++ Gods of the Arena - A World Eaters Community ++

[Cheex]

It would be very cool to see a three-way clash between Imperium, Orks and Khorne on Armageddon :)

 

Unrelated thought: has anyone tried the Kill Maim Burn stratagem yet? I've been thinking about it and it looks really powerful on units that can fight more than once, which would allow them to consolidate 6" twice that phase.

 

Berzerkers charge, wipe out their target in their first round of attacks. Pop the stratagem and consolidate 6". Even if you don't make it into combat with a second unit, they can activate again because they charged that turn. The stratagem lasts until the end of the phase, so the second consolidation is also 6".

 

You could potentially move 15" after killing the first unit to engage one or more extra enemy units. You wouldn't get to attack them and they would get to attack you, but it's one way to get through enemy screens.

[crazy_tuco]

 

Looks like berzerkers went down a point, daemon princes went down in points, as did warp talons. Plenty of other things, too, but those stood out to me. Cool!

 

 

Terminators are also going down 5pts, power fists are also cheaper. The community was already agreeing that Red Butchers were worth it, this just makes them better.

 

These point reductions have made my day .... cheaper Bez means all my Rhinos will have havoc launchers. I have a tonne of termies already, but none are red butchers so it might give me an excuse to get the battleforce. Also, I've always liked the look of warp talons, so if they are more viable on the tabletop i might get a set or 2   

 

 

It's also worth noting for Warp Talons, and to a lesser extent Terminators, that Lightning Claws also dropped.  The total points drop on a single Warp Talon when equipment is included, is 5 points.  Not too shabby.  Basically compared to their previous points cost they're now buy four get one free.  

[Macbeefin]

I played a game against Custodes with the new rules last night and thought I’d drop some thoughts here:

 

I used apoplectic frenzy on a smash lord with talisman of burning blood which ended up taking him 27” up the board in turn 1 and straight for a t1 charge. Unfortunately due to Custodes invuln saves and FNP he only smashed one guardian, and then promptly died. He really needs to go against vehicles without invuln - but I think if he does combining him with this strat will be a solid way for WE to get first strike/blood.

 

I think the best thing about having so many great fighting strats is that now all of my zerks can power up in one combat. Previously you could only put VOTLW on one, and the rest would have to fight normally, but now I can have vets on one, -1 AP one the other (which was lethal against Custodes), and 5+ DttFE on another. That seriously helps our lethality, because in my opinion we need to be wiping out most of our opponents army the turn our zerks charge.

 

I managed to nearly wipe all his units on the table with my zerk charge + these strats, but the next turn his deep striking termies and Trajan came wheeling in and mopped up my remaining zerks pretty handily between the 4 of them. I guess this is where our stratagems havent helped at all, as zerks are just as fragile as ever. I did manage to take Trajans head with my exalted champ with Berzerker glaive however, and got 3 CP back with skulls for the skull throne

Edited December 6, 2019 by Macbeefin

[Khornestar]

I've been thinking a lot lately about how to best take advantage of terminators via the Red Butchers stratagem. I don't play tournies etc. so consider this outside of that context. Just a bunch of rambling really, hope you find it entertaining at least as an exercise in pointless math. I put a LOT of thought into this…

 

My answer is chainfists.

 

Red Butchers terminators are awesome because they get +1S and because the entire unit can purchase melee weapons. Obviously, fighting twice is an insanely good icing on the cake. As with berzerkers, Icon of Wrath 100% of the time.

 

I feel like until the unit hits S8, might as well be running berzerkers with chainaxes+chainswords and a power fist+chainsword on the champ. This is because S7 can hurt vehicles, but only on a 4+, 5+ for knights, and 3+ for primaris. A berzerker champ with a fist can bash anything up real good, and the rest of the unit can slaughter troops or ding up a vehicle a bit. Berzerkers and terminators have the same number of attacks, not counting chainswords. World Eaters will already be spamming berzerkers as troops, so IMO the only way to "justify" the Red Butchers is to have them do something different. One option is to spam S10 attacks.

 

Regular terminators hit S8 with a fist. They wound primaris on 2+, T7 on 3+, and knights on 4+. That means with Veterans of the Long War, they can wound anything on a 3+ at worst. Red Butchers in this situation are bumped to S10, where they can wound knights on a 2+ using Veterans. Once we get here, primaris and knights (among others) still get a 6+ armor save, and there is always the "dreaded" potential to get a 1 on the damage roll. I feel like I might as well go for chainfists, because they've got -4 AP and consistent 2 damage. No armor saves for most targets, and consistent 2 damage. Other than invulns and FNP (which obviously matter a lot), chainfists reduce defense as much as possible. This would require a crucial stratagem (Wild Fury) to achieve with power fists, now free to be used to buff another unit. Potential for damage is pretty huge.

 

To begin with, I consider the unit to have just successfully charged. That means 2 attacks base +1 from legion trait +1 for hateful assault. 4 attacks per terminator, 5 on the champ = 21 total for the first activation. On their own, a unit armed entirely with power fists will kill 7 primaris marines. A unit armed entirely with chainfists will kill 8 primaris. Not a huge difference, and most units will only be 5 models large. However, with things like FNP or invuln saves from nearby characters, that extra kill will help to finish the unit off.

 

Against a knight, fists will do 8.75 damage. Chainfists will do 14 damage, which is ~38% more than fists, and enough to bracket the knight down into its second tier. At this point I assume that the knight player will interrupt so it can stomp as many terminators to death as it can.

 

So then let’s apply buffs to see just how much we can hurt that knight in a single activation of combat. With chainfists and Veterans of the long war, they’ll deal 17.5 damage to the knight.

If a lord/daemon prince are nearby to allow re-rolling 1’s, chainfists will deal 21 damage. With both buffs active at once, they’ll deal 26.25 damage to the knight, killing it before it can strike back. Power fists would only be doing 17.25 damage with the same buffs active on the unit, though this can be increased to 21 with Wild Fury active. These are all buffs that are readily accessible and don’t require any particularly masterful positioning to achieve. A 1 CP strat and a nearby HQ that would likely be there anyway in many lists.

 

Just for fun, if the unit was buffed with Veterans of the Long War, Re-roll wounds thanks to a nearby Exalted Champion, Re-roll 1’s buff from a Lord/DP, +1 hit from Prescience (now allowing Death to the False Emperor to pop off on 6’s to hit), and +1 attack from the Banner of Rage, they could deal 46 damage to the knight. Obscene, right? Also requires just a ridiculous number of buffs. However, keep in mind that only the terminator champion and 2 terminators need to attack to kill the knight in 1 activation. HAHA! However, the overkill is so absurd that really, on average, all they need to kill a knight in 1 activation the terminator champion and 4 terminators with Veterans of the Long War, Re-roll 1’s from a Lord/DP, and the aura from an Exalted Champion.

 

Now the problem is delivery. These are the options I came up with, not sure if I missed any: Deployed in my deployment zone, 9” past the deployment zone using Apopleptic Frenzy, in a Dreadclaw, in a Land Raider, in a Kharybdis, in a Storm Eagle, or good ol’ fashioned Deep Strike.

 

Deployment zone: Dumb.

 

Apopleptic Frenzy (as heck): Decent perhaps if an allied witch is around to use Warp Time on them. However, 9+6+6=21 inches of movement, which means the opponent will be no closer than 4 inches away, meaning a 3” charge is all they would need. However, the likelihood the opponent will charitably deploy a unit right on the line seems pretty unlikely. You don’t have to use as heck until just before the game begins, so it can be reactionary to an extent, but it’s not hard to guess where that unit of terminators on the edge of the deployment zone is going.

 

Dreadclaw: Can be used in two ways. The first is to start it on the table, and the other is to deep strike it. If started on the table, it can move 15” while protecting those terminators. If the opponent happens to move close, a turn 2 charge is possible. More viable is hurling the Dreadclaw with Warp Time. That means the Dreadclaw gets 30” of movement turn 1, which should be enough to essentially guarantee a charge with the Dreadclaw itself. Maybe it’ll kill a model or two, but really it just needs to survive until T2. It might not, as it isn’t hard to kill at all. At any rate, the advantage is that on T2 the terminators are as close as they can possibly be to the opponent’s models (i.e. closer than 9” is possible here). This makes a successful charge more likely, though it’s also fully possible that the Dreadclaw will be destroyed, maybe blow up, and then the terminators will be shot at and killed before anything happens. The other way is to deep strike it, and the only benefit that provides is to prevent an interceptor-like strat to be used on the terminators. As crazy as that sounds, against certain lists that might make all the difference. Hellblasters wouldn’t have a hard time nuking 5 terminators.

 

Land Raider: Ugh. So expensive. Lascannons are cool and all, but this model is huge and slower than a Dreadclaw. It is of course tougher to kill, though it might not be able to fit through certain terrain features and get hung up on stuff.

 

Kharybdis: Similar to the Dreadclaw, but almost 3 times as expensive, T8, has lots of attacks, and enough transport capacity for 10 other infantry models. This makes bringing buffing HQs and/or 5-man units of berzerkers (or whatever) possible. Same with Warp Time as the Dreadclaw. Lots of eggs in 1 basket, but movement doesn’t degrade. Unlike the Dreadclaw, it’s possible that the Kharybdis will actually survive until its occupants disembark not via an explosion. Still though, tons of points.

 

Storm Eagle: Really expensive, though it can help to clear chaff a little bit. Same transport occupancy situation as the Kharybdis (20 models). However, this one doesn’t need Warp Time to get across the table. It can zoom up 45 inches and still shoot, though obviously it can’t charge and get stuck in combat. Make of that what you will. I think it has potential because you’re free to Warp Time something else alongside it (like a Lord of Skulls).

 

Deep Strike: The most practical solution. Deep strike alongside a warlord with the +1” advance and charge trait and hope for the best. About a 70% chance of success with a re-roll of some kind. Roughly 1 in 3 times (or every single time, if you’re me) it will fail. This is the same chance of success (using that warlord buff) as any of the above options, so really it boils down to whether or not the Red Butchers “need” a transport for any of the reasons I came up with. No witches necessary.

 

And finally, here is a list I came up with that I’m very excited to try:

 

3 World Eaters Battalions

 

 

Battalion: Host Raptorial

 

HQ:

Chaos Lord with Jump Pack: Thunder hammer, Relic; Warlord Trait: +1” to advance/charge rolls

Chaos Lord with Jump Pack: Thunder hammer, Warlord Trait: Host Raptorial: +2” charge

Troops:

Berzerkers x5: Power Fist+Chainsword on champ, Chainaxe+Chainsword on rest, Icon of Wrath

Berzerkers x5: Power Fist+Chainsword on champ, Chainaxe+Chainsword on rest, Icon of Wrath

Berzerkers x5: Power Fist+Chainsword on champ, Chainaxe+Chainsword on rest, Icon of Wrath

Warp Talons x5

Rhino A: Combi-bolter

Rhino B: Combi-bolter

Rhino C: Combi-bolter

Rhino D: Combi-bolter

 

Battalion: Soulforged Pack

Lord Discordant: Autocannon, Techno-virus injector; Warlord Trait: +2” move for detachment

Lord Discordant: Autocannon, Techno-virus injector

Berzerkers x5: Power Fist+Chainsword on champ, Chainaxe+Chainsword on rest, Icon of Wrath

Berzerkers x5: Power Fist+Chainsword on champ, Chainaxe+Chainsword on rest, Icon of Wrath

Berzerkers x5: Power Fist+Chainsword on champ, Chainaxe+Chainsword on rest, Icon of Wrath

 

Battalion

Dark Apostle: Relic

Dark Disciples x2

Exalted Champion: Chainaxe

Cultists x10: Autoguns

Cultists x10: Autoguns

Cultists x10: Autoguns

Terminators x5: Combi-bolter x5, Chainfist x5, Icon of Wrath

 

That’s 18 CP before getting started, and after detachments are upgraded, Red Butchers taken, and warlord traits/relics, the list has 11 CP to play around with. Turn 2 the lords and warp talons deep strike and attempt to make their 6” charges, or 7” if only one comes down. Those should be able to clear some room for the terminators and remaining lord to come down and do their thing.

 

I’m very excited to try this list out!

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Juggernut

[Sagentus]

Dam the stats on that are EPIC! and certainly makes red butchers a viable option to slay Knights with, i bet it would be a massive surprise to a lot of people. I think i will use combi flamer / chainfist, as I dont want to change the models given to me. 

 

How many points does that list equate to? 

 

**I run out of likes Juggernut, otherwise i would have liked it too**

Edited December 10, 2019 by Sagentus

[Khornestar]

It’s a 2000 point list, surprisingly.

[Sagentus]

that is mad ... let us know how the red butchers go on the table top .... witht he recent price drop in maulerfiends and LOS i would be tempter to purchase myself a few once i finally have built my bez squads 

[crazy_tuco]

It kills me to run berzerkers in something other than a multiple of 8, but that list looks great.  I may play around with the HQ choices, as I'll be limited by what I have available, but I am very intrigued by this.  

[MegaVolt87]

I don't understand the point of a 4th rhino if you have 30 zerks? You could bulk out the cultists with those points. 

[Khornestar]

Because the dark Apostle and exalted Champion need a ride. They can be in the ideal spot to pop buffs. On turn 1, the Apostle can buff something with -1 to hit, jump in his Rhino, and then next turn he can make up for not being able to use a prayer by popping the +1 attack banner within range of multiple units. Or, if the situation calls for it, he can be moved 9” using apoplectic frenzy. I think I’d stick to the Rhino, though.

 

I like units of 5 Berzerkers because I get as many power fists as possible. Strength 10 can kill anything, and the skull champion gets... 9 attacks if he gets to swing twice? That’s so good! The drawback is that if stacking buffs, the effects are limited to a 5-man unit. In many situations, that’s still enough to do plenty of damage. Just gotta use the fists and axes appropriately, along with strats/auras/etc.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Juggernut

[Sagentus]

certainly is a good plan ... that allows the a lot of versatility with the DA and i can see your point with the squads of 5 Bez, the extra damage from the PFs makes up for any draw back. 

 

I am eager to see what buffs the Khorne Daemons will get, would love for them to bring down the points value of a soul grinder, its such a cool model that barely gets used. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Sagentus

[Khornestar]

certainly is a good plan ... that allows the a lot of versatility with the DA and i can see your point with the squads of 5 Bez, the extra damage from the PFs makes up for any draw back. 

 

I am eager to see what buffs the Khorne Daemons will get, would love for them to bring down the points value of a soul grinder, its such a cool model that barely gets used. 

 

I hope so! As of now it's an untested list/plan. I'm not expecting much from the list, but it does seem very fun to me. Lots of infantry, ALL World Eaters, lots of CP, lots of berzerkers, lots of ~equally threatening and ~equally expensive units moving around the table rather quickly without witchcraft, versatile as far as close combat is concerned, using new stratagems, relics, and warlord traits... lots of fun.

[Khornestar]

Speaking of Red Butchers, I'm working on my unit of 10 now. Decided that I'm going with dual close combat weapons; none of them will be holding combi-bolters. They'll spit bullets on the tabletop, or something.

 

Here's the champ:

 

 

 

Very much took a cue from Gederas, loved the idea with the rune on top of the armor.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Juggernut

[Sagentus]

Looks good Jugger!!! eager to see how these come on

[Trevak Dal]

Maybe rig two Bolters under the chainfists?

[Marshal Loss]

They'll spit bullets on the tabletop, or something.

 

The single most Khornate sentence I have ever read in my life

Edited December 13, 2019 by Marshal Loss

[Khornestar]

Maybe rig two Bolters under the chainfists?

 

I'd consider it for a one-off, but for all 10 terminators I don't think I have the patience to do that much work. Each one is dual wielding melee weapons, and getting adornments such as chains and skulls and such.

[Aztek]

Yeah, using Blood Warriors + Mark III legs is a good way to make swole Berzerkers. It's what I did for mine:

 

Size comparison:

 

They look great, but as Sargentus said, the biggest issue is they're LUDICROUSLY expensive, as it's a minimum 110USD for 10 of them. And it doesn't even come with the necessary weapons either.

 

Hence why I only did three 8-strong squads. Any further Berzerkers will wait until the new kit comes out.

 

 

I'm oh so tempted to try this now for some reason. Where did you make the cuts on the Blood Warrior legs? Right above the boot?

[Sagentus]

The cuts are done just bellow the knee join

 

@jugger - what other cc weapon have you gone for? I have been bought the battleforce for xmas, so im tempted to go chainfist chain axe for fluff

 

Edit:

Just tried it on battlescribe and it doesnt allow dual cc weapon

Edited December 14, 2019 by Sagentus

[Khornestar]

The cuts are done just bellow the knee join

@jugger - what other cc weapon have you gone for? I have been bought the battleforce for xmas, so im tempted to go chainfist chain axe for fluff

Edit:

Just tried it on battlescribe and it doesnt allow dual cc weapon

I’m building them all holding melee weapons, regardless of guns and such. Not an actual loadout in terms of rules. Just to look cool.

[Khornestar]

Here's what I've got so far. The quality of these gifs isn't great, and when the files got converted by the app it cut the length in half, but anyway... here are all 10 of my Red Butchers in some state of progress:

 

Fist/Axe Terminator:

 

 

Fist/Claw Terminator:

 

 

Fist/Claw Terminator 2:

 

 

Sword/Fist Terminator:

 

 

Armless Terminator (2x Fists when the bits arrive):

 

 

Armless Terminator 2 (2x Fists when the bits arrive):

 

 

2x Fists Terminator:

 

 

Chainfist/Power Fist/Icon of Wrath Terminator:

 

 

Fist/Maul Terminator:

 

 

2x Chainfist Terminator Champion:

 

 

 

 

I wanted to create something unique with this unit in terms of going beyond the base kit. The new supplement has really inspired me to revisit my CSM, and naturally I started with World Eaters. The Red Butchers have to be chained up to restrain them between battles, or something like that. I wanted to represent those broken chains on the now unleashed terminators. I'm going to have to sculpt little details over some of the chains where they connect to the armor, but it shouldn't be too much. Still adding chains and details to the unit. Have an absurd bits collection, so I'm glad to once again put them to use.

 

The chains and the dual-wielded power weapons are inspired by the original 30k FW unit. Though these are technically armed with some variant of combi-bolter, I am thrilled to say nuts to that and represent 10 suits of walking tank to smash/crush/slash/rip/tear/kill/maim/burn.

 

I also wanted to depict these monsters as essentially walking battle shrines to Khorne. Trophies, spike racks, runes of the blood god; they leave no doubts as to their allegiance. To that end, I’m debating their paint scheme. Either classic World Eaters colors, or a solid brass scheme, making their armor more ornate and in my mind more directly linked with Khorne. This scheme would also contrast very well with splashing of blood for the blood god technical paint, as evidence of recent victims.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Juggernut

[Cheex]

As cool as those look, I'm concerned that those could be confusing for an opponent when the models have two different weapons. And I'm about as casual as you can get with this game.

 

Paired weapons would be a lot easier to understand - you could easily justify them by saying that's why they get to fight twice or something.

[Macbeefin]

Red Butchers looking fire Jug. I love the idea of broken chains, I did something similar with my contemptor and it looks pretty good imo. Are those Khorne head-pieces you gave them cut from blood warrior heads?

[El_Dicko]

Those are looking great!

[Khornestar]

As cool as those look, I'm concerned that those could be confusing for an opponent when the models have two different weapons. And I'm about as casual as you can get with this game.

 

Paired weapons would be a lot easier to understand - you could easily justify them by saying that's why they get to fight twice or something.

Nah, I would make it simple. To begin with, I have a printed army list for my opponent to reference, even in pickup games. Second, I arm the entire unit with the same weapons and remind my opponent multiple times what they’ve got. If there is confusion beyond that, I’m sure we could figure it out.