++ Gods of the Arena - A World Eaters Community ++

[Commissar K.]

 

Nah, it only means they screwed up and forgot to add something into the Codex that we had in the Index already. If the Index were still relevant, they could just have referenced the Index instead.

 

 

That being said the only things that the Index still has to offer for CSM are the mounted HQ Datasheets which should be useable according to GW since they didn't get replaced by new Codex Datasheets. Tho they should really write it into the FAQ to make it "officially official".

 

It depends how you look at that, Berzerker Horde technically speaking is a rule directly imported out of the Index. However it matters little as this is the up to date version. I think that however it was done it's an example of rushing things. It reminds me of doing fast groceries while your hungry and forget some stuff :P 

 

I think they might keep the officially official stuff all in the Indexes until most Codex are released and we're getting Chapter Approved stuff. As I recall Chapter Approved stuff usually contained converted models anyway? (Its been a long time since my last peek into one) As this would be a nice segway into allowing many new and wonderful conversion again but I do believe that GW sees those models more as a smaller part of the game and first wants to furthermore flesh out whole factions instead of these smaller parts.

 

Thats just my thake on it really, I dont think anyone at GW wants to rush it as much as its rushed really :P 

[Panzer]

 

 

 

 

As soon as I read the article my first thought was "Commissar K and I have a lot of 'I told you so's' in order" Very happy about this news and to know we were right!

 

 

It's only a great thing to happen. More importantly it still means that the Index is indeed as relevant as ever. 

 

Nah, it only means they screwed up and forgot to add something into the Codex that we had in the Index already. If the Index were still relevant, they could just have referenced the Index instead.

 

That being said the only things that the Index still has to offer for CSM are the mounted HQ Datasheets which should be useable according to GW since they didn't get replaced by new Codex Datasheets. Tho they should really write it into the FAQ to make it "officially official".

 

Lol.. you guys and your refusal to accept that the index is still valid make me laugh. This is something I brought up in a different thread, but, since GW didn't clarify anything for Plague Marines and Rubric Marines I guess DG and TS are screwed till they get their codex, right? 

 

And you lack of understanding what people like me are saying makes me laugh in return.

The Index is not relevant for CSM because they got their Codex. DG and TS aren't part of CSM anymore so they don't have any Codex that would replace their Index stuff. You can't just throw CSM, DG and TS in one pot anymore.

[Berzerker88]

I'd rather go the fluffy route and play to RIP AND TEAR my oponent until everything that can be dead and dismembered is dead and dismembered.

 

But obviously you need those points in competitive games. Which is why I like Killpoints so much :D

[Khornestar]

I'd much rather they keep the codex up to date than refer to the index for anything other than those units whose situation we know by now. 

 

Berzerkers as troooooops :cuss yeah! Really happy it did end up being an oversight and not some weird design change.

[Brother Aiwass]

 

With 4 shots oblits are pretty decent now imho. Since I don't like the models, I'm considering converting terminators dual wielding reaper autocannons

Same here, something has to be done with those models, parts of it are nice, but the head is just too terrible to look at! Ive also played with the idea to give them some Forgefiend weapons as one arm and a massive claw for the other... Or something... That's for later, now Im fully enjoying the fact that our Berzerkers just recieved a great and logical update.

 

What's your thake on a Daemon Prince of Khorne Warlord with Talisman, Daemonic Axe and additional attack Warlord Trait? Im not the best at crunching those numbers but I have a gut feeling it might actually be a stronger consideration as the Talons, by large because that additional Strength makes the difference against pretty much all Vechicles and MEQs right?

 

Well, with dual talons and the +A trait

 

Vs vehicles (T7) it would make 4,44 damage

 

Vs MEQ about ~6 damage

 

With the axe:

 

Vs vehicles (T7) 6,94 damage

Vs MEQ 8,68 damage

 

So yeah, with the axe he is more deadly against both, however, since dmg doesn't spread with other models, he'll be killing only 2,9 MEQ so he's great for character hunter (way better than the Exalted Chap ) if he has wings, but not that good attacking MEQ squads of 7+ models.

 

Note, forgot the +1A for the legion trait and the other for being khorne so the numbers may up a bit, but still favor the axe if I did things well, which I may not since I'm really tired.

 

Cheers.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Brother Aiwass

[Commissar K.]

Thanks for crunching the numbers man! Well I think the Axe Daemon Prince would be a new project then. Magnetizing it should be a real easy option also. As I feel that dealing with Marines specifically will be a task for the World Eater Berzerker Troops anyway.

Eliminating those key multi-wound assets in many cases matters more because I feel quantity of attacks is always provided by Berzerkers anwyay, what is more difficult is to stack on wounds. The Berzerker Champions can certainly do it but in my ideal world those too are smashig alongside into infantry.

The cool thing is that the Daemon Prince still comes with one set of Talons in my book so we're not really losing out on attacks vs strenght and now the World Eater Legion Trait is also there for him I think it can make all the relevant difference. 

Cheers!

[Rodrick]

a quick question,  Heldrake have the "daemon" keyword,  if  i take mark of khorne...  the are khorne daemon?  

does khorne herald's +1 str affects heldrakes?

Edited August 20, 2017 by Rodrick

[Cheex]

a quick question, Heldrake have the "daemon" keyword, if i take mark of khorne... the are khorne daemon?

does khorne herald's +1 str affects heldrakes?

Yep. As long as the unit has both the KHORNE and DAEMON keywords, it can be affected by the Khorne Herald's aura. It doesn't matter if they are Faction or regular keywords; once the game starts, there is no difference.

 

On the topic of berzerkers being troops again, I'm quite happy to be wrong in what I assumed GW would say :) I was fully prepared to have to take them as Elites everywhere.

[Rodrick]

 

a quick question, Heldrake have the "daemon" keyword, if i take mark of khorne... the are khorne daemon?

does khorne herald's +1 str affects heldrakes?

Yep. As long as the unit has both the KHORNE and DAEMON keywords, it can be affected by the Khorne Herald's aura. It doesn't matter if they are Faction or regular keywords; once the game starts, there is no difference.

 

On the topic of berzerkers being troops again, I'm quite happy to be wrong in what I assumed GW would say I was fully prepared to have to take them as Elites everywhere.

 

that's what i thought , thanks mate

[Commissar K.]

Thats correct, Daemons and other supporting abilities looking for keywords really come into effect during a game and are quite synergetic. It's just not always that easy to include multiple Detachments in addition it's also very important to keep track of which unit belongs to which Detachment because Legion Traits and the likes still look for that.

In the end Chaos is quite Chaotic :P Especially if you want to keep track of it all and know your options. Because of that and the fact that most Daemons dont have too much to offer now by say Sorcerer comparison I'd be more inclined to run a Renegade/Alpha Legion/Black Legion Warband next to World Eaters to cover their support. Their advantage really also comes in with being able to thake other Marks of Chaos.

Comming to the point though, I feel that a Daemon Herald is great but a Sorcerer is easier to include and more often provides "more support" in the current state of things. From a narrative standpoint though mix as you like. Skarbrand thaking Aircrafts is the funniest thing. 

[Cryptix]

Don't forget that you don't need to be a Sorceror to summon, just need to be a chaos character.

[BrassClaw]

Do we still lose our legion trait if we add bloodletters?

 

my gut says yes, but i'm not 100%

[Commissar K.]

Do we still lose our legion trait if we add bloodletters?

 

my gut says yes, but i'm not 100%

Unfortunatly we do, though you can go for a second detachment and all that.

[Prot]

I think you're going to have to summon those Bloodletters or do what I do and just make a side detachment.

 

I'm waiting for the day when I can properly recreate my KDK. Right now I'm still having a lot of difficulty getting pure WE to work in my meta. But I really have to start considering things like Obliterators, etc.

[Commissar K.]

I think you're going to have to summon those Bloodletters or do what I do and just make a side detachment.

 

I'm waiting for the day when I can properly recreate my KDK. Right now I'm still having a lot of difficulty getting pure WE to work in my meta. But I really have to start considering things like Obliterators, etc.

I hear you and agree. I do think for WE the Forge World choices and Obliterators are what we need overall. I do expect Daemon Codex to be really cool aswell, so I hope that will come this year because then Im certain KDK can be recreated.

 

I also hope 2018 will bring new Bezerkers but that hope has been around for me since 12 years now ;)

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I think you're going to have to summon those Bloodletters or do what I do and just make a side detachment.

 

I'm waiting for the day when I can properly recreate my KDK. Right now I'm still having a lot of difficulty getting pure WE to work in my meta. But I really have to start considering things like Obliterators, etc.

 

I feel like the Spartan is going to be a big part of helping World Eaters work because it does everything right.. It's got the carrying capacity to bring a lot of Zerkers and some left over for Khârn and other buffing characters as well.. couple that with excellent firepower and that fact it is almost impenetrable makes it absolutely worth the pricetag. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Bloody Legionnaire

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

 

I think you're going to have to summon those Bloodletters or do what I do and just make a side detachment.

 

I'm waiting for the day when I can properly recreate my KDK. Right now I'm still having a lot of difficulty getting pure WE to work in my meta. But I really have to start considering things like Obliterators, etc.

I feel like the Spartan is going to be a big part of helping World Eaters work because it does everything right.. It's got the carrying capacity to bring a lot of Zerkers and some left over for Khârn and other buffing characters as well.. couple that with excellent firepower and that fact it is almost impenetrable makes it absolutely worth the pricetag.

Can confirm, Spartan is incredible for us. Have won 4 of 5 8th edition games I've played using it and it has been absolutely clutch as far as being able to get its contents where they're needed, and its firepower is pretty disgusting as well (he blew up 2 twin autocannon dreads in 2 turns in my most recent game whilst dumping his cargo into the center of the enemy army)

[Berzerker88]

So, is the Juggerlord still worth taking? Due to being Cavalry he does not benefit from out Legion trait, and thus gets less attacks than any of the Lord variants, while also having significantly less mobility, since he can't deepstrike and the mount is slower than bikes and transports, which he cannot embark.

 

The mount's attacks due to their poor AP could only be decent against light infantry, but we have Berzerkers to deal with those.

 

What do you guys think?

[MoK]

I put together a Supreme Command Detatchment with a FW Vanguard det.

3x Juggerlords and a Terminator Squad and Lord of Skulls. The other Det is Zhufur and 3x Contemptors.

I would love for this whole detatchment to have World Eaters traits.

[Commissar K.]

Yeah the Spartan must be awesome, it exactly does what we want. Which is to A. Transport our Berzerkers and B. Deal with Vechicles and multiwound stuff thats usually out of Berzerker reach. On top of that a Spartan is an almost obvious narrative inclusion for World Eater armies. It would be amazing if GW decided to ever make one in it's reflection.

Berzerker88, due to the Daemon Prince change there are indeed a very few reasons as to why you want to include him. Still he does bring some advantages which cannot be overlooked with the Axe of Blind Fury but other than that I would not be likely playing him because Daemon Princes allready mattered but matter all the more now.
Overall I think the Chaos Lord on Juggernaut is a personal inclusion that you should add if you think the conversion is going to be awesome and all that. He's not bad at all and the single potential attack on the charge that is lost isn't huge factor for me. With Axe of Blind Fury, a Warlord Trait and Combi weapon he's bound up to be decent enough. Some advantages the Chaos Lord on Juggernaut keeps are:

- 4++ save
- Juggernaut charge are still a lot of S7+ attacks
- Acces to Combi Weapons

For me personally the thing remains that I love the look of Daemon Princes and the Legion Trait pushes me towards them, granted missing out on the Axe of Blind Fury isn't a smart thing to do if you play World Eaters ;) 

[Cheex]

The more I think about it, the less I like the Axe of Blind Fury. On a juggerlord, you're better off with a power fist IMHO. He might be at -1 to hit, but at least he can reroll 1s and won't attack his own allies. Plus he's S10 and doesn't use up a relic slot that could be used by something else.

[Commissar K.]

The more I think about it, the less I like the Axe of Blind Fury. On a juggerlord, you're better off with a power fist IMHO. He might be at -1 to hit, but at least he can reroll 1s and won't attack his own allies. Plus he's S10 and doesn't use up a relic slot that could be used by something else.

Well I personally have gotten used to playing Khârn so being within 1" or not is more of a choice than anything else. As there is little to no reason to be around those guys in melee and not be around during the shooting stages. A Power Fist certainly does go a long way aswell, especially on the Juggerlord, the hits will be more or less the same though. As a 3+ with re-rolls of 1's vs a 2+ more or less does the same. The difference for me simply isn't too big, I feel Artefacts arn't supposed to blow their original weapons out of the water anyway and if anything are more of a visual preforance.

 

In my opinion pretty much all of them still fold to either Khârn or a well tooled up Daemon Prince of Khorne, World Eater flavoured, so if you feel like spending those additional 20-40 "extra points" I believe the reward is much greater in playing those anyway. Basically reminds me of the Exalted Champion discussion last week Yes you could thake X and Y but for just a fraction of additional points you get something that is so much better that it's almost a shame if you didn't use it. Though you do pay those couple of extra points for it.

 

One typical advantage of playing World Eaters now to me is that Berzerkers arn't actually that expensive as Troop choices for the power they put out. I still believe Morale can be an issue but frankly speaking that's about it. So with this in mind I don't mind to spend a little extra extra on HQ, as long as we're not talking 250+ points of HQ per model. 

In that same design I feel that pretty much any World Eater player that wants to have some competative leverage should play Khârn and a Daemon Prince of Khorne as its Warlord.

Strap on that Talisman of Burning Blood, bring a Daemonic Axe, add him into that World Eater Detachment and give it Exalted Champion and we're looking a very likely charging Daemon Prince with 7 (1 for Khorne, 1 for charge, 1 for exalted champion)+1 attacks(talons), Strenght 8, AP -3 and DMG 3. Which seems kind of blowing other options out of the water anyway.

 

Axe of Blind Fury indeed isn't much better as a Power Fist, at the same time an AoBF is 5 points and a PF is 12, so it's really just a 7 point gift. Which can almost pay for the Combi Flamer ;).

Edited August 21, 2017 by Commissar K.

[Panzer]

Well why not both...one Juggerlord with Axe and one with a Powerfist. :D

[Commissar K.]

Well why not both...one Juggerlord with Axe and one with a Powerfist.

Heheh! Why not!  Though Combi Weaponry isnt a half bad alternative either and in some cases might be prefered.

 

The thing is that the Berzerker Champion does a ton of leverage with his Power Fist also so usually the Strenght 10 melee attack department is covered well enough for my liking. To the point where some specific 'almost auto-hits' become the next relevant part.

 

It's still funny how the World Eater Berzerker Champion in many cases is more of a bad ass as the HQ we're working with :P 

[Panzer]

 

Well why not both...one Juggerlord with Axe and one with a Powerfist.

Heheh! Why not!  Though Combi Weaponry isnt a half bad alternative either and in some cases might be prefered.

 

The thing is that the Berzerker Champion does a ton of leverage with his Power Fist also so usually the Strenght 10 melee attack department is covered well enough for my liking. To the point where some specific 'almost auto-hits' become the next relevant part.

 

It's still funny how the World Eater Berzerker Champion in many cases is more of a bad ass as the HQ we're working with

 

Only until you guys get your own Berzerker HQs. ;)