Baluc Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I think it depends on the point size of the game to be fair. At 5K no way would I consider it fair to go second with an OA army, as the level of alpha strike could be off the hook. Personally I would have added a "Always goes first" clause to the RoW but I'm a mechanics guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Deciding amongst ourselves is the best way possible to play the game. I'm inclined to agree with your group, as GW/FW don't always make the best decisions regarding rules (according to the people whose money they need to survive). However, I wouldn't be angry at someone who wants to play by the RAW, either. My point was to say their POV isn't wrong, either. Flint13 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 its not really in the spirit of the game though is it really? So I feel if someone plays like that, they are generally going to be a bit of a dick and someone I would never want to face again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Man, i would be nervous as all hell running OA with like...one unit of non-DS'ing terminators starting on the board knowing that if they died the game is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 its not really in the spirit of the game though is it really? So I feel if someone plays like that, they are generally going to be a bit of a dick and someone I would never want to face again Well, it's all a matter of perspective, I guess. Avoiding players whom you're prone to disagree with is probably a good policy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) Just for the hell of it heres my idea of a 5K WE OA list +++ WE 5k OA (5000pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List (Age of Darkness) (5000pts) ++ + HQ (255pts) + Gahlan Surlak (110pts) Legion Centurion (145pts) [Artificer Armour, Power Fist, Refractor Field] ····Consul [Forge Lord] ····Techmarine/Forgelord Options [Cyber-familiar, Melta Bombs, Rad Grenades] + Troops (1250pts) + Legion Tactical Squad (230pts) [Augmented Inductii, 16x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Squad (250pts) [Augmented Inductii, 18x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Squad (250pts) [Augmented Inductii, 18x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Support Squad (260pts) [Legion Drop Pod, 9x Legion Space Marines, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade, Volkite Chargers] ····Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Support Squad (260pts) [Legion Drop Pod, 9x Legion Space Marines, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade, Volkite Chargers] ····Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist] + Elites (1940pts) + Apothecarion Detachment (130pts) ····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Power Sword] ····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Power Sword] Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (990pts) ····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod, Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, 2x Graviton Gun] ····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod, Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, 2x Graviton Gun] ····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod, Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, 2x Graviton Gun] The Red Butchers (410pts) [Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod, 4x Butcher Terminator, 4x Second Power Axe] ····The Devoured [2x Chainfist, Second Power Axe] The Red Butchers (410pts) [Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod, 4x Butcher Terminator, 4x Second Power Axe] ····The Devoured [2x Chainfist, Second Power Axe] + Fast Attack (450pts) + Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron (225pts) ····Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] ····Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] ····Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron (225pts) ····Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] ····Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] ····Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta] + Heavy Support (705pts) + Legion Kharybdis Assault Claw (235pts) Legion Kharybdis Assault Claw (235pts) Legion Kharybdis Assault Claw (235pts) + Legion + Legion Astartes [Traitor] ····XII: World Eaters [blood Madness] + Lord of War (400pts) + The Primarch Angron (400pts) ····Master of the Legion [Orbital Assault] Created with BattleScribe I mean, it could be worse buuuuuuuuut only ~11 pods with half of those in on T1, it aint that bad for another 5k army to absorb the alpha from. Edited July 29, 2016 by Slipstreams Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I thought they specifically changed it so that it wasn't the case that if you went second you lost? The text that was posted from the new red book in the rules forum actually indicates that the 'no units' check happens at the end of each player turn, so OA could be pretty dicey. I just ordered the new book so i haven't actually read the text in question yet. So they flip-flopped again? Book VI has it at end of game turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I thought they specifically changed it so that it wasn't the case that if you went second you lost? The text that was posted from the new red book in the rules forum actually indicates that the 'no units' check happens at the end of each player turn, so OA could be pretty dicey. I just ordered the new book so i haven't actually read the text in question yet. So they flip-flopped again? Book VI has it at end of game turn. Thats what the dude over in the rules thread said, but i haven't confirmed it myself, just ordered my new red book this morning...along with some chainaxes...and a land raider...and a rhino...and some other stuff...i think i have a problem... Gorgoff, Slips and Terminus 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 One of us! One of us! We all wants the precious! *snorts a line of resin* Gorgoff 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I had to stop myself from adding 2 sets of rampagers to the order to use as my inductii... Gorgoff 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I had to stop myself from adding 2 sets of rampagers to the order to use as my inductii... Tsk, tsk! Remember, we all have a few redundant organs we can part with! Gorgoff 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 If the rumors are true about plastic mkiii marines in the HH box then i want to wait to use them...though the rampagers call was strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 New book says if you have no models on the table, so yeah. Go second, lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I'm looking at some of the lists here, and something strikes me. To use OA and other Rites of War, don't you need a Master of the Legion? Like a Praetor or a Delegatus? And it seems some of the lists posted here are missing that one thing. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Ok so seperate subject but looking for what you guys think is a more fun 3000pt list out of the following: 1st list and one currently looking to run Angron (bezerker) Forgelord, rad nades etc.. Surlak 5 X butchers, chainfists - Spartan (fs, db,ac) (forge lord) Contemptor Cortus (2 X grav, c.fist, cc weapon) - dread pod 15 X inductii (p.fist, vexilla) 15 X despoilers (p.fist) 10 X despoilers (p.fist) Anvilus (10 man squad) Venator Spartan ( fs, db, ac. 15 man despoilers, surlak, Angron) Kharybdis (15 man sepoilers) Or thinking of this instead... Angron (bezerker) Preator (paragon, IH) Surlak 5 X butchers, chainfists - Spartan (fs, db,ac) (preator) 15 X inductii (p.fist, vexilla) 15 X despoilers (p.fist) 10 X despoilers (p.weapon) Anvilus (10 man squad) Levi (melta lance, drill, phosphex,a.c) - dread pod Spartan ( fs, db, ac. 15 man despoilers, surlak, Angron) Kharybdis (15 man sepoilers) I really hate the fact everyone takes prodded Levi's now, but I wonder if I'm missing a trick. It replaces the Cortus and improves the dreads survivability and power output at the expense of the venator The venator is the tank I love to hate. When it's on fire, it's fire but most of the time rolls pants. I'm thinking the Levi is probably the better list as it can do the job of the venator and Cortus combined, yet the venator list gives me an extra unit Thoughts? I'm looking at some of the lists here, and something strikes me. To use OA and other Rites of War, don't you need a Master of the Legion? Like a Praetor or a Delegatus? And it seems some of the lists posted here are missing that one thing. Am I missing something? Angron...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) I'm looking at some of the lists here, and something strikes me. To use OA and other Rites of War, don't you need a Master of the Legion? Like a Praetor or a Delegatus? And it seems some of the lists posted here are missing that one thing. Am I missing something? Angron is Master of the Legion, yo. Literally, too. As is Khârn. Edited July 29, 2016 by Slipstreams Flint13 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Must be in a FAQ then, because he isn't granted that rule in any of the books I have. Oh well. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Must be in a FAQ then, because he isn't granted that rule in any of the books I have. Oh well. Cheers! ALL primarchs, since betrayal, have had Master of the Legion. Look at the Composite 'Primarch' rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) Must be in a FAQ then, because he isn't granted that rule in any of the books I have. Oh well. Cheers! ALL primarchs, since betrayal, have had Master of the Legion. Look at the Composite 'Primarch' rule. Looking at Angron's entry in Betrayal, he's listed thusly: Primarch (Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Fear, Adamantium WIll, Feelt, Fearless, It Will Not Die). Turning my eye to Roboute Guiliman, Primarch suddenly adds Master of the Legion, Precision Shot and Precision Strike. EDIT: Found it in the FAQ. Page 254 – The Primarch Angron Add ‘Master of the Legion’ to the summary of the Primarch special rule (and see page 186 for the full description). Edited July 29, 2016 by Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) Ah, it was Angron's Page entry Specifically who had a Typo that he didn't have it in his Primarch rule even though in the rules summary for the USR on page 186 has Master of the Legion. Edited July 29, 2016 by Slipstreams Clarification because I derp. Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 New book says if you have no models on the table, so yeah. Go second, lose What page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Checked my own copy of the book: Page 113 under Victory Conditions. Terminus and Khornestar 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 It doesn't seem like many people are using a Praetor in their lists (I haven't looked at all the lists, in fairness I could have just been judging recent stuff I've seen). Is the praetor with his paragon blade of badassery + iron halo not worth it? Seems like the best at initiative AP2 we've got, short of Khârn and Angron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Unless they have some awesome force multipliers, the uber Praetor costs as much as most of another unit of Red Butchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 How about Master of the Legion without Khârn/Angron? Delegatus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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