++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[Prot]

  For what its worth I also know for a fact that GW has heard the community complaints about rubrics loud and clear. Lets hope someone from design hears it in time for Chaos 8th. The Facebook page was littered with complaints about rubrics, to the point where GW themselves actually responded to the complaints (there was a FLOOD of them. rightfully so)

 

 

Seriously? wow.  What was the response like?

 

Just to be clear I don't like complaining about units like this. Just it's so new, and there was this incredible potential to touch on some immensely dated material while we've watched so many great updates for armies around Chaos. It's just a jagged pill. I apologize for coming off negatively.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

  For what its worth I also know for a fact that GW has heard the community complaints about rubrics loud and clear. Lets hope someone from design hears it in time for Chaos 8th. The Facebook page was littered with complaints about rubrics, to the point where GW themselves actually responded to the complaints (there was a FLOOD of them. rightfully so)

 

 

Seriously? wow.  What was the response like?

 

Just to be clear I don't like complaining about units like this. Just it's so new, and there was this incredible potential to touch on some immensely dated material while we've watched so many great updates for armies around Chaos. It's just a jagged pill. I apologize for coming off negatively.

 

 

Believe me i feel you on it. the "new" units are fine, while the one that "should" be the primary portion of our army is still so.... considerably "mediocre", even at best they come across as "decent."  (I mean for Tzeentch's sake they could have fixed this with a third core choice that gives rubricae alone something) Its mind boggling.

 

As for the response; they themselves asked some players "what do you think they should cost? what should they do?" type responses.  It wasn't anything particularly telling, but they are listening at least and definitely saw that most of the community seems to agree. 

 

It was very big, as literally every other post was "rubrics are bad" in some form or another (all the usual issues we all have here were mentioned ad-nauseam), and they actually did reply several times so they definitely know that those gorgeous new models under-perform on the table. 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

 

 

  For what its worth I also know for a fact that GW has heard the community complaints about rubrics loud and clear. Lets hope someone from design hears it in time for Chaos 8th. The Facebook page was littered with complaints about rubrics, to the point where GW themselves actually responded to the complaints (there was a FLOOD of them. rightfully so)

 

 

Seriously? wow.  What was the response like?

 

Just to be clear I don't like complaining about units like this. Just it's so new, and there was this incredible potential to touch on some immensely dated material while we've watched so many great updates for armies around Chaos. It's just a jagged pill. I apologize for coming off negatively.

 

 

Believe me i feel you on it. the "new" units are fine, while the one that "should" be the primary portion of our army is still so.... considerably "mediocre", even at best they come across as "decent."  (I mean for Tzeentch's sake they could have fixed this with a third core choice that gives rubricae alone something) Its mind boggling.

 

As for the response; they themselves asked some players "what do you think they should cost? what should they do?" type responses.  It wasn't anything particularly telling, but they are listening at least and definitely saw that most of the community seems to agree. 

 

It was very big, as literally every other post was "rubrics are bad" in some form or another (all the usual issues we all have here were mentioned ad-nauseam), and they actually did reply several times so they definitely know that those gorgeous new models under-perform on the table. 

 

Tbf  even just allowing aspiring sorcerers to use lores other then Tzeentch would help, and maybe a 2-4 melta bomb reduction in the base squad price and you'd be looking at a unit that would fair much better.

and I'd love a rubric only formation, even if it was only a copy and paste of the Terminator one (maybe swap fear for shred/loss of slow and purpeslless) with maybe a bonus to the aspiring sorcerer casting.

[Prot]

I personally fear that the old rumour that was floating out there that basically said GW weren't redoing any codex might be true. I've noted since that rumour GW haven't redone a single codex. This would leave Chaos the unchanged, dated codex going forward.

 

The thing for me is I've always loved the background and tragedy of Thousand Sons and World Eaters (believe it or not I think their tragedies are quite similar). But 1k sons have been largely unplayable in my meta. I was going to skip it.... but the models... the story... it all sucked me in. I really have to hope there will be a redo on Tzeentch powers, and how we roll on them. As well as fixing Rubrics.

 

I'm well into Thousand Sons now. So there's no turning back.... I've basically blown through the Emperors portal at this point and thoroughly ticked him off so to speak! Plus someone has to play the bad guy around here!

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

  For what its worth I also know for a fact that GW has heard the community complaints about rubrics loud and clear. Lets hope someone from design hears it in time for Chaos 8th. The Facebook page was littered with complaints about rubrics, to the point where GW themselves actually responded to the complaints (there was a FLOOD of them. rightfully so)

 

 

Seriously? wow.  What was the response like?

 

Just to be clear I don't like complaining about units like this. Just it's so new, and there was this incredible potential to touch on some immensely dated material while we've watched so many great updates for armies around Chaos. It's just a jagged pill. I apologize for coming off negatively.

 

 

Believe me i feel you on it. the "new" units are fine, while the one that "should" be the primary portion of our army is still so.... considerably "mediocre", even at best they come across as "decent."  (I mean for Tzeentch's sake they could have fixed this with a third core choice that gives rubricae alone something) Its mind boggling.

 

As for the response; they themselves asked some players "what do you think they should cost? what should they do?" type responses.  It wasn't anything particularly telling, but they are listening at least and definitely saw that most of the community seems to agree. 

 

It was very big, as literally every other post was "rubrics are bad" in some form or another (all the usual issues we all have here were mentioned ad-nauseam), and they actually did reply several times so they definitely know that those gorgeous new models under-perform on the table. 

 

 

I personally fear that the old rumour that was floating out there that basically said GW weren't redoing any codex might be true. I've noted since that rumour GW haven't redone a single codex. This would leave Chaos the unchanged, dated codex going forward.

 

The thing for me is I've always loved the background and tragedy of Thousand Sons and World Eaters (believe it or not I think their tragedies are quite similar). But 1k sons have been largely unplayable in my meta. I was going to skip it.... but the models... the story... it all sucked me in. I really have to hope there will be a redo on Tzeentch powers, and how we roll on them. As well as fixing Rubrics.

 

I'm well into Thousand Sons now. So there's no turning back.... I've basically blown through the Emperors portal at this point and thoroughly ticked him off so to speak! Plus someone has to play the bad guy around here!

Since the Aspiring Sorcerer is effectively 8 points more expensive than his ML2, two wound, WS5, terminator-armored counterpart in the Scarab Occult squad, he either needs a buff to his stats (2nd Wound, 2nd ML, and ability to use 11 Disciplines, maybe) or a serious cost reduction.

[Panzer]

I personally fear that the old rumour that was floating out there that basically said GW weren't redoing any codex might be true. I've noted since that rumour GW haven't redone a single codex. This would leave Chaos the unchanged, dated codex going forward.

 

At this point there is basically no doubt it's true.

GW also said in their live stream that the Codices will be different in 8th Edition so it makes sense for them not to put in the work to re-do old Codices and only bring out small-ish Codices for 'new' factions like Genestealer, Deathwatch etc. (they obviously can't let us wait for a year before we get anything so this'll have to do).

[Leonite]

 

 

 

HAIL BROTHERS!

 

Admittedly, I mostly represent myself as Word Bearers... but given the release of the new army and the fact I already had a foot mounted Ahriman and Rubricae, I decided to take on full Tzeentch... and given that I WAS planning on going Horus Heresy Tzeentch, I actually have parts enought o make 6 Exalted Sorcerers from that one kit.

 

My question to you is thusly: How do you arm your Rubrics and Scarabs? I got two boxes of Scarabs and a new Rubricae over Xmas, so that means I have 10 Scarabs, 17 Rubricae total, and 2 Rubricae Sorcerers. HQ wise I'm sorted, I have a Pre-Heresy conversion ready for an exalted Sorc (planned to be complete in the same colour scheme), Ahriman (twice) and as I said, 6 potential more Sorcerers. As well as a Hellbrute, two Predators, two Rhinos and some sizable levels of allies from the other three Chaos Codexes and two of the three suppliments. I'm just curious about the Bread and butter of our forces.

 

rubrics I tend to ignore flamers sadly. I own 40 rubrics, and out of the 40 only 6 have flamers, let me vary in some games. 

 

Most are just bolters, soul reaper per ten, and the aspiring. 

 

Scarab Occult i tend to go with reaper and hellfyre in a 5 man unit. Generally a good idea. 

 

Scarab Occult are generally better then Rubricae on a 1-1 basis, both for shooting AND casting. (as well as general survive ability) 

 

What about Exalted Sorcerers? Like, do you take the Rubrics in units of 9 for any poor footsloggers? I ask because... well, I have the one unit of 9 from the OLD kit.

 

 

foot slogging rubrics either NEED a rhino, or something like cultists/tzaangors to absorb a charge. basic rubrics really need a Rhino. Bolters need to be around 12 inchs away. Ahriman, Rhino, or Astral Grimoire are good ideas. The Astral Grimoire really makes one unit shine as a single unit can jump, pepper a unit, then charge to finish it off (dependeing on target) 

 

Heck; get a box of new rubrics, make it a 19 man unit (find an extra figure, make it 20, 2 soul reapers and a melta bomb) put a sorcerer nearby and astral grimoire them to make them jump 12 inchs, and double tap a unit to death. That + divination or the War Cabals guidance will cripple an opposing squad, and the stuff that would "normally" take care of a huge marine unit (cannons, low ap blasts, plasma, grav) does very little to Rubricae..... Granted that is a 550 point unit ;-) 

 

I Love exalted sorcerers. 1 "usually" makes its way into my lists, sometimes 2! 

 

I ran Ahrimans Exiles with 4 exalteds and Ahriman. its horrific on the table (as in good) 

 

Very scary though thats most of a 2000 point list ;-) 

 

To be honest, couldn't do that... my old Rubrics would need to be rebased, and it'd be an 18 man unit as I'll likely build one of them into a Sorcerer. Still, allows for flexability in deploying them. Fortunately, I'm covered in regards for Rhinos, one existing, 1 unbuilt. 

 

As for Exalteds, do you ever deploy any on foot, outside of the obvious Astral Grimiore option?

 

I'm just thinking sort of like...

 

Astral Grimiore Exalted (With Rubrics OR with Scarab Occult)

 

Secondary Exalted Footcerer (Possibly allowing one Thousand Son unit to Overwatch, maybe with the 9 man in a rhino?)

 

Tertiary Exalted (On a Disk)

 

Possibly a Fourth (On a... well, a Jetbike. Yeah, gave him the same base size as the old disks so that's a bit... annoying now. Counts as a Disk) if I can spare the points

 

5-10 Scarab Occult

 

9 Rubrics + 1 Sorcerer in Rhino

 

8 Rubrics + 1 Sorcerer + Secondary or Primary

 

With obviously room to take out Sorcerers as needed for Ahriman, Heldrakes, Defiliers and the like.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I personally fear that the old rumour that was floating out there that basically said GW weren't redoing any codex might be true. I've noted since that rumour GW haven't redone a single codex. This would leave Chaos the unchanged, dated codex going forward.

 

The thing for me is I've always loved the background and tragedy of Thousand Sons and World Eaters (believe it or not I think their tragedies are quite similar). But 1k sons have been largely unplayable in my meta. I was going to skip it.... but the models... the story... it all sucked me in. I really have to hope there will be a redo on Tzeentch powers, and how we roll on them. As well as fixing Rubrics.

 

I'm well into Thousand Sons now. So there's no turning back.... I've basically blown through the Emperors portal at this point and thoroughly ticked him off so to speak! Plus someone has to play the bad guy around here!

 

I think tzaangors and Scarab occult would do fine in most metas, but you may just have to skip Rubricae.  

 

I really hope that GW does something with the base chaos dex in 8th. Its obvious someones listening, and just by reading the traitor legion rules i see lots of "this is designed for future releases" penned in between the margins for that book. That book just screams "this will be used in 8th in conjunction with new chaos book" or whatever happens. 

[hivey]

A scarab termies cant shoot the missiles and bolter at the same time, can it?

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Had two tiny games today vs EC. 750 points. Man it felt like rubrics could take a licking and keep going. They felt like little engines that could out there. Aspiring sorcerors are squishy...but i like the feel if a min squad with soulreaper canon with an ML3 sorceror in it.

Got to try our managing the psychic phase. Its really hit and miss. I need to think up some kind of quick switch in strategy based on the powers rolled.

 

Overall, i like my rubrics. Sure this army will have problems but they have some decent survivability and AP3 bolters are nothing to scoff at.

 

Now...to bring more firepower than my opponents to the table...muahahaha

[totgeboren]

...but i like the feel if a min squad with soulreaper canon with an ML3 sorceror in it.

This was my first go-to setup for Rubrics, just a min-sized unit with soulreaper cannon.

However, to include a cannon you need to be at least 10-man strong, so a 5-man with cannon is breaking the rules sadly.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Had two tiny games today vs EC. 750 points. Man it felt like rubrics could take a licking and keep going. They felt like little engines that could out there. Aspiring sorcerors are squishy...but i like the feel if a min squad with soulreaper canon with an ML3 sorceror in it.

Got to try our managing the psychic phase. Its really hit and miss. I need to think up some kind of quick switch in strategy based on the powers rolled.

 

Overall, i like my rubrics. Sure this army will have problems but they have some decent survivability and AP3 bolters are nothing to scoff at.

 

Now...to bring more firepower than my opponents to the table...muahahaha

 

See thats the thing about Rubricae. (And 1k sons in general) Such an odd Dichotomy you usually don't see in 40k. making them a very interesting unit. 

 

You bring.....nothing but basic orks, basic guard with flamers/nade launchers, or basic necron weaponry., dark eldar kabalites..... we may cry a bit...manly dusty tears. 

 

You bring tons of Plasma, Battle cannons, high damage low output AP weaponry, and low AP blasts? we laugh at the futility of the opponent and his fancy-shmancy weapons ;-)

 

It makes for a very strange dynamic compared to death guard. They are the exact opposite (rather fittingly) 

 

Laughing at small arms fire, but being terrifed of Instant death and High damage / Low AP weaponry. 

 

----

 

Side note; Wrote some CAD and CABAL lists using 20-40 rubrics in a 1850-2k game. I havent played them yet, but they look like interesting lists. Not terribly competitive, but look really cool with all these new goregous models. 

[Leonite]

To be fair, I used Rubrics in my main army... Rubrics outlasted any other unit I had aside from maybe my Nurgle Biker Sorcerer, assuming he didn't kill himself. So I like having Rubrics in my army.

[Dusktiger]

A scarab termies cant shoot the missiles and bolter at the same time, can it?

being terminators, they should; otherwise thousands of space marine players have been playing their Cyclone missile launchers wrong for years.

 

[Excessus]

CMLs have a special rule permitting it.

 

...I think...

[Panzer]

 

A scarab termies cant shoot the missiles and bolter at the same time, can it?

being terminators, they should; otherwise thousands of space marine players have been playing their Cyclone missile launchers wrong for years.

 

 

Nothing a regular Terminator has allows to shoot more than one weapon per model.

I also know nobody who does that so it'd be a stretch to say "thousands of space marine players have been playing it wrong for years".

Dunno how it is with TSons Scarab ones tho.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

 

...but i like the feel if a min squad with soulreaper canon with an ML3 sorceror in it.

This was my first go-to setup for Rubrics, just a min-sized unit with soulreaper cannon.

However, to include a cannon you need to be at least 10-man strong, so a 5-man with cannon is breaking the rules sadly.

Hey tot! By min squad i meant 10 man. No rules breaking here ;)

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

You bring.....nothing but basic orks, basic guard with flamers/nade launchers, or basic necron weaponry., dark eldar kabalites..... we may cry a bit...manly dusty tears.

 

So what is tzeentch's plans to counter this? As I'm facing Tau and Eldarkin lists very often and I want to plan for them as a progressively get higher in point levels.

 

Side note; Wrote some CAD and CABAL lists using 20-40 rubrics in a 1850-2k game. I havent played them yet, but they look like interesting lists. Not terribly competitive, but look really cool with all these new goregous models.

I want to see those as I might consider fielding 20-30 in my lists as full 10 man squads.

[Prot]

Just finished a game where I forced myself to take 3 trim squads of Rubrics. I'd really stay very far away from them in any mildly competitive environment given the choice. I'd only ever use them to fulfill a formation requirement. Even the Sorcs are horrible units. I've come to the conclusion if you are playing a Thousand Sons detachment, I would have given all sorcs a free Tzeentch primaris as a reward but allowed all Thousand Sons sorcs to roll any/all dice on any table they want. That doesn't make Rubrics decent but it starts to address the horrendous costing issues of all the forced, and nearly useless sorcs. That marked/Psychic rolling rule really needs to be thrown out the window.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Just finished a game where I forced myself to take 3 trim squads of Rubrics. I'd really stay very far away from them in any mildly competitive environment given the choice. I'd only ever use them to fulfill a formation requirement. Even the Sorcs are horrible units. I've come to the conclusion if you are playing a Thousand Sons detachment, I would have given all sorcs a free Tzeentch primaris as a reward but allowed all Thousand Sons sorcs to roll any/all dice on any table they want. That doesn't make Rubrics decent but it starts to address the horrendous costing issues of all the forced, and nearly useless sorcs. That marked/Psychic rolling rule really needs to be thrown out the window.

My feeling with them is they need to be at least 10 men. Maybe there is another sweet spot under that but i havent found it yet and it isnt 5.

[Prot]

That maybe so. In this case I was trying to get the bonus from favoured of Tzeentch. The Rubrics literally did nothing. I had to keep them bare bones though.

[Sonoftherubric21]

That maybe so. In this case I was trying to get the bonus from favoured of Tzeentch. The Rubrics literally did nothing. I had to keep them bare bones though.

 

For the rubrics to do anything of use they need 10 man with reaper. so you are looking at 290 or 295 with Melta bomb. (why couldnt it be 5 man reapers?!?! WHY?!!?) 

 

5 mans are objective holders and warp charge creation. thats literally it. (and plinking viable weak targets, but that for 150 is rough when you can take 20 tzaangors with bray for that same price and they WILL do something)  They are support for a Max War Cabal in 1850/2000 (Though in 2000 I have a fun list that ive had some success with that is all rubrics/scarabs) 

 

 

 

You bring.....nothing but basic orks, basic guard with flamers/nade launchers, or basic necron weaponry., dark eldar kabalites..... we may cry a bit...manly dusty tears.

So what is tzeentch's plans to counter this? As I'm facing Tau and Eldarkin lists very often and I want to plan for them as a progressively get higher in point levels.

 

Side note; Wrote some CAD and CABAL lists using 20-40 rubrics in a 1850-2k game. I havent played them yet, but they look like interesting lists. Not terribly competitive, but look really cool with all these new goregous models.

I want to see those as I might consider fielding 20-30 in my lists as full 10 man squads.

 

 

Tzeentchs plan to counter that? use rubrics, and flood the rest of the board with Tzaangors and Horrors in support of the Rubricae. 

 

This forces your opponent to waste high power shooting on rubrics...which they dont care about....or on Tzaangors and horrors....which...also dont care because you are wasting expensive special weapons on TZAANGORS AND HORRORS :p 

 

As for tau; I honestly don't know because I am not super familiar with Tau builds now, but i know generally we blow away crisis suits pretty quickly. id imagine any suit with a 3+ save we laugh at.  I know if hes taking tons of suits and tons of fire warriors you can literally just take 50+ tzaangors in formation with a disc sorcerer and spawn, fly across the board, hes got 1 good turn of shooting and then most of his army is locked down in Melee. God(s) help him if he got closer. 

 

The problem is riptides and stormsurges. 

 

Riptides you need to force, or shoot to death with Forgefiends or assault with maulerfiends. (though at that point having points to flood the board to soak up weak shooting AND have points to field all the walkers/engines/tanks we need is....troublesome)

 

The nice thing about having level 2/3 sorcerers is that when we roll on lores we do so AFTER seeing what our opponent has. So you can certainly make use of that. I need to read whats good on the new lores for what would work against Monsterous Creatures, I know Shriek is the old standard, shriek a surge or a riptide to death. Easy enough with Ahriman, the Exiles, or the War Coven.  

[Aasfresser]

Lets say I'd go CAD and want to field 5 terminators with MoT. I tend to play rather shooty and defensive lists with my Thousand Sons, at least this was pre-WoM.

So I don't care of they are just shooty or killy or both.

So what would be an ok set up? Focus on power weapon? Fists? Claws? A mix? Combi-plas or melta? Heavy weapon yay or nay? Last time I run terminators was in fith as 3-man termicide. All my games since than wäre without terminators. When I'm home I'll building something but how would you bild such a unit?

 

I'm thinking of a CC oriented unit as Escort for a sorcs in TDA and Astral grimoire.

[Charlo]

Because of the 4++ easily turned into a 3++ by casting force or something on the Sorc, you aren't punished for taking unwieldy weapons at all. Fists/ Axes are your friend - maybe one Maul to smash some goons.

 

Combi-Plas is the dream weapon IMO for this sort of unit - Autocannon has some decent synergy here with the same S7 for shooting AV.

 

If you add another Sorc with the Seers Bane relic (Staff that wounds on Ld) then you start to have a nasty combat unit that - with good psychic support can mulch things.

[Prot]

That's a very good point. I keep thinking like have normal CSM which isn't the case here. I am struggling to find where these fists or axes would come from though.

 

I have to admit after my last game with max Cabal for the favoured of Tzeentch rule I'm trying to figure out a way to make it more competitive at 1850. That level of survival on Scarab Occult is just darn fun.