++ Gods of the Arena - A World Eaters Community ++

[Guiltysparc]

That's 1,848pts figuring on a 35pt artifact for the raptor lord

[Scribe]

Nice, certainly a lot of units running around.

[Guiltysparc]

if nothing else, i think it would look really cool on the table, lol.

[ChazSexington]

My initial thoughts are something like this but i'm not sure how i feel about it, lol.

 

Mark of Khorne, VotLW on everything

 

edit: 1848pts assuming 35pt weapon on the raptor lord

 

Warband

Khârn

 

3x Terminators - Combimeltas, power mauls, chainfist

 

3x Bikers - 2 meltaguns, lightning claw/melta bomb on sarge

3x Bikers - 2 meltaguns, lightning claw/melta bomb on sarge

 

5x Havocs - either meltaguns or autocannons

5x Havocs - either meltaguns or autocannons

 

8x CSM swap bolter for CCW

6x CSM add CCW, plasma gun

6x CSM add CCW, plasma gun

6x CSM add CCW, plasma gun

 

Raptor Talon

Raptor Lord - Sigil of Corruption, some artifact, maybe gorefather or the crazy 2d6 attack axe?

 

5x Raptors - 2 meltaguns, lightning claw/melta bomb on sargent

5x Raptors - 2 meltaguns, lightning claw/melta bomb on sargent

5x Raptors - 2 meltaguns, lightning claw/melta bomb on sargent

 

Are they in Rhinos? Cause otherwise... they dead. 

 

I would at least suggest ablative wounds for the Havocs so you don't need to remove 30-40 point models when you can remove a 14pt model.

[Guiltysparc]

no one is in anything...i could pull a couple CSMs into the havocs for ablative wounds, though with 10 bikers and 15 raptors running a screen using that free 2d6 deployment move, i'm not sure how the opponent would work out target priority so the havocs might be pretty safe.

 

the general foot sloggyness of the army is worrisome, but given the new legion rules, that seems to be the way they are set up to roll.

[Khornestar]

I feel like it's sort of a trap for units that can't move 12" a turn on their own. Just so easy to wipe 'em out in droves, and once they arrive, those CCW aren't really going to inflict that much damage. Unit champs or a single special weapon (in MSU) are the only real punch for units of CSM, that hasn't changed. A 10-strong unit just isn't likely to survive intact, and for all those lost models, is the remainder really going to do better than they would have if they were using Rhinos?

 

Maybe the point is to eat some wounds and avoid the 35 point cost to invest in more bodies. Maybe, but will the increased numbers be that significant? Sometimes yes, sometimes no is probably accurate.

 

I also wonder, because I keep seeing turn 1 charge in discussions of WE traits. Again, with units that move 12", maybe. Otherwise, no way. Even with those 12" units, how are people's opponents deploying that this is even possible? In games with my KDK/scouting hounds/Maulerfiends/bikers/bloodthirster, people usually pull back toward the table edge to shoot my units as much as possible, and also prolong the charge.

 

Not saying the movement is useless, but I don't really like the warband formation and such, so it will rarely factor into my games.

[Prot]

I still like the Warband because of ObSec, and the Bikers are very, very good now. They will hide the Jugg Lord and the possibility of someone wanting to shoot my ObSec Havoks with bikers, DP, Talons, and CSM rushing them is very unlikely. But having some ObSec sitting back is good.

 

The thing I don't like is the lack of killy. I mean my proposed set up is okay against sit back and shoot types, but against KDK? Wolves? Grey Knights? This stuff is too soft. It's going to be heavily relying on killy IC's to do a lot of heavy lifting. We need a new weapon (axe?) for the common CSM. Otherwise they're still just marines with extra attacks. Wulfen/GK/KDK will chew most of this up.

 

Warband wise, the thing is the way VotLW works and the MoK making the Warband a lot more enticing to me than overpriced Zerkers.

 

Also consider that (as some of us are KDK players we know this...) that unless you have ObSec running KDK is much more killy. Tournies use ObSec a lot too.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Prot

[Scribe]

I look at the MSU as 5 guys, and you have to kill them all. If even 1 lives that's another unit or round of shooting dedicated to kill it.

 

I don't imagine anything but bikes/jumpers/spawn/dp will fully leverage the free move, and we will need to lean on our Lords to do work.

 

I don't know, I don't run with people who play the top meta lists anyway so my comparable results will be different.

 

Going to try and run a proxy game on the weekend though.

[Prot]

That's mostly how I see it too. The Lords/DP will be doing most of the heavy lifting. No room for Khârn so far, but I'm making lists for this week. We'll see... I want to test out a few Legions. ;)

[Khornestar]

Yeah, likewise in the list I put together. Just really a better variant of my KDK list, due to the artifacts and DPs who can make use of them.

[Relic]

I have a very rough draft of a 1850 list I could try out, which doesn't require much effort to get up to scratch. Basically two warbands as the core, with mid price lords (let the boon table buff them up), 12 5 man CSM squads with a mix of Melta and flamers, 2 min chosen squads with a Melta in each, a havoc squad with same and a bike squad (lords go here), spawn as the auxiliary choice. Lots of objective secure, 80 fearless models, play it like battle company, sans transports, but much more effective in CC and fearless. At the end of the day, lots of MEQs don't win by killing opponents, they win by standing on objectives. Whilst Khorne CSM aren't winning many fights vs dedicated assault units, they will bully allot of common stuff. Vs real assault armies, I think you'll just have to play off your obsec advantage and use squads as movement blockers.

 

Problem is, whilst I think the CSM are great fun, I think other builds do it better (Battle company for objective secure, any number of armies are better in CC.) I don't know if my Tau army for example, would be particularly afraid of marines on foot, unless the objectives are lopsided to the middle of the board.

[Cheex]

Before the supplement dropped, I saw a few people wishlisting that Berzerkers would gain access to Dreadclaws. And while the Berzerker unit entry hasn't (not that I expected it to), CSM and Chosen certainly have access to them. Just another option to keep in mind for delivery methods.

 

Speaking of Chosen, I'm really interested to try them out as Berzerker substitutes in a Warband. They're only a point more than Berzerkers and don't have the WS5, but they do gain bolters (on top of their pisols and CCWs), +1A and have a pile of weapon options.

 

Another thing I'd like to try is the Favoured of Chaos formation. Possessed have become almost identical to KDK Possessed (they just straight-up gain Furious Charge rather than via Daemon of Khorne), and the Berzerker Glaive makes a Khorne Prince usable. While in range of the Prince, all of the Possessed would have S7 striking at Init 5, rerolling wounds and at AP3.

[Prot]

Yes chosen is a good thought. Strength 5 claws with rage, and shred....this is why I actually like Raptor Talon now.

 

Chosen could be a real gem though too.

[Khornestar]

My skullcrushers/bikers prepare to trample some fools:

 

http://i.imgur.com/POfWpzkl.jpg

 

Looking forward to using my World Eaters transfers on 'em! Finally, I commit my bloody services to the XIIth.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Venomlust

[Relic]

Chosen are pretty pricey though, for a MEQ inf model. If you can get them into the fray, great! But getting acrosss the board in one piece is another thing..

[Scribe]

Question, under the Legion rules it states we 'may' choose from the new Relics. Is it normal for a Supplement to allow mix and match with the parent book?

[Cheex]

Both the Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter books allowed it in their updated versions from this year.

[Scribe]

Very cool, my Juggerlord with AoBF continues then. :D

[Prot]

I was wondering that myself. I was looking at the wording of the pictures leaked from the codex and I don't see why you can't do that. I was hoping there would be a 'generic' axe for the Berzerkers.

 

Here's something though.... Somebody asked Noob if the free 2D6 pre game move allowed you to assault, and I think he said 'no'.

 

Well I just read the pages posted up and I can't find anything that would stop you from assaulting T1 with the Detachment special rule..... has anyone verified this?

[Scribe]

He corrected himself on that, there's no reason you couldnt unless some other rule prevents it. Its just a free move.

[Hathis]

i had my fears for this update, but i am delighted to see GW have moved closer to my own view of the Worldeaters.

[Prot]

What I truly like... love about this is I always thought the scope of World Eaters was a bit too narrow. We've seen now with the awesome HH background that a great ship commander can be extremely tactful, and still dissect an Imperial ship with tactical genius.

 

A World Eater can fall in love with the idea of blowing junk up in massive chunks with a Vindicator, or a Lascannon... etc, etc. And now this is all possible. I love it.

 

I actually think more and more that I like Raptor Talon too.

[Khornestar]

The raptor talon is awesome, just kind of unfortunate that the Mark of Khorne bonuses are almost a tax on the unit, given disordered charge.

[Minsc]

What are the consensus on our artifacts?

 

Talisman of Burning Blood is awesome but what wargear do you give a Chaos Lord with this?

He can't take another relic, so is stuck with mundane weaponry. Lightning Claw and Powerfist on a Juggernaught?

 

The Berserkers Glavie screams Daemon Prince. I can't see this work on a Chaos Lord, too squishy to be left on his own.

 

Brass Collar of Bhorghaster is nice and fluffy, but I can't see myself using most of the time, mostly due to the 1-relic-per-model-limitation.

 

I'm torn on Gorefather. It's a really cool weapon, and at first glance it looks good, but then you see "Unwieldy" and it falls apart. I cant see myself using this on a Chaos Lord for this reason alone. Granted, Unwieldy is negated on a Daemon Prince, so it looks more appealing, and suddently you have a weigh-off between Berserkers Glavie and Gorefather;

+D6 attacks, Feel No Pain and It Will Not Die vs. Armourbane and ID on 6's on a model with S8. I'd probably roll with the Glavie most of the time.

Sigh, if only Gorefather wasn't Unwieldy...

 

The Crimson Killer. A slightly more expensive plasma pistol with soulblaze that doesn't get hot? Cool, not too shabby, but as with the Brass Collar I can't see myself using this mostly for the 1-relic-per-model-limitation. Any Khorne character worth a damn prioritizes a good melee weapon over a ranged weapon!

 

Bloodfeeder is a massive letdown in my opinion. I really thought it was +2D6 attacks at first (as it was in 4th Ed.), but as it is, I can't see myself using it ...ever.

Not only is it Unwieldy (so again, not something I want on my Chaos Lord), but it's not really that great to begin with; Daemon Weapons will give you more attacks most of the time, and often with other better stats to boot. Comparing this to the Axe of Blind Fury for instance, we have (on a Chaos Lord) 4+D6 attacks at WS5 and S6, vs 2D6 attacks at WS6 and S5, Unwieldy. Most people would probably go with AoBF, and on Princes it becomes even worse since they have a higher base A that they loose.

[Khornestar]

What are the consensus on our artifacts?

 

Talisman of Burning Blood is awesome but what wargear do you give a Chaos Lord with this?

He can't take another relic, so is stuck with mundane weaponry. Lightning Claw and Powerfist on a Juggernaught?

 

The Berserkers Glavie screams Daemon Prince. I can't see this work on a Chaos Lord, too squishy to be left on his own.

 

Brass Collar of Bhorghaster is nice and fluffy, but I can't see myself using most of the time, mostly due to the 1-relic-per-model-limitation.

 

I'm torn on Gorefather. It's a really cool weapon, and at first glance it looks good, but then you see "Unwieldy" and it falls apart. I cant see myself using this on a Chaos Lord for this reason alone. Granted, Unwieldy is negated on a Daemon Prince, so it looks more appealing, and suddently you have a weigh-off between Berserkers Glavie and Gorefather;

+D6 attacks, Feel No Pain and It Will Not Die vs. Armourbane and ID on 6's on a model with S8. I'd probably roll with the Glavie most of the time.

Sigh, if only Gorefather wasn't Unwieldy...

 

The Crimson Killer. A slightly more expensive plasma pistol with soulblaze that doesn't get hot? Cool, not too shabby, but as with the Brass Collar I can't see myself using this mostly for the 1-relic-per-model-limitation. Any Khorne character worth a damn prioritizes a good melee weapon over a ranged weapon!

 

Bloodfeeder is a massive letdown in my opinion. I really thought it was +2D6 attacks at first (as it was in 4th Ed.), but as it is, I can't see myself using it ...ever.

Not only is it Unwieldy (so again, not something I want on my Chaos Lord), but it's not really that great to begin with; Daemon Weapons will give you more attacks most of the time, and often with other better stats to boot. Comparing this to the Axe of Blind Fury for instance, we have (on a Chaos Lord) 4+D6 attacks at WS5 and S6, vs 2D6 attacks at WS6 and S5, Unwieldy. Most people would probably go with AoBF, and on Princes it becomes even worse since they have a higher base A that they loose.

 

Pretty much agreed on everything. Until you mentioned it, I didn't even realize Bloodfeeder was Unwieldy. Thumbs down, for sure.

 

As for Gorefather vs. Glaive, I want to take two princes and both artifacts.

 

Fist/claws for the talisman juggerlord is a maybe for me. At first glance, his strength to me is more about delivering T1 (if lucky) attack spam from a huge unit of KDK hounds and tying something nasty up so the rest of the slightly slower army can catch up with more models/wounds intact and inflict the heavy blows. Fisticlaws isn't a bad option, but when a Juggerlord needs AP2 and is himself facing a melee threat, I find that waiting until I1 usually results in mutual destruction, as opposed to AoBF where he splatters most of the unit before they get a chance to swing at him. So I'd say maybe just the claw to shred a few models and keep him cheap. But then again, if tanks are his target then a fist would be great.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Venomlust