[HH1.0] Tactica Chainaxe: World Eaters

[Charlo]

Expensive, but my god he'd look bad ass.

[Ishagu]

Do any of you guys run Angron?

I'll be facing him in a game soon :-)

[AlphariusOmegon108]

I do, and damn he is a beast. Run him in 2500pts together with two paragorn blade peeators and Surlak. and 8 red Butchers with all axe and a spartan... This unit kills EVERYTHING. Angron is a beast, he is crazy strong, getting him there is the only thing that really bothers him

[Charlo]

Now that sounds like huge overkill! But Watxh out for a 3+FNP Angry Ron Ishagu, if he gets to your deployment zone :P

[Ishagu]

Angron will clash with Guilliman when we face off... will be interesting to see how the combat pans out.

 

I'll be facing WE in a 2.5k point game in the following month. Just need to get my butt in gear and paint a few more models first.

[TompiQ]

That's why Angron shouldn't go anywhere but in a Kharybdis together with Surlak if you're playing Crimson Path! He gets where he wants to be and becomes tanky enough to keep up with his own killyness.

 

I'm not sure Butchers are his optimal bodyguard though, as they leave him unable to sweep enemies. I'd rather retain that ability and then get a multi-charge in turn two to take out several units at once.

[Slips]

Just Take Tartaros Termies instead then. Not as killy as butchers but you get to sweep.

[Charlo]

Aye, I think once you've got Angron fighting something you'll seldom need more killy. Plus they're slightly better at taking hits due to not being hit on a 3+ by most normal mooks.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

As one of the cheaper Primarchs, I find he fits in much better than other Primarchs.

 

Plus the choppy nature of even our basic troop means he's not out of place in a "regular" unit, whereas as far as I can most other Primarchs are sort of wasted outside of being surrounded by VERY expensive Terminators in a Spartan or Kharybdis. So no expensive Primarch cost plus the bloated Terminator unit's cost. It only starts being worth it over 3k really, whereas Angyron can fit into 2.5k nicely imo.

 

Also nice to note, Angron is not bulky or very bulky. He fits in a Caestus That also pleases me, I can only really field Vulkan in a Spartan with Firedrakes (if I want CoF) so he becomes quitei inflexible.

Edited March 3, 2016 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Flint13]

I actually really like Angron in a unit of despoilers. 

 

They are pretty cheap ablative wounds and allow you to spread out your combat potential. Angron doesn't need any help with killing things. That's why I've never given him a unit of Butchers as a bodyguard. There's a reason he's always leaving them behind the fluff ^_^

 

However what he does need (or at least, what's far more useful) is ablative wounds since FW only saw fit  to grace Angron with five for some unfathomable reason. Well, and the 3+ armor. But honestly that doesn't bother me nearly as much as the LESS WOUNDS THAN CORAX.

 

*ahem*

 

Anywho, like was mentioned above, Angron + Butchers is absolute overkill for anything short of a Tyranid bio-titan (I know, I've tried it). Wouldn't it be so much a better idea to break them up so you have two units that do crazy damage instead of just a single unit that will obliterate whatever it hits, then have to derp around for a single turn until they can charge again? And that's the best case scenario.

 

Pretty much every other legion knows "OMG DON'T LET HIM NEAR THE CHILDREN!" (children being anything not Angron) when it comes to our Primarch. Don't do their job for them by playing crazy power death units that are perfect targets for sacrificial speed bumps. 

[Slips]

I'm just a big fan of Unnecessary Overkill :p

 

But the sensible route is often the best...

 

I'm Curious though, why you'd go for Despoilers/Tacs over Standard Tartaros Termies? They only have a 3+ Save and FNP at best vs a 2+/5++ w/ FNP from attached apothecaries/whatever.

 

At least with termies those ablative wounds will likely go the extra mile in taking a Super-bullet for Angron.

[TompiQ]

Actually God-Potato, Angron is Bulky. He's also not specified as wearing power armour, so can't ride in the Caestus.

 

I wholly agree with Flint, Angron plus despoilers are the way to go. Butchers don't gain snygging from being with Angron due to their built in hatred, and normal terminators suffer from not being awesome Butchers. :D

[God-Potato of Mankind]

 

At least with termies those ablative wounds will likely go the extra mile in taking a Super-bullet for Angron.

 

Because MOAR chainaxes means MOAR skulls.

 

Simple math.

[Flint13]

 

 

At least with termies those ablative wounds will likely go the extra mile in taking a Super-bullet for Angron.

 

Because MOAR chainaxes means MOAR skulls.

 

Simple math.

 

 

Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

 

Every World Eater is 4 attacks on the charge. Terminators have a higher quality attack, it might be argued, but I'd much rather have 40 chainaxe attacks from despoilers @ 150pts than 20 unwieldy power axe attacks from 5 terminators at a bare minimum cost of 175pts.

 

Factoring in Surlak to the equation just makes me favor despoilers in this equation even more. You can upgrade them to match power axe terminators in strength, and the Terminators are a lot worse to be loosing to Exhortations of Butchery than a 15pt despoiler.  

[Hesh Kadesh]

250pts of Tactical Marines = 80 attacks IF you hit. S4 AP-. 75% accuracy, 50% damage, 33% bypass saves = 12.5% or 10 dead.

250pts of Tartaros = 28 attacks same acc, wounding on 3's, wounding on 3's or 4's depending on choice or Power Weapon, no save. 10.5 wounds for swords/14 for axes at expense of striking last.
 

Edited March 3, 2016 by Flint13
Keeping it Cordial

[Nova_chron]

I'm going to try running Angron in a big despoiler squad when I get him should be a very fun game against my usual opponents tau or blood angels

[Flint13]

250pts of Tactical Marines = 80 attacks IF you hit. S4 AP-. 75% accuracy, 50% damage, 33% bypass saves = 12.5% or 10 dead.

 

250pts of Tartaros = 28 attacks same acc, wounding on 3's, wounding on 3's or 4's depending on choice or Power Weapon, no save. 10.5 wounds for swords/14 for axes at expense of striking last.

 

Not really.

 

150pts of despoiler marines = 40 attacks when I hit, S5AP4 from Gahlan Surlak's free upgrade

 

75% accuracy, 77% damage, 33% bypass saves = 7.12 power armored astartes dead from 10 charging World Eaters. And that's when you're only looking at legion on legion. Remember to factor in Str5 (which terminators can't get) and new and improved re-roll 1s to wound.

 

Which is completely a secondary bonus to their cheap inclusion as ablative wounds. No unit that accompanies Angron is going to match him for output. In fact, you're going to lose effectiveness even if they did, because you're concentrating too much in that one unit that can only really be in one place at any given time. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by Flint13
Keeping it Cordial

[God-Potato of Mankind]

250pts of Tactical Marines = 80 attacks IF you hit. S4 AP-. 75% accuracy, 50% damage, 33% bypass saves = 12.5% or 10 dead.

 

250pts of Tartaros = 28 attacks same acc, wounding on 3's, wounding on 3's or 4's depending on choice or Power Weapon, no save. 10.5 wounds for swords/14 for axes at expense of striking last.

 

 

Yeah but if you lose 1 terminator, how much output will be dimished?

 

If you focus on fewer attacks with greater quality, losing a source of attack hurts that much more.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Flint13

[Charlo]

Plus, WE Terminators don't feel right except for butchers...

 

Despoilers though... Oh boy!

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Actually God-Potato, Angron is Bulky. He's also not specified as wearing power armour, so can't ride in the Caestus.

 

I wholly agree with Flint, Angron plus despoilers are the way to go. Butchers don't gain snygging from being with Angron due to their built in hatred, and normal terminators suffer from not being awesome Butchers.

 

Hmm, my Battlescribe must be wrong, it doesn't list either.

 

TO THE RULEBOOKS! (in an hour when I finish work!)

Edited March 3, 2016 by Slipstreams
Removed Reference to Problematic Posts.

[Slips]

Ok.

 

Lets get things straight.

 

Whether or not a Post is Passive Aggressive, so long as it contains pertinent information to the discussion at hand I'm totally cool letting it slide.

 

But when you literally dont add anything to the conversation?

 

Dont bother posting and just use the report button if there's an issue.

 

And, in the same vein, dont mention the issue in-topic either. Just hit the report button on the offending posts and let the Admin/Mod team deal with it.

 

Keep it on topic, use the report button and don't add onto any problems by mentioning them or continuing them.

 

=][=

[TompiQ]

Passive aggressiveness has nothing to do in this thread.

 

...it's all about ACTIVE AGGRESSIVENESS!   

[Hesh Kadesh]

If we're talking Tactics, I'm still not sure why you aren't running him alone in a Dreadclaw. He's Fleet, has a 4++ and you don't want him able to blitz out the other side into a storm of Plasma or Melta or Medusa Blasts.

 

Sure, he can't Look Out Sir on a 2+, but he's likely to slam through all but the toughest enemy squad, without coming out the side, unless the enemy completely fluffs their rolls.

[Billy Butcher]

Expensive, but my god he'd look bad ass.

Yes, yes he will...

[AlphariusOmegon108]

That neck looks waaay to long. Tuck the helmet more in.

 

What would be the best place to put Khârn with his Cutter in? In despoilers? Or something else?