++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[Panzer]

So can we all agree they need to make army building rules just a tad more detailed? 

 

If we can just take all the stuff as troops whats the point of bloody keywords?!?!? 

 

It should be keyword by detachment or something. honestly. 

There is barely a point as of now. That's no secret tho. There will be more advantages of a more restricted army eventually. Like for example TSons specific stratagems, warlord traits, relics, FOCs, etc.

Those are things for a proper Codex and things to look forward to. The Index is just some quick and basic rules so we can already play with our armies without having to wait for a Codex release.

[Heliomanes]

Still wrong, buddy. You don't lose the rubrics as troops bonus by doing that. The units themselves has to be of the Thousand Sons legion, and if you choose them to be that, then they are troops. So you can take a HQ and pick Black Legion for him, and choose the Rubric unit to be Thousand Sons. If so, then they are troops, but they aren't affected by the "black legion only" bonuses from characters. That's it.

[Raven1]

If we can just take all the stuff as troops whats the point of bloody keywords?!?!?

 

keeping Taudar from being a thing, SM superfriends, Dark Angels leading Space Wolves. Right now it serves as one change to stop deathstars.

 

Right now the game is a lot like the begining 3rd edition except the stripped down rules are in indexes and the core rule book. Once faction books are released, I think keywords will have more meaning.

 

I see a lot of people on the B&C talking about choosing a faction keyword and basing their army on that. I dont think that's a thing. You just need at least one to match to make a battleforged list. Like I said I think this will change with faction books because we can expect a proper TS book where the only options included are the ones in the Army list.

[Panzer]

Still wrong, buddy. You don't lose the rubrics as troops bonus by doing that. The units themselves has to be of the Thousand Sons legion, and if you choose them to be that, then they are troops. So you can take a HQ and pick Black Legion for him, and choose the Rubric unit to be Thousand Sons. If so, then they are troops, but they aren't affected by the "black legion only" bonuses from characters. That's it.

Yeah okay I could see it working like that for the Rubric Marines.

That has nothing to do with how faction keywords themselves work but rather is a special thing about Rubric Marines (and similar units) so my understanding of the general way of how faction keywords work is just fine.

I simply assumed it's a rule that applies when you field a TSons detachment/army instead of seeing it as a unit specific rule.

[Heliomanes]

Anyway, I think people are seriously underestimating what we can do with character buffs, and I think that this will be expanded upon in the future. For instance - we Thousand Sons are in a strange spot because we buff Thousand Son invuln saves by rerolling ones. We can't take Thousand Sons Chaos Lords, so we can't get their rerolls to hit for our Kson units - but we can build around our abilities by choosing units with high invuln saves. The leviathan dread is likely to have a 4++ save - giving him the ability to reroll 1s is fantastic, but this will require Magnus to take to the field.

SfPanzer: Yeah no worries, I thought the same thing initially. Takes a while to get used to 8th edition

[Archaeinox]

It's going to matter in a couple months by the time faction books and codex stuff starts popping up. I bet that it well.

[Panzer]

Definitely it will.

[Prot]

Oh it has to.... but that's down the road. For now if you don't want to use Magnus I think the generic Chaos stuff is plenty good and baring that, I do agree that Forgeworld will be a player in our armies succes.

[Paladin777]

Not to seem like a downer, but rerolling ones really only starts to get impressive when you hit 3+'s. Rerolling ones on a 5+ Raises your success chance from 33% to 38.9%, and 4+'s increases from 50% to 58.3% on something that's situational anyway.

[Heliomanes]

Rerolling ones on a 3++ would make us pretty broken. We already have this bonus, so we should make sure we get the most out of it, even if you think the buff is insignificant.

[Panzer]

Not to seem like a downer, but rerolling ones really only starts to get impressive when you hit 3+'s. Rerolling ones on a 5+ Raises your success chance from 33% to 38.9%, and 4+'s increases from 50% to 58.3% on something that's situational anyway.

Having played some games with T'au who only have BS4+ now (unless you go that extra mile to try to get 5+ Markerlights on a unit lol) I have to say that re-rolls of 1s is gold.

Even more so with overcharged weapons but on regular shooting as well. At BS4+ your shooting is so unreliable that you are thankful for any help you get.

 

That being said Magnus is obviously a way more expensive investment than getting 1 Markerlight on some unit so if it's just for the re-roll of 1s then he's probably not worth it....luckily he can do more than that, no? :P

 

Also yes I realise I'm talking about hitting and not about saves, but chances to succeed are chances to succeed. ;)

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Has anyone been allowed to try 8th by GW's before buying? I'm honestly at the point of debating just waiting till they do GK/TS/SW codecci as atm the first two seem to be have gutted by 8th whilst almost every other faction seems to be in a far better place.
 

[MoGuy]

 

 

Has anyone been allowed to try 8th by GW's before buying? I'm honestly at the point of debating just waiting till they do GK/TS/SW codecci as atm the first two seem to be have gutted by 8th whilst almost every other faction seems to be in a far better place.

 

I feel you. The problem here is that Thousand Sons etc. are all just "sub cultures" of CSM. Thus other armies like my Ad Mech or Dark Eldar feel a lot more complete, as they have their own special rules, whereas our specific legions lack those army wide special rules. 

 

In the end I think it depends on how badly you want to play and how often you play in general. I personally want to be as active as I can with 8th edition so I'll buy my indexes (indices?) and play until I can buy the codices. After that I can still sell the Indexes on eBay or store them next to my 7th edition codices.

[Skallagoose]

Just focus on learning the rules as of right now.

I know currently im using Tsons units, but im also using Tzeentch Daemons as cheap chaff units (you totally need cheap chaff to prevent first turn charges).

We also dont have super strong anti-armor. I think we need to see what FW has to offer on that. I'd love to use my fellblade instead of magnus for a little bit as we await our own codex. 2 quad lascannons+Big cannon should be okay at taking out the big stuff + Infernal boltguns could be pretty awesome. Keyword "tzeentch" :)

[Archaeinox]

Game tonight vs. a friend who wanted to test list

 

TS (7+d3 Command Points, got 10)

-Ahriman on foot

-Fateweaver

-Exalted Sorcerer on Disc

-Exalted Sorcerer on Disc

-Exalted Sorcerer on Disc

-5 Scarabs w/ Hellfyre Missile Rack

-10 Rubrics w/ Soulreaper and 2 Warpflamers

-10 Rubrics w/ Soulreaper and 2 Warpflamers

-Brimstone Bubble Wrap for Ahriman (1 Pink, 10ish Brimstones)

-5 Screamers

-3 Flamers

 

Sallies, best I can remember

-Vulkan in Drop Pod w/ 5 Multi Melta Devs

-30 some-odd tactical marines w/ flamer, combi flamer and Missile Launcher

-5 TH/SS Termies

-5 Tactical Termies with Assault Cannon

-5 Assault Marines

-Captain

-Librarian

-A few odds and ends I can't remember, but they died like tacticals.. Sternguard maybe?

 

Not much to really say, I made some dumb mistakes like not pulling the 3 flamers out of combat with Vulkan so I could rapid fire him with the Scarabs when they arrived, and I charged Ahriman into Vulkan but he used the counter-attack to swing first... Owchies

 

Other than those silly mistakes, everything else worked fine. He needs transports and maybe centurions. 

 

This time, I recorded the damage Smite caused for the sake of showing folks on FB. 

 

Turn 1: 8 Mortal Wounds

Turn 2: 8 Mortal Wounds (including 2 from Infernal Gaze)

Turn 3: 4 Mortal Wounds (including 1 from Infernal Gaze)

Turn 4: 10 Mortal Wounds (including 2 from Infernal Gaze)

Turn 5: game

 

Because of the lack of heavy weapons, I ended up shooting the Rubrics at far away targets sitting on Objectives. Once the nearby Salamander units the Rubrics ignored up close got a turn to shoot, only the missile launcher prevented me from taking the 2+ saves on Rubrics.. if it hit

 

Yeah so I still think Hordes are our main problems. I still have no idea how to take the Tyranid player on, but Space Marine lists need some serious help against us. Like Primarch level help.

[Plaguecaster]

A Hellforged Deredero depending on point cost (as well as any legion or warpsmith restrictions it has ) could be a good choice for anti horde as they can dish out quite a bit of firepower, so can't wait to see their stats :D

[Heliomanes]

If the deredeo keeps the ability to buff nearby invuln saves, it could become incredibly potent for us. With the "all is dust" rule, a deredeo and an exalted sorcerer nearby, we'd get 3+ invuln saves on our rubricae and scarab occult, with rerollable 1s.

[Archaeinox]

If the deredeo keeps the ability to buff nearby invuln saves, it could become incredibly potent for us. With the "all is dust" rule, a deredeo and an exalted sorcerer nearby, we'd get 3+ invuln saves on our rubricae and scarab occult, with rerollable 1s.

 

hhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggh

[Prot]

Game tonight vs. a friend who wanted to test list

 

Sallies, best I can remember

-Vulkan in Drop Pod w/ 5 Multi Melta Devs

-30 some-odd tactical marines w/ flamer, combi flamer and Missile Launcher

-5 TH/SS Termies

-5 Tactical Termies with Assault Cannon

-5 Assault Marines

-Captain

-Librarian

-A few odds and ends I can't remember, but they died like tacticals.. Sternguard maybe?

 

Yeah so I still think Hordes are our main problems. I still have no idea how to take the Tyranid player on, but Space Marine lists need some serious help against us. Like Primarch level help.

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way but I would love to play a vanilla marine list. It's not very common here.

 

I have agreed since day one that hordes (specifically) Orks and Tyranids, but as you saw I found almost no use in All is Dust vs. T'au... Tau whatever the heck they're called. This also makes me think Astra players will be coming out of the closet soon-ish. (I know of 2 myself). I will be very interested to see that match up as well. :)

 

I'm glad you're having so much success with Mortal wounding.

[Sonoftherubric21]

But Prot;  How is it possible that you cant get much use out of "all is dust" against a horde army?  I would imagine if something like Hordes becomes very popular that we would hold up very well (at least statistically), Makes up for relatively low-ish numbers. 

I got slammed with about 70-80 ork Boy attacks a turn, ended up losing 1-2 rubricae a turn.....Last edition? that wouldve been an immediate steamroll and loss for the Rubrics.  At least this time we live to swing and disengage if we can. 

 

For Tau I am sure they have ludicrous amounts of D3 damage weapons or 2/3d weapons so that makes perfect sense.  Though I would also imagine their armor vanishes with our AP -2 weaponry spam. 

[Prot]

I think all is Dust will be great against hordes. I think our numbers will be an issue. You have to understand the sheer numbers, and speed an Ork list can take to the table will probably be a big challenge. It appears the more 'elite' and army is, the more it plays into our wheelhouse. Just my opinion of course.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I think all is Dust will be great against hordes. I think our numbers will be an issue. You have to understand the sheer numbers, and speed an Ork list can take to the table will probably be a big challenge. It appears the more 'elite' and army is, the more it plays into our wheelhouse. Just my opinion of course.

 

I definitely agree with that! 

 

After facing 95 orks in a 1000 point game....I feel that, I can TASTE that. 

 

Its incredibly hard at low points levels to deal with that.  Though we last far longer then many other "elite" armies in that situation. 

 

At 1500-2000 we obviously get more tools, and I dont think we will see orks with 300+ models on the table for simple pragmatic reasons lol.  

 

Although I am still very happy with how the Rubricae perform. There's literally nothing in the game I am currently aware of that I would hesitate to chuck them at (by "chuck" I mean trudge up the board slowly....lol!)  I have seen them beaten by terminators of several varieties with fists, and now hit by a huge surge of 60 orks.........and they are stead-fast dust bunnies. 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I really shoudln;t be tempted to trya lis of just rubrics and Ahriman :P

[GreenPlasma]

How do Chainsword + Pistol Tzaangors hold up against Boyz, anyone tried using them in significant numbers?

 

The extra shooting and extra CC attack seems like it ought to help them out.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I really shoudln;t be tempted to trya lis of just rubrics and Ahriman

 

My 1500; 

 

Magnus

2 Exalted Sorcerer HQ's

12 rubricae (reaper)

12 rubricae (reaper)

11 Rubricae (reaper) 

coming to 1466, play around with the remaining points. 

 

alternatively; drop down the rubricae so you have 100 extra points; third HQ is Changeling, use that as a buffer for Magnus to protect Magnus against the massed AT fire that will target him (at -1 to hit due to changelings locus of Transmog) 

 

hilarious list, Not necessarily "competitive" but in most settings its a ludicrously hard list to remove, with accurate reaper/bolter fire. 

 

Obviously magnus in 1500 is rough as its a small game for 8th.  better in 2k!