suit with its own rules, it used to just be standard Terminator Armour with nothing special going on, Cataphractii being the only one with its own rules.

 

And since the Age of Darkness Legions book was released before the FAQ/Book that granted Tartaros its own rules (book was released in March, Tartaros, iirc, was updated in the June FAQ), thats the cause behind this discrepancy.

[Terminus]

The FAQ was done in February, the June update was just to add Warlord claw.

 

There was even debate if Headhunters and Mor Deythan kept implacable advance since they were granted the rule in the FAQ, and then had it taken away by Legions a month later.

 

Going chronologically, all of the content in the two Legion red books were published after all the Legion-relevant content of the FAQ, but the newer time stamp I guess lets HH and MD keep scoring status.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Terminus

[Soldier of Dorn]

For Bob's sake, someone just email Forge World or post something on their Facebook. I'm fairly certain that the RAI is to allow Tartaros Terminators to take shields for the squad at the more expensive points cost, but sitting here and arguing back and forth isn't going to convince anyone. Of course, FW email answers are hardly Gospel truth either, but they're better than nothing.

[Terminus]

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, I just pointed out what the rules actually say. I have no insight on rules as intended.

[Charlo]

Well damn. That's some good reading whoever found it....

 

I'm almost tempted to believe that Tartaros shouldn't have them, to stop them from being just THE superior TDA config, but I suppose that is the Fist's thing.

[Slips]

Read the actual book entries again then read the terminator armour entry at the end of AoD:LAL.

 

Its pretty clear that Tartaros isn't included in the selection since they made it its own thing (wasnt and issue before sint it was just standard TDA).

 

Whether this is by design (I doubt it) or by accident remains to be seen.

 

Either way, just bombard Forgeworld asking about it until they actually bother getting a rules writer (hopefully AB) to answer.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It's definitely terminator armor.

[Slips]

Yeah.

 

But Now we have: Standard, Cataphractii and Tartaros.

 

The Storm Shield Entry only mentions the purchasing cost for 2 of those suits.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What's the exact wording of the referenced rule ? :)

[Slips]

ಠ_ಠ

 

For future reference, when debating rules, please have the rules in question at hand.

 

+++

 

"[...]Any Legion Terminator or Terminator armour-equipped independent character with the Legiones Astartes (Imperial Fists) special rule may exchange their combi-bolter for a Vigil pattern storm shield for +15 points if equipped with standard Terminator armour or for +10 points if equipped with Cataphractii Terminator armour."

 

Page 29: AoD:L

 

Page 133: LA:AoDL

"[...]

Terminator Armour

[...]

Cataphractii pattern Terminator armour

[...]

Tartaros pattern Terminator armour

[...]"

[Charlo]

"Any Legion Terminator or Terminator Armour Equipped IC with the LA(IF) special rule may exchange their combi-bolter for a vigil patter storm shield for +15 points if equipped with Standard Terminator armour or for 10 points if equipped with Cataphractii  Terminator armour."

 

No rules laywering to be had. It doesn't even mention Tartaros and this book came out post clarification right?

 

Welp, slips beat me to it.

 

But yeah...

Edited August 11, 2016 by Charlo

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Okay looks like I was wrong.

 

¥ eats some crow ... Always yummy Q_Q

[Terminus]

Can I be let down from the rules-lawyer cross now? The nails are starting to itch, and I'm not into pain like you guys. :P

[Slips]

The only reason I'm iffy on this possibly being a mistake is that word is they'll be releasing the Vigil Pattern Storm Shields:

 

 

For both Cataphractii and Tartaros, apparently, which would make 100% no sense if they can't be equipped with them in the first place.

[Terminus]

Very good point. I am sure they will clarify it around the same time as the whole thing about "no slow and purposeful" rites that were intended to block Cataphractii which now technically allow them.

[Slips]

Yeah, standard FW "minor but not-that-minor" messed up :\

[Obscura]

Mommy and Daddy, please stop fighting. . . :P

 

Tartaros with Vigil Pattern Storm Shields and Solarite Power Gauntlets look like fun and the aesthetic is definitely appealing, I will naturally make the arms magnetic to keep things interchangeable since I am not made of money and spent this months extracurricular income on better chef knives. 

 

Slips, I'll definitely keep your suggestion for Combi-Weapon armed Cataphractii in mind.

[Lord Blackwood]

well  this is an interesting development , I suppose its a good thing my TH/SS terminators are shelved at the moment for my current list building direction.   Though this certainly stops me from buying more of them. 

[Obscura]

I blame Forgeworld.

 

Then again, consistency is key.

[Soldier of Dorn]

Mommy and Daddy, please stop fighting. . .

 

Tartaros with Vigil Pattern Storm Shields and Solarite Power Gauntlets look like fun and the aesthetic is definitely appealing, I will naturally make the arms magnetic to keep things interchangeable since I am not made of money and spent this months extracurricular income on better chef knives. 

 

Slips, I'll definitely keep your suggestion for Combi-Weapon armed Cataphractii in mind.

 

Umm... one thing. While the validity of storm shield equipped Tartaros is... debatable, to say the least, I'm positive that Solarite power gauntlets are restricted to characters only, just in case you missed it.

[Obscura]

Yeah, I totally meant that. I'll just give the others power fists, for extra Imperial fisting, cause fists.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Obscura

[Slips]

Actually, Sol Gloves are Independent Characters and Templar Champion only as of now.

[jimbo13]

So off the terminator topic, how do y'all run IF recon squads? teach me your ways!!! sorry if this was answered already...