Slips Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Cataphractii isnt explicitly Slow And Purposeful anymore per the FAQ....soooo make of that what you will. Flint13 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 The way I read it is they have all the same limitations but without the SnP rule they are legal that's how my group is calling it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 They are NOT SnP. In any way. Â Take them and be merry. Flint13 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TompiQ Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Indeed. Until it is explicitly stated by Forge World in a FAQ, having Cataphractii armour does not in any way confer the SnP rule due to the rules changes in the latest FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 It was super explicitly stated in the current FW FAQ that Cataphractii armor doesn't have Slow and Purposeful.  They just can't overwatch or sweep or run ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Well, we don't know when the FAQ was written vs when certain sections of Book VI were written... and then there are things like "are drop pods Immobile??" So the intent of the S&P restrictions was probably to limit Cataphractii under some of the new Rites. To mind, there is nothing else in the Legions list that has S&P so what else would these Rites be trying to restrict? Something that doesn't exist yet?  Anyway it's not exactly game breaking and the intent is pretty fuzzy at best. I'm mostly just saying that I wouldn't be surprised if some day an FAQ shows up that does restrict Cataphractii in The Crimson Path (and several of the other Rites in Book VI). For now though... Dreadclaw Butchers? Dreadclaw Butchers.  Also I'm a little disappointed there are no crazy Mastodon lists yet. I guess this is partly due to the Mastodon rules being not quite as impressive as we all hoped, but... if you had to run a Mastodon in a 3000-3500 point game, how would you go about it? Marshal Loss 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Id fill it with kill :p  Use it as a double sized Spartan and fill it with 40 marines or 20 Red Butchers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemujinZero Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) On the Crimson Path + Cataphractii issue: Â It's not really a rules issue, since Cataphractii clearly don't have Slow and Purposeful any more. Â But many players, myself included, will recognise that Maru Skara and The Crimson Path were intended to disallow Cataphractii, and will follow the original intent. Â If you take advantage of this loophole and combine either of these RoWs with Cataphractii, you run the risk of at the very least getting complaints from your opponents, and eventually of getting your army banned in a future rules update. Â If your opponents are fine with it then go ahead, but I think it's no coincidence that you're all pointing to 3+ FNP Red Butchers as your motivation - I reckon that's exactly why they were restricted when the RoW was written (which, let's remember, was probably months before the FAQ came out). Â You can always run your Red Butchers and Gahlan Surlak deathstar under Beserker Assault. Â The rest of your army benefits from hatred, and your Red Butchers will get by with their 4+ FNP. Â The mathhammer on staple WE units in this setup is delicious. Â A standard 5 man Red Butchers squad with Surlak and Exhortation of Butchery kills 14 Cataphractii on the charge. Â 20 Inductii Despoilers with a PF Sergeant and an apothecary with Exhortation of Butchery will kill an entire 20 man tactical squad in a single round of combat outside their own deployment zone, or an entire 10 man Cataphractii squad. Â FNP bonuses are for smelly Death Guard - real WE players should be relying on their humble 12.5 point Inductii Despoilers with 5 S5 attacks on the charge each, hatred and rerolls on their 1s to wound. Â Oh and holding objectives is for losers too - really real WE players should modify all their despoilers and try to win without any scoring units by just killing everything in sight. Edited February 21, 2016 by TemujinZero Gorgoff, 2gud2bbad, Terminus and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) Remember, devourers are SaP so no crimson allowed, pick normal termies insteadNot any more. They have the same effects as S&P, but not actually the rule. Read the latest FAQ. Edit: I should've read before posting. Edited February 21, 2016 by Caillum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Â Remember, devourers are SaP so no crimson allowed, pick normal termies insteadNot any more. They have the same effects as S&P, but not actually the rule. Read the latest FAQ.Edit: I should've read before posting. Maybe. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Ignoring the fact that Cataphractii no longer have Slow and Purposeful and waving that around is like saying Quad Mortars got Shatter Shells. I've refrained from metaphorically teabagging everyone about that (it was hard, trust me! :D), but it's relevant to bring up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) FAQ is the latest release, and contains Errata.  No more Move and Fire Rapier Batteries, thank you very much. Edited February 21, 2016 by Hesh Kadesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Quad mortars do get shatter shells. You just have to pay for them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Quad mortars do get shatter shells. You just have to pay for them now. Which lends some credence to the belief that they were not intended for quad mortars at their base cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Â Quad mortars do get shatter shells. You just have to pay for them now.Which lends some credence to the belief that they were not intended for quad mortars at their base cost. Point is, its clarified now. Gorgoff 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Id fill it with kill  Use it as a double sized Spartan and fill it with 40 marines or 20 Red Butchers  The big question isn't what to fill the Mastodon with. The World Eaters have inexhaustible combinations of kill to fill transports with. No, the question is what else to run in the list to keep it fun and interesting...  FWIW I'm thinking the Mastodon itself would run 18 despoilers (AA&PF on sarge) + Khârn running Crimson Path & Gorechild + Surlak, and then a Cortus talon of 2 dreads (place-holder heavy flamers as equipment for now). It comes out to I think 1565 (ouch), leaving 1435 to do.. whatever with. Lots and lots of drop pods? Back it up with more armour? A healthy mix? It's hard to strike a good balance with the remainder when half the army is tied up in the Mastodon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I agree with the above points, I would have no problem with drop pods taken in a rite that restricts immobile choices, just like I would look askance at any player trying to run Cataphractii in a non-SnP rite. But it wouldn't be a huge deal for me to play against it. I would just lash them with mad smack-talk the entire game so they are never tempted to do it again. :D 1ncarnadine 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016  Id fill it with kill  Use it as a double sized Spartan and fill it with 40 marines or 20 Red Butchers  The big question isn't what to fill the Mastodon with. The World Eaters have inexhaustible combinations of kill to fill transports with. No, the question is what else to run in the list to keep it fun and interesting...  FWIW I'm thinking the Mastodon itself would run 18 despoilers (AA&PF on sarge) + Khârn running Crimson Path & Gorechild + Surlak, and then a Cortus talon of 2 dreads (place-holder heavy flamers as equipment for now). It comes out to I think 1565 (ouch), leaving 1435 to do.. whatever with. Lots and lots of drop pods? Back it up with more armour? A healthy mix? It's hard to strike a good balance with the remainder when half the army is tied up in the Mastodon.   I dunno man, the more I look at the Mastadon and how its essentially a double Spartan... the more I think people are going to knock it over just like they would two Spartans.  Every single death taxi build just looks like so much easily strand-able points sink to me now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 So... Â 1.) Kill 2.) Maim 3.) Burn 4.)??? 5.) Profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) Except that this Double Spartan is a Super-Heavy and have 2 Void Shields to boot  And while pretty minor, comes with Anti-Air and can Overwatch if peeps are embarked. Edited February 22, 2016 by Slipstreams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) I think I would prefer 2 Spartans for the points. Provides more flexibility bility, can take more troops and keeps the l.o.w free Edited February 22, 2016 by Fangbanger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016  I dunno man, the more I look at the Mastadon and how its essentially a double Spartan... the more I think people are going to knock it over just like they would two Spartans.  Every single death taxi build just looks like so much easily strand-able points sink to me now.   Yeah, and I definitely don't want to run double Spartan. It just doesn't excite me the way the idea of the Mastodon in sexy red and white does.  At least on top of being a death taxi it can perform as a vox relay and manipulate reserves, and at least it's a subpar AA platform. But when you've put so much into the Mastodon you may not even have many reserves to manipulate. And yeah, subpar AA platform is subpar. The rules are missing something. Like flare shields, or just a little more firepower or a few more hullpoints. Hmmm.  I might just settle on the long-term plan of maybe just having one as a centerpiece some day, and for the rare crazy apocalypse game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I have noticed that for whatever reason, FW seem to shy away from giving super heavies flare shields outside of the Malcador and the crazy thing on the Ordinatus.  I wonder why that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Well, actually, the Thunderhawk can take Flare Shield AND a Ramjet Diffraction Grid :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Mastodon was made for WE. Angron, some butchers, that new apothecary, some despoilers and a dread. Also, it looks like a train so... Â https://youtu.be/Gnj3F7-DcQY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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