++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

5 Scarabs with Staff, TL Inferno Bolter x5 and Helfyre Missiles are 249.

 

10 Rubric Marines with Staff, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Inferno Bolters, 2 Warpflamers and a Soulreaper are 275.

 

Fair cost, I'd say. 

 

Rhino x2 are in my list to help the 2 units of Rubric Marines along.

 

 

I tend to agree, the only thing I question is the warp flamers on some units.  Its debatable being they are high cost, but the prices feel right for Rubrics and Scarabs. 

 

unique legion troops with good bonuses. 

[Archaeinox]

Looking at orks and what they can do with units of 30 is making my dust shake in my boots

 

Warpflamers wont help

[Sonoftherubric21]

I can fit 40 rubrics into 972 points.....Leaving over 1000 more for Sorcerers, Ahriman, maybe a couple tanks and some AT firepower.....

Im liking this ;-)   Bare in mind in 8th the same load out would cost me 1180, for identical gear with worse utility. 

 

This of course is perhaps a hair over the top for a truly competitive list, but ill gladly give it a shot. 

[Skerr]

Just getting caught up and trying to soak it all in! Great stuff guys!

[Archaeinox]

I am over the moon happy with how they did Ahriman. Totally rad

[Sonoftherubric21]

I mean the only issue I personally have is a lack of spells; at a certain point we have nothing to do beyond spam smite. 

but im sure that will be remedied in the future (death guard have their own, we will get ours soon enough) im just happy our units work and are reasonable costs. 

[Prot]

Looking at orks and what they can do with units of 30 is making my dust shake in my boots

 

Warpflamers wont help

 

I tried telling you guys. 

 

Orks and Nids will be a real issue if we drown ourselves in toys.

 

I'm very happy about the Scarabs though. I'm not sold on the Rubrics right now. I still feel like on the surface they are over priced a bit.

[Archaeinox]

I'm sitting here with 246pts left until I can make a 2000. 

 

Forgefiend?

[Skerr]

I am a bit down about generic powers though I expect an overhaul when a dex comes out and I hope it's not long but will likely be over a year.

 

I am thrilled at our over all buffs and costs though! Specialty weapons for all armies are high so not surprised about flamer costs. SOT flamer looked crazy expensive to though again I saw some crazy expensive weapon costs for primarus.

 

If the Icon pans out then I am thrilled. I bought extras and have 3 for 3 termie squads and some decor for tanks,

 

It's fitting irony that the two spells I really wanted us to have (variations of Treason and Devolution) went to the Tzeentch demons. Wish our psychers had access to that list.

 

I will also miss run and charge with tzaangors but happy overall with them.

 

I can understand disc is now calvary if it has a demon subtype. It is now under direct influence of the the rider (like any mount) rather than direct control (like most other machines). The disc is a living being now and if it offers that keyword to the rider then t5 might be a good tradeoff.

 

I also am super happy with leadership buffs to nearby units.

 

The generic spells are not bad at all...

[Sonoftherubric21]

Overall i feel close to the same Skerr, I am thrilled for the most part. 

What we lost in psychic ability we make up for in a FUNCTIONING ARMY. 

If may take a bit for our book, but id imagine first 6 months honestly, given we are one of the showcased "factions" in the chaos section of the 40k website. next to DG who are getting a book shortly after release. 

And the thing about T5 is that honestly its not as important this edition.  T4 vs T5 main benefit is obviously being T5 against small arms fire, against bigger guns your looking at a 3+ to wound barring str 10+ weaponry, and no Instant-death anymore so heya! not a bad trade.  Exalteds seem to cost 135 with a stave on a disc. Not awful. 

 

Ahriman being 166 on Disc, 131 on foot. The Disc I still see as being "almost" mandatory. given the negatives of withdrawing from combat. 

[Archaeinox]

Yeah but congratulations you can move 12" to get closer to spam your Smite. 

 

Also, if Ahriman and Exalted take a Disc, it doesn't look like they benefit from Lord of the Thousand Sons for re-rolls. Am I wrong there?

 

Would rather run them on foot and save the 34/35pts and take more support elements.

 

Related to moving faster, can we advance and then do Psychic?

[Sonoftherubric21]

Yeah but congratulations you can move 12" to get closer to spam your Smite. 

 

Also, if Ahriman and Exalted take a Disc, it doesn't look like they benefit from Lord of the Thousand Sons for re-rolls. Am I wrong there?

 

Would rather run them on foot and save the 34/35pts and take more support elements.

 

Related to moving faster, can we advance and then do Psychic?

 

THAT is a great question. 

 

Advance + psychic doesnt say no via the rules. 

 

and the re-rolls thing is also a great question; do models benefit form their own command traits? 

[Raven1]

I'm sitting here with 246pts left until I can make a 2000.

 

Forgefiend?

Warptalons/raptors combined with a sorcerer for that warptime move and overwatchless charge?

[Prot]

 

So yea... back to Scarab Occult for real games, dust bunnies for funzies. There has to be something I'm not understanding here.

 

Prot what the heck are you talking about? Rubricae are the best they have ever been by a HUGE overwhelming margin. they are a tourney-worthy unit man. do agree that Flnd if it goes off once a game it probably paid itself back.

 

I'm not saying the Rubrics are horrible. I try not to judge things horrible or awesome until I use them.

 

But on the surface, since you are asking, this is my understanding.

 

Rubrics 275

Scarabs 250

 

Rubrics need a rhino very likely. Scarabs can be strategically placed anywhere 9" away from the opponent. So add a rhino or two in that Rubric cost.

 

Rubrics with flamers in a rhino would have made sense. Realistically it doesn't seem feasible at 15 points a flamer. (Unless we had Drop pods)

 

Rubric Sorc gets one wound, one power. One failed perils.

Scarab Sorc has (I'm assuming) 2 wounds, two powers, possibly 2 perils in him

 

Rubrics are almost exclusively built for mid range Bolter fire

Scarabs are very similar with a very strong option which I think lacked in our lists and might be even more sorely missed in 8th- anti vehicle missiles at S8 D2. (It appears so far we have no killer beams, or spammable Heretech)

 

Rubrics have a 2 plus IF you're not hit with a D2 or better weapon

Scarabs always start with a 2 plus regardless of of damage value

 

Rubrics will be hard pressed to survive or deal any significant damage in CC

Scarabs will actually make a lot of CC armies second guess their approach.

 

That's off the top of my head. Perhaps I've misunderstood some point values, or rules.

[Archaeinox]

Just remember that there are people in this world who do not consider the psyker a "friendly character" for the purposes of the Boon of Mutation psychic power.

 

Those people will say that you can't benefit from aoe effects benefiting "friendly units of X"

 

I don't play those people.

[Zodd1888]

 

 

Yeah but congratulations you can move 12" to get closer to spam your Smite.

 

Also, if Ahriman and Exalted take a Disc, it doesn't look like they benefit from Lord of the Thousand Sons for re-rolls. Am I wrong there?

 

Would rather run them on foot and save the 34/35pts and take more support elements.

 

Related to moving faster, can we advance and then do Psychic?

THAT is a great question.

 

Advance + psychic doesnt say no via the rules.

 

and the re-rolls thing is also a great question; do models benefit form their own command traits?

The rule states they gain the following and doesn't reference the loss of any keywords. I'd say it's fair game given that GW has used other terms such as replace or remove when referencing keywords previously.

[Skerr]

I really liked turning enemies into chaos spawn... sniff

[Archaeinox]

 

The rule states they gain the following and doesn't reference the loss of any keywords. I'd say it's fair game given that GW has used other terms such as replace or remove when referencing keywords previously.

 

Disc says they lose Infantry, Lord of Thousand Sons needs "infantry"

 

Am I understanding your point?

[Skerr]

 

And the thing about T5 is that honestly its not as important this edition. T4 vs T5 main benefit is obviously being T5 against small arms fire, against bigger guns your looking at a 3+ to wound barring str 10+ weaponry, and no Instant-death anymore so heya! not a bad trade. Exalteds seem to cost 135 with a stave on a disc. Not awful.

 

Ahriman being 166 on Disc, 131 on foot. The Disc I still see as being "almost" mandatory. given the negatives of withdrawing from combat.

Good points sir. Though I bet we lose the great move in later phases so we might lose our drive by mind bullets.

[Prot]

I'm sitting here with 246pts left until I can make a 2000.

 

Forgefiend?

I've always loved the model. Frankly I have no idea how they work in 8th but I'd love to keep using mine. On the other hand the ol' las pred (don't know if you included that in your list yet) is nearly mandatory.

 

I'm actually wondering if the Heldrak will see more action.

 

The thing I don't like about Ahriman on disk is as I mentioned earlier is the Daemon part. It's a bit of a mis-label to me, and it will give Grey Knights advantages against him. And you will have to be wary of your use against GK as they have pinpoint Gate in 8th and will always try to Isolate him.

 

But I actually disagree with one thing Son is saying, I think T5 has real value for characters which is missing from the disk.

 

That being said I think for starters I will keep him on a disk just because leaving close combat and still dealing Psychic damage. Also these powers seem short range and having him speed off around the table behind a wall of Rubrics or Tzaangors might be an option.

 

I personally still want to tempt the effectiveness of Magnus plus a wall of Rubrics and Scarabs to start. I want to play so the survivability aspect as far as I can.

 

I don't really know what Ahriman does yet, but I foresee in more competitive games that Magnus would get swapped for Ahriman and Tzaangors. But I'm trying to keep options open and games fun.

 

Overall I'm liking almost every aspect of the Thousand Sons better. I always felt sheepish flattening some armies like Orks with one phase of the game.

 

It feels like more models, less characters, more diversity will be a very fun but valid way to play them!

[Raven1]

Rubrics 275

Scarabs 250

Could you specifiy model counts and equipment?

 

Rubrics need a rhino very likely. Scarabs can be strategically placed anywhere 9" away from the opponent. So add a rhino or two in that Rubric cost.

To run around and capture objectives, then yes which annoyingly raises their point cost but points across the board are being adjusted and I think games will have to be played fully in 8th to see what we need and don't as far as transports.

 

Rubrics with flamers in a rhino would have made sense. Realistically it doesn't seem feasible at 15 points a flamer. (Unless we had Drop pods)

Don't add flamers to those units? From what I understand a charge from >8.0" will be out of flamer range of warpflamers so it may not be an auto include. FW Chaos Index to the rescue?

 

Rubric Sorc gets one wound, one power. One failed perils.

Scarab Sorc has (I'm assuming) 2 wounds, two powers, possibly 2 perils in him

It's the nerfhammer plus it's what 18" so if you are likely to cast smite from line units they close to being in CC how many times are you planning on casting smite from on Aspiring champipn. You may not get more than one chance.

 

Rubrics are almost exclusively built for mid range Bolter fire

Scarabs are very similar with a very strong option which I think lacked in our lists and might be even more sorely missed in 8th- anti vehicle missiles at S8 D2. (It appears so far we have no killer beams, or spammable Heretech)

Havoc, Obliterators, Land Raider, Predators, Forgefiends or should I just say our Heavy Support section. As much as I like TS fluff selection we can't fight with one hand behind our back.

 

Rubrics have a 2 plus IF you're not hit with a D2 or better weapon

Scarabs always start with a 2 plus regardless of of damage value

That's a benefit not many other people have which stacks with cover, and invunerable saves. They are sturdy against small arms fire as they should. If you dont like it or think it's bad...thats just like your opinion man.

 

Rubrics will be hard pressed to survive or deal any significant damage in CC

Scarabs will actually make a lot of CC armies second guess their approach.

Yes. This is my #sorrynotsorry moment. Rubrics dont belong in CC. SO Termis most likely do.

 

Not trying to be antagonistic if I have come off that way.

[Archaeinox]

If we disengage from combat we can't use psychic powers, right?

[Prot]

 

Rubrics 275

Scarabs 250

Could you specifiy model counts and equipment?

Rubrics need a rhino very likely. Scarabs can be strategically placed anywhere 9" away from the opponent. So add a rhino or two in that Rubric cost.

To run around and capture objectives, then yes which annoyingly raises their point cost but points across the board are being adjusted and I think games will have to be played fully in 8th to see what we need and don't as far as transports.

Rubrics with flamers in a rhino would have made sense. Realistically it doesn't seem feasible at 15 points a flamer. (Unless we had Drop pods)

Don't add flamers to those units? From what I understand a charge from >8.0" will be out of flamer range of warpflamers so it may not be an auto include. FW Chaos Index to the rescue?

Rubric Sorc gets one wound, one power. One failed perils.

Scarab Sorc has (I'm assuming) 2 wounds, two powers, possibly 2 perils in him

It's the nerfhammer plus it's what 18" so if you are likely to cast smite from line units they close to being in CC how many times are you planning on casting smite from on Aspiring champipn. You may not get more than one chance.

Rubrics are almost exclusively built for mid range Bolter fire

Scarabs are very similar with a very strong option which I think lacked in our lists and might be even more sorely missed in 8th- anti vehicle missiles at S8 D2. (It appears so far we have no killer beams, or spammable Heretech)

Havoc, Obliterators, Land Raider, Predators, Forgefiends or should I just say our Heavy Support section. As much as I like TS fluff selection we can't fight with one hand behind our back.

Rubrics have a 2 plus IF you're not hit with a D2 or better weapon

Scarabs always start with a 2 plus regardless of of damage value

That's a benefit not many other people have which stacks with cover and re-rolls. They are sturdy against small arms fire as they should. If dont like it or think it's...thats just like your opinion man.

Rubrics will be hard pressed to survive or deal any significant damage in CC

Scarabs will actually make a lot of CC armies second guess their approach.

Yes. This is my #sorrynotsorry moment. Rubrics dont belong in combat. SO Termis most likely do.

Not trying to be antagonistic if I have come off that way.

The points for the units were derived from Sons post preceding mine. I find most of your counter arguments don't actually dispute what I'm saying at all so I really don't disagree with most of your points. For instance, I agree the Rubric All is Dust is a great stackable ability, however it doesn't change what I said. And I agree Rubrics don't belong in CC, but a cost comparison does not care about fluff. I also agree tanks or anti tank stuff will be necessary, however with Scarab missiles and splifire, I'm afraid that's another clear notch for Scarabs.

 

Btw in7th edition I found the missiles almost frustrating. Split fire is going to be very good for a few armies... Especially Astra Militarum, but 1k can definitely use it well with missiles AND flamers.

If we disengage from combat we can't use psychic powers, right?

Okay. I did not know that. I guess there goes my theory of running and Psychic gunnin'.

[Raven1]

Falling back prevents advancing, charging and shooting for units without "fly." The leaked psychic page says nothing about falling back. I would say you can "run and smite"

 

SO Terminators are clearly better than rubrics no doubt. they will have a harder time holding objectives as its based on model count not unit type or wounds.

 

I suppose what I was trying to say i think Rubrics have a place in the game at some level and maybe they don't maybe it will be Tzaangors/cultists with SO Termis to back them up.

[Prot]

I don't mean to sound so negative on rubrics. I do really like them I just think they over cooked them a little bit.

 

I haven't mentioned something else I've been suspicious of and that's the battle shock tests. I think it appears that MSU is going to be best. So I was really hoping 5 rubrics got you the soul reaper. It also gets you more specs in smaller squads but maybe with the stream lining of psychics it doesn't really matter.